Poll: Skyrim: The Armour complaint.

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WorldFree55

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RhombusHatesYou said:
JNA17 said:
No game is perfect and free of bugs. We all know that. And the same will happen to this game as well. We got that straight. I'm just saying compared to the predecessors and the Fallout Series, it will be a lot less annoying.
Until I've spent a few hours playing Skyrim I refuse to use words like 'can' and 'will'. Everything you're saying should hold true, certainly, but I've been a PC gamer for far, far too long to get excited over 'shoulds'.
I'm only making an assumption, and what i feel that is a pretty safe one at that. But nothing is 100% in life so you definitly have the right to feel that way certainly.
 

WorldFree55

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MrMrAwesom said:
mad825 said:
There will be a mod that will undo this *starts praying*

Anyway, the problem is the same with nearly everything these days, Less options means simplifying (streamlining) but does also mean less customisation.

customisation is good in a game like TES as it is one of it's main features of the franchise.
No there won't (sort of)
I bet they'll have DLC & remove any way of modding stuff easily. Then go to congress (or what have you) to try to pass a law that cheat codes & mods in all games especially ones with no online interaction will be punishable by the equivalent of being a drug lord, or somewhere along the lines of possessing 15 pounds of meth.
That's a little...extreme don't you think? Heh.
 

Kahunaburger

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Ragsnstitches said:
Kahunaburger said:
Ragsnstitches said:
Restricting movement options *is* restricting the world, because it's cutting into exploration. I don't play Elder Scrolls games for their awesome scripted sequences and cool dungeon layouts, because they don't have either of those. "Have fun, but only the way we want you to" is the opposite of how they should be designing games. They should stop pretending to be something they aren't, and embrace the open-world design.
The reverse is also true if not more so. Making areas specifically designed to exploit levitation or super jumps (a la morrowind), handicaps players who have not invested time in buying potions or learning the necessary skills. The world is physically restricted to them.

Meanwhile, in Oblivion, you could climb the highest peaks in the game on foot.

What they DID in oblivion was make all paths traversable by any class. What they did in Morrowind, was cut you off at every corner if you chose the wrong skill set (levitation and the like, bypassing most obstructions, which hampered the adventures for some).

If they were to implement something like levitation, it would have to fit a design philosophy that stresses equal access for all players... it wouldn't get love you seem to want. There would be no worthwhile location that would benefit levitating... unless you're OCD and MUST get on top of that temples spire.

EDIT: What they could do, but it isn't going to happen, is make it a shout... so all players get it.
Should locked treasure chests be open to players who didn't invest in lockpicking or alteration? (But for what it's worth, I agree with you. It's more a "levitation is an example of a fun way to explore the world" thing than a "make stuff only accessible via levitation plz" thing.)
 

Kahunaburger

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JNA17 said:
Kahunaburger said:
Ragsnstitches said:
Restricting movement options *is* restricting the world, because it's cutting into exploration.
Restricting movement options? Your able to run in the game instead of starting out like a turtle or being forced to just walk a lot like in Morrowind. I'm assuming when you say restricting movement options means removing Athletics (again, a pointless skill) when your going to run at good speed anyway.
No, I'm talking about levitation/jumping across continents/slowfalling and stuff like that - you wouldn't think those things play a huge role in what makes Morrowind work, but you really miss them in Oblivion.
 

WorldFree55

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Kahunaburger said:
JNA17 said:
Kahunaburger said:
Ragsnstitches said:
Restricting movement options *is* restricting the world, because it's cutting into exploration.
Restricting movement options? Your able to run in the game instead of starting out like a turtle or being forced to just walk a lot like in Morrowind. I'm assuming when you say restricting movement options means removing Athletics (again, a pointless skill) when your going to run at good speed anyway.
No, I'm talking about levitation/jumping across continents/slowfalling and stuff like that - you wouldn't think those things play a huge role in what makes Morrowind work, but you really miss them in Oblivion.
I won't lie levitation was fun as hell in Morrowind and i was kind of sad it wasn't there in Oblivion but it wasn't close to game breaking by any means especially since we had fast travel instead. Who knows, with the dragon shouts we can acquire, you could possibly shout your way all across tamriel XD.
 

Kahunaburger

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Ragsnstitches said:
EDIT: What they could do, but it isn't going to happen, is make it a shout... so all players get it.
JNA17 said:
with the dragon shouts we can acquire, you could possibly shout your way all across tamriel XD.
Make it happen, Behtesada/modders :)
 

WorldFree55

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Kahunaburger said:
Ragsnstitches said:
EDIT: What they could do, but it isn't going to happen, is make it a shout... so all players get it.
JNA17 said:
with the dragon shouts we can acquire, you could possibly shout your way all across tamriel XD.
Make it happen, Behtesada/modders :)
Yeah if it's not in the official game, then I'm sure the modding community will have a ball making up some pretty awesome dragon shouts.

It probably won't happen but if there's a slight possibility, maybe fly on a Dragon? But that of itself is a pipe dream XD.
 

otakon17

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Soviet Heavy said:
It's because of the crippling fear of Streamlining. To RPG players, that word is comparable to the Holocaust nowadays.
I feel that way actually on SOME things. But in this case, Skyrim, it doesn't matter. However, "Streamlining" if you asked me made ME 2 a little less enjoyable than it could have been, and destroyed Fable 3's chances for being the definitive game in the series. I won't state examples for that would artificially lengthen this post to absurd Wall Of Text levels. But, no it doesn't matter in Skyrim to me. I always looked the the best gear to wear, and only really started collecting gear after I beat the game.
 

ChupathingyX

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I think we all know the answer to this levitation issue.

Bethesda only need to do one thing, and one thing only...

...Scrolls of Icarian Flight.

And at the same time they need to bring back the "Slow Fall" spells.
 

MrMrAwesom

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no just over emphasizing how much the game industry is greedy & are taking away mods for flimsy overpriced DLC
 

6_Qubed

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evilthecat said:
6_Qubed said:
Meaning no disrespect, but to Hell with balance. Just because a game gives me the potential to break it in half with a well-placed infinite loop of effects doesn't mean I will, but I still want the option all the same. I may not use an item duplication bug to drown a city in watermelons, but I want the option. I may not "beat the game in 8 minutes" with a speed-run, but I want the option. I may never again use an alchemy exploit to put as many attributes as I can up in the billions, but I want the option. And on-topic, I may never commit the grave sin of wearing nothing but pants, but I want the option.
See.. I think you've missed the point of a role playing game.

A roleplaying game is based in a simple premise. Choice -> Consequence. This is what creates immersion, this is what lets you believe for a short period that you are a mighty sword or spell swinging hero and not a loser at a keyboard piloting a collection of well-textured numbers by remote control.

In an immersion-based game, you generally begin with a wide range of choices. The wider the better. In essence, you are defining a persona from nothing, so breadth here is important. The immersion in such a game stems, ultimately, from watching your character affect the world, and in turn how those choices affect your character, either mechanically or in terms of narrative. Ultimately, as your character does more and more, the world should affected by their actions and certain choices becoming foreclosed. Your rogue character cannot specialize as a wizard, your evil character carries the consequences of his evil actions. By the time the game ends, both your character and the world have been shaped by the experience. You know that your character is a noble hero, a vicious bastard, an indecisive prick or anything else he or she might be based on the choices they have made throughout the game.

A game which simply offers you choices without significant consequence, which is just a meaningless collection of options stacked together, is not a roleplaying game. If anything, it's a creativity tool. That's not an insult, people like creativity tools, but Morrowind isn't a very good one.
No consequences? Okay see, your saying that is actually my fault, because I didn't tell the other half of my fun experience with Alchemy in Morrowind.

In this playthrough, I was Bluesummer, a Breton mage. (I was still a teenager back then, of course I named her after an anime character, and of course she was female.) I had, by the time I discovered the Fortify Intelligence infinite loop exploit, long since discovered and used the Corprus exploit to give my character a few hundred extra strength, and I thought I had truly discovered something. I was such an amateur. I used the loop to boost my intelligence to Somewhere Roughly Up in the Billions (henceforth referred to as "SRUB" because I'm gonna end up using it a lot, and you don't want to read that phrase over and over any more than I want to write it over and over) I decided to work on some of my other stats. Strength was the first one, followed by Agility, Constitution, and I think Wisdom. I tried SRUBing Speed, but that didn't work out for reasons I'll go into later. So after SRUBing up my stats, I decided to take my new physical god for a test run. I leave town and engage the first animal I come across, which I remember to be a rat, but I'm pretty sure it was some species that had typically taken a few whacks to put down. I bring out my trust Daedric katana, enchanted to Damage Health and Soultrap on hit ('cuz I love me some Soultrap) and I take a swing at the beasty. Sure enough, it dies in one swing, and it's soul is mine. However, I'm now looking at my fists. This is weird. I check my inventory, and my sword is still there, sure enough, but its weapon HP is completely wiped out. Pretty soon I realized why; normally, when you deal damage to a creature with a weapon, it deals a fraction of that damage back to your weapon. I had just dealt SRUB damage to something, and my sword (which only had a few thousand HP) had been dealt a fraction of SRUB damage as a result. Long story short, (too late,) there wasn't a weapon in the game world that m I wouldn't break from the sheer physical power I now possessed. So I did what anyone else would do when they drunk something that had disagreed with them; I slept it off. At least, I tried to. I found a room in an out-of-the-way inn somewhere, aimed my character at the bed, and slept for approximately a year and a half, game-time. However, while my first Fortify Intelligence potions wore off, with their durations of mere thousands of seconds, all the potions with SRUB durations never did, even considering that their durations were measured in seconds. I had functionally infinite power, a SRUB in a world not truly meant for hundreds, and through oversight I hadn't turned off the autosave function before my 1.5 year-long hibernation.

I was stuck this way. The game had been permanently changed for me.

My first thought turned to Summoned weapons. Well, I broke the first (and last) Bound Sword I summoned, and it never left my inventory. I then turned to Hand-to-Hand, figuring that with my tremendous Strength I should be able to punch demons to death easily. Unfortunately, the H2H skill was governed by Speed, not Strength. So, I whipped up a Fortify Speed potion and tried it out. My first tenative steps forward, and I found myself in a blank, gray void. I had run through the world, the ground of which had not been designed to withstand the onslaught of feet pounding into it at SRUB miles per second. Well, at least this time I saved beforehand. I then turned to a frankly silly alternate method; daggers. I immediately went to every town witha weapon/general store, and bought up every magical/silver dagger I could lay hands on. Holding them all was no problem, as I could carry SRUB pounds without encumbrance. I should also mention that with SRUB Agility, no creature could hope to beat me in melee combat, so I was only wearing armor for purely aesthetic reasons, and not much armor at that. I had also had a spellmaker develop a suite of spells that were, frankly, unfair. My attack spells had maximum radius, maximum damage, maximum duration, and soultrap just because. Sure, they cost a few hundred thousand mana to cast, but I now had SRUB mana, so I never even felt the effort. One encounter with a spell-reflecting daedra taught me, however, that SRUB Constitution did not work the way I thought it would. I had leveled up twice since my ascension, but my total HP remained a mere few hundred, an insult to one such as I. I created a spell that not only Fortified health to the maximum, (I had given Alchemy a wide berth by this point,) but also healed it to the maximum, for the maximum duration. I had a few other defensive spells to stave of the very real threat of magical attack. (Yes, I had a 100% Chameleon spell. I may be slightly-mad impostor to divinity, but I'm not stupid.) Finally, just for kicks, a Fortify Speed/Jump/Waterwalk spell for travel. I usually took a fair chunk of falling damage on the way down from a jump, but my healing spell quickly repaired that damage.

Combat was, by this point, only tricky because my new fighting style depended on having at least one dagger per opponent, and quick-switching to a new dagger in mid combat, (yet another feature I missed in Oblivion,) and occasionally switching to spell combat (a feature I did not miss in Oblivion). Since combat was no thing anymore, my focus shifted to exploration of the game world, and the collection of any items I deemed useful, namely daggers, throwing weapons, and armoror's hammers. I had next to no skill in repair, but since it was governed by my immense Strength, I could repair most anything in a few swings, and with ample room to carry hammers, I did not want for attempts. Silver daggers were my preferred weapons, because they could hit supernatural creatures, and their soft metal was easy to repair. By this point I had found my way to the frozen northern island and that little pocket city that apparently existed inside an Argonian mage. And even considering the care I had to take around that "goddesses'" city not to destroy everyone around me with a misfired mass-destruction spell, I still found the whole experience much more enjoyable than that time that felt so long ago, when I thought playing around with leprous zombies was the most creative thing I could do to get an edge.

...

*hah* Whew, that was certainly a mouthful. Now tell me, Mr. The Cat, does that little tale truly sound like I don't appreciate consequences when I encounter them?
 

WorldFree55

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Xzi said:
JNA17 said:
Again, if you want to continue to just look at the removal of trivial features and go on a nerdrage about it when the game is 4+ months away from coming out AND continue to not look at the improvements being made for the itself, go ahead. The game is still going to be amazing of itself whether it is described as an RPG or not. It's still going to get 10 out of 10 reviews, GOTY awards, hell probably game of the decade awards later on, and so on, and wrongfully so. While a real small minority that is going to fully go away eventually (thank the maker) will go back into playing the same old systemed rpgs that have aged horribly nowadays.
I fixed it for you. Deus Ex: HR will deserve GOTY as RPGs go, and Skyrim will get it instead.

It's just too bad that bar has been set so low these days that sub-par is what passes for excellent now.
I'm so confused i didn't know you had a time machine? 0_0
 

busterkeatonrules

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The Woolly One said:
Ironic Pirate said:
Stall said:
Why doesn't Bethesda just drop the act and make Skyrim an action game? It's clear they don't give a shit about RPGs anymore. Can they just drop the pretense already and say they just want to make action games?
I agree. All real RPGs have the latest and most in-depth pants options available. I mean, Morrowind let you leave your fly open, and that came out years ago!
Saints Row the Third will be the greatest game ever:

you have the option of NO PANTS AT ALL. You can even choose NO UNDERWEAR.
And now you've got me wondering: What would an epic fantasy game such as Skyrim be like if the Saints Row crew were making it?
 

WorldFree55

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busterkeatonrules said:
The Woolly One said:
Ironic Pirate said:
Stall said:
Why doesn't Bethesda just drop the act and make Skyrim an action game? It's clear they don't give a shit about RPGs anymore. Can they just drop the pretense already and say they just want to make action games?
I agree. All real RPGs have the latest and most in-depth pants options available. I mean, Morrowind let you leave your fly open, and that came out years ago!
Saints Row the Third will be the greatest game ever:

you have the option of NO PANTS AT ALL. You can even choose NO UNDERWEAR.
And now you've got me wondering: What would an epic fantasy game such as Skyrim be like if the Saints Row crew were making it?
It wouldn't be Skyrim then, or an elder scrolls game for that matter.

Can't wait for Saints Row the Third as well :D
 

banthesun

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thethingthatlurks said:
Stupid choice IMHO. It might be easier to design, but I like my options. And perhaps jumping around in nothing but leggings punching people, but that might just be little old inebriated me...
Only when I saw your post did I realise how much of a problem I had with this. These are indeed sad days for Elder Scrolls fans.
 

swansman

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I hope you guys and the people in Bethesda realize that a greave is armour for the shin and that a cuirass is more then just chest protection (it also consists of the back plate, the faulds and tassets). What gets me it that their is also spaulders or pauldrons which cover the shoulders, rerebrace which covers the upper arms, couters which is for the elbows, vambrace which covers the forearms, gauntlets which everyone here should know what they are, and that just covers the upper body.
Then you have the cuisse that covers the thigh, the polyns that cover the knees, greaves that cover the shin, and sabatons that cover the feet. What also grinds my gears is that developers think that studded armour is just rivets on leather. That is wrong, they were called coat of plates, or a brigandine. They had metal plates riveted on the inside of leather and was almost as good as full plate armour. I just wish more people would study armour at least a little bit.