Poll: To the anime haters

[axlryder]

If you dislike anime only for its artstyle you're really shallow.

I present you one of the worst characters designs ever. (Imo of course).

Spoiler

Characters looks so tall and slim.

Buut it still manages to be on of the greatest anime, according to a lot of sites, and me ^^

I honestly don't think that's true. Anime is mostly just entertainment. Thus it is designed to entertain and visually appeal to us. If one doesn't find it visually appealing, then they aren't going to easily enjoy it or get invested in it. There are some decent shows I've turned away from simply because the visuals didn't grab me. I don't think it makes me shallow, visuals are just very important to me. I think the same could be said of anyone else. Yes, some people are definitely close minded about the whole thing, but not all. Some people just really can't get into the visuals.

Also, what's that image of? The link doesn't work.

Fixed the link.

I still think it's shallow. As long as it has good characters and story with preferably a good soundtrack to set the mood, I don't mind that much if it has poor artwork.
Basically just as people say guys who judge a girl only based on look calling them shallow, I do the same for those who judge anime only based on artstyle.

Yes, but woman don't exist mainly for purpose of entertainment, unlike anime. I don't think the two are really parallel. Remember also that anime is a VISUAL medium. The visuals are integral to telling the story and conveying key things. It's not just some take-it-or-leave-it element. Calling them shallow seems unfair when visuals, in reality, are such an extremely important element to animation. Regardless, we probably won't see eye to eye on this, but whatever.

Also, yes, that's become a bit of a modern classic it would seem.

 

[Lorien077]

For the love of...

I'm a fan of good anime and manga, so I suppose I'm not the one you're asking. But I am an art nut, so I'm here to give you an obligated lecture of sorts.

If you're going to draw a manga its a huge investment, and you should take the time to figure out your own style. The only thing really consistent with anime is that its fairly stylized, to some extent. What you should be asking yourself is 'how do I want to stylize human and possibly animal anatomy?' Not 'what do other people want'. Otherwise drawing this is going to be like pulling teeth. I once did a commission in a different style from my own, just one out of desperation. It was a large eyed monstrosity, because that's what someone else wanted. Do you want to spend the whole time trying to emulate someone else's style?

Don't get me wrong, you can learn a lot by looking at how other people stylize, but you need to figure out your own version, and learn good solid realistic anatomy first. For example lets look at the Hellsing anime. (This is the part where I get lynched). Both the original and the new OVA are abominations when it comes to anatomy. Arms bend the wrong way for no reason, characters look wrong even within the stylization (I'm looking at you police girl!) and just AUGH!

/end of rant (sorry)

 

[axlryder]

I think this thread is sort of pointless BTW. If someone doesn't like the anime "style" (if that even means anything) it just means they don't like how the characters are drawn and if they don't like how the characters are drawn, they don't like looking at drawings of asian people. The only feature that remains constant throughout most of anime is that the characters are asian looking.

Make the characters look non-asian, end of story. In any case, it won't necessarily improve the anime, it will probably make it worse truth said.

Asian, lol. Spike Speagal looks perhaps, vaguely Asian. Gutz looks European. Jostaro doesn't really look Asian either. The drawing above that I just did doesn't really look Asian either (again, vaguely asian with flat brow ridge and whatnot), but it's still anime. Vagabond and Shamo characters, on the other hand, look far more Asian. There are MANY anime styles, many of which mix ethnic features. The fact that most anime characters entirely lack the epicanthal folds, black hair, flatter noses and yellow skin you tend to see in Eastern Asians (often opting for the exact opposite) just makes them look less Asian in the eyes of Westerners. Anime has never really encapsulated one race (or reality, for that matter). The problem is not so simple as "make them look non-Asian". Most people who look at anime often don't actually think of an Asian person. No, it would seem people don't like anime's visual style because it looks like anime. That seems to be about it. The thread is not pointless, it's gathering input from different people about what they like and don't like. I've gotten a couple of good responses, thus the thread was useful. There you go.

 

[axlryder]

For the love of...

I'm a fan of good anime and manga, so I suppose I'm not the one you're asking. But I am an art nut, so I'm here to give you an obligated lecture of sorts.

If you're going to draw a manga its a huge investment, and you should take the time to figure out your own style. The only thing really consistent with anime is that its fairly stylized, to some extent. What you should be asking yourself is 'how do I want to stylize human and possibly animal anatomy?' Not 'what do other people want'. Otherwise drawing this is going to be like pulling teeth. I once did a commission in a different style from my own, just one out of desperation. It was a large eyed monstrosity, because that's what someone else wanted. Do you want to spend the whole time trying to emulate someone else's style?

Don't get me wrong, you can learn a lot by looking at how other people stylize, but you need to figure out your own version, and learn good solid realistic anatomy first. For example lets look at the Hellsing anime. (This is the part where I get lynched). Both the original and the new OVA are abominations when it comes to anatomy. Arms bend the wrong way for no reason, characters look wrong even within the stylization (I'm looking at you police girl!) and just AUGH!

/end of rant (sorry)

a.) I'm animating an anime, not drawing a manga

b.) I'm more than well aware of the investments involved, given I've animated professionally for a couple of years now

c.) it's not about emulating someone else's style, it's about eliminating the features many find distasteful. However, most of the ones listed here are rooted in shonen tropes so they won't really be a problem

d.)I can draw however I want, because I have the experience and understanding to do so. That's really the bottom line. The Hellsing anime had lots of crazy bad anatomy, yes,(the manga wasn't much better), that doesn't matter much because normal people don't know or care. They just think it's cool. It had an interesting art design and that's what I was highlighting.

 

[axlryder]

I think this thread is sort of pointless BTW. If someone doesn't like the anime "style" (if that even means anything) it just means they don't like how the characters are drawn and if they don't like how the characters are drawn, they don't like looking at drawings of asian people. The only feature that remains constant throughout most of anime is that the characters are asian looking.

Make the characters look non-asian, end of story. In any case, it won't necessarily improve the anime, it will probably make it worse truth said.

Asian, lol. Spike Speagal looks perhaps, vaguely Asian. Gutz looks European. Jostaro doesn't really look Asian either. The drawing above that I just did doesn't really look Asian either (again, vaguely asian with flat brow ridge and whatnot), but it's still anime. Vagabond and Shamo characters, on the other hand, look far more Asian. There are MANY anime styles, many of which mix ethnic features. The fact that most anime characters entirely lack the epicanthal folds, black hair, flatter noses and yellow skin you tend to see in Eastern Asians (often opting for the exact opposite) just makes them look less Asian in the eyes of Westerners. Anime has never really encapsulated one race (or reality, for that matter). The problem is not so simple as "make them look non-Asian". Most people who look at anime often don't actually think of an Asian person. No, it would seem people don't like anime's visual style because it looks like anime. That seems to be about it. The thread is not pointless, it's gathering input from different people about what they like and don't like. I've gotten a couple of good responses, thus the thread was useful. There you go.

But "looks like anime" to me means things like:

- Big, round eyes

asians don't have big round eyes, more so the opposite. Just models, and that's a more recent popularity trend. The eyes started with Disney, it wasn't taken from Asian people.

- Triangular cheek bones

true for shonen, but the characters in the anime I mentioned don't really have asian skulls. They're far more European in structure. Spike looks about half Asian.

- Flat faces

same as above, spike is shown to have a deep brow ridge and protruding nose with a longer face and more European jaw, same as Gutz and Jostar (there are others too)

- Small, difficult to see noses from the front.

Asians have broad, flat noses that are very visible around the nostrils. Anime characters are the opposite, with the noses being very petite and upturned at every angle. This is a common feature in models however, so we can chalk it up to being an ideal, since I don't ever remember large noses being depicted as attractive in Asian culture

- Silly hair

vague point. Asians don't naturally have multicolored hair, so probably not a very strong one either.

Those are all features taken from asian people.

not really, though anime characters definitely have some stereotypically Asian characteristics on the whole, the styles are varied, some having characters that look very Asian and some with characters that look straight up European.

Take away that and it wouldn't really be anime IMO.

you'd be wrong

Obviously, IMO Jojo's Bizarre Adventure doesn't look like anime . It just looks like the Justcie League with the camp and homoerotic factors cranked up to 11.

I just stopped taking you seriously.

 

[Coldster]

I don't usually watch anime, but when I do, its Cowboy Bebop. Probably the only anime show I watch anymore. Not that I don't like the other styles, I just don't like the animes themselves.

 

[Macgyvercas]

You know whose work I like?

Spoiler: This guy's

His movies are freaking awesome. I also like his use of what I have chosen to call "scenery porn".

 

[Snowbell]

I'm a big anime fan anyway, but I have to say I'm really not keen on Studio Ghibli's style of anime, out of those photos only that one and JoJo's Bizarre Adventure have art styles that would put me off slightly.

Also, is this poll/thread aimed at men? I see a noted lack of any female-aimed anime styles.

 

[omega 616]

I would like it more if it was a little more realistic, the crazy hair and adorable eyes are just a little off putting. Another thing, what the fuck is with the pointy chins? Seems 95% of anime people have an upside down egg for a head.

Lets just take your examples: the woman's head is almost the same size as an entire person ...

The guy with the white hair, who has hair like that? Also the guy in the sword, being all cute and what not.

The guy is the same colour as the wall and the dog has no face.

This is a perfect example! Who wears a hat like that? I can forgive the eyes 'cos anime seems to revolve around a magical thing (from what I know, which is very little). The other guy/girl has the hair I was talking about (it's either like that or crazy Yugi Mutou spikes).

Pointy chins and crazy hair, the girl is a bit of an exception though.

The last one is a little more acceptable but he looks like a camp M. Bison ...

Lastly, I can't speak Mandarin, Japanese or Chinese and listening to it is like listening to static so I like dubs ... which seems to be like the opening to die hard 2, with Bruce Willis wearing that sandwich board in a black neighborhood.

I would much rather straight listen to English than try to read the text, listen to (what sounds to me like) gibberish and watch the action or scene ... it is like reading a book, listening to white noise and watching a film.

I don't care how good or bad the voice acting may be, it's still a damn site better to me than subs.

That's why I still haven't seen what the fuck happens to Aizen in Bleach, I know he dies 'cos the hero always wins. I think the last one I saw Ulquiorra had just found out what a sunbathing vampire feels like.

 

[Fappy]

I like pretty much all of them but Gantz... but maybe I have a bias considering Gantz hurt my brain to read.

 

[Fetzenfisch]

besides most of them looking the very same;
Champloo was the very only show i watched volunteerily and if i remember correctly you didnt chose the best picture to represent it here, i switched in the first episode one night and kept watching for a few weeks. Keep the stile as close to realism as possible. no freakishly overdone cheesy artificial "coolness". Take your time for detail. Keep the characters down on human level. If they are supposed to be TEH BESTEST at what they are doing, they can achieve what a experienced professional in reality can. Strong guys arent twice as big and broad as others and throw cars around. Fast guys dont run over a forest's treetops.
Most important: We dont want Ubercool "iwannabethatguy" characters. we arent 12 anymore. we want a great story. One that isnt obvious or flat. It needs time to untangle and develope. Characters need to develop, they need to change with their experience, grow on the inside, not becoming blonde and letting planets explode.


A few weeks ago my new GF gave me MONSTER, i watched the first episode so far. Thats the drawing stile i can live with. And the pace of the story seemed right also so far. I didnt watch more of it, for i really need to get into the story to watch such a series, but i wouldnt consider watching more if at all it was any little bit less in detail in realism.

 

[Wintermoot]

you know that there is WAAAAAY more then this right?

 

[hazabaza1]

Lets just take your examples: the woman's head is almost the same size as an entire person ...

Being a demon tends to do that to you.

welp, I did a quick sketch after reading through this thread again, just to see if I could make something that wouldn't make non-anime fans vomit on sight while still retaining that anime aesthetic.

Spoiler

crappy anatomy aside, thoughts?

Not too fond of the bits coming out of his eyebrows. Otherwise it looks fine.

 

[Sinclair Solutions]

The styles, to me, seem very similar, with the exception of Miyazaki, whose style I've always loved. He really knows how to have flowing and dramatic imagery. Though, I have always been turned off by his faces. They are always so placid and lacking in detail, almost like a doll. This similarity of styles, however, is something I don't like about anime when compared to Western art. Anime may have some slight differences between styles, but they still look almost too similar like the same person drew them, but with some small modifications.

But no, I am not a fan of anime, merely due to cultural differences. I grew up watching Western animation and that is what familiar to me. I also don't like how most of the characters look the same. Girls are always too skinny, and the eyes are always way too big. I don't like the "mouth flaps" because, as shown in the constant Abridged series on Youtube, one can dub over anything. I know it's so they can translate it into different languages, but to me, I've always just felt like it was animation without effort.

I also don't like the voice acting. I've heard some shows have good voice acting, but the ones I have watched (Ghost in the Shell movie, a bit of DBZ), the voice acting was cringe worthy.

Also, from the very little anime that I have watched, I dislike the tropes involved in it, particularly with women. An anime that I watched recently for a class was the famous movie "A Ghost in the Shell." In this movie, the main character is a robot who has the power to turn invisible...but only when she is completely naked. To me, that seems unnecessary and like pandering to the masses of people who supposedly watch anime, sort of like how Miranda in ME2 and the camera angles focused solely on her EXTREMELY detailed derriere were pandering to the people who played games. I found it insulting to women and insulting to me for being so blatantly pandered to. Or maybe this is just the cultural divide. I admit that I am too ignorant to know. The little bits of anime that I have watched have only turned me further away from it. It's just not for me, but if you do like it, I have no problem with it.

 

[Chemical Alia]

You know how you can look at something and tell that it anime? That's what I don't like about it. Anime does just about everything I dislike in visual art/character design, and that's not even bringing up the common awful tropes.