Poll: What if you were forced into military?

[Fingerprint]

Go to the medical with a head full of mescaline and acid - no one in their right mind would conscript you.

Otherwise I'd go for the combat support as a medic.

 

[Ushario]

Well since western military has become prety foolproof because of satelite imaging, survivalist and martial arts training, airstrikes, etc. i would go in frontlines since i have less of a chance to get shot in western military than eastern military (US miltary coalition has less than 5000 deaths estimate) and also even if i did die i get an awesome grave on a sweet meadow. Besides the emerging superpowers have too much dependance on each other to really start a war(but this doesnt mean they wont find a reason). And America stomps on countries before they become too much of a threat to them. I mean they would of probably invaded australia now if we didnt give them our Uranium.

Get the hell out of my country. I would have a rant at you, but its a waste of time.

 

[IrrelevantTangent]

I'll flee to Canada as fast as I can, taking as much possessions/money with me as possible. They can't touch me there. And besides, Skynet was firm on the whole 'no-killing-humans-besides-the-Connors-thing.' Okay, overused running gag dropped now.

 

[cptjack42]

Combat support. Curse my pacifism!

 

[Aardvark Soup]

Civilian service, Afghanistan doesn't seem a very happy place to me and I'm not a very big fan of the army anyway. But to go to jail for my principles... nah. And this way I'd still be able to continue my study. If civil service wouldn't be a possible option I'd probably emigrate to Belgium, Germany or England.

 

[Delicious]

Long range combat?

Hmm...

1) Far away from people shooting at me.
2) Equipped with something that could presumably do a bit of damage.
3) It's easier, psychologically speaking, to kill from a distance.
4) If using valuable equipment, my commanders will have extra incentive to keep out of harms way.

Neat!

 

[Iron Mal]

I'd opt for the frontline stuff. I'm there for the shortest time but if things go tits up and I'm shot to hell...at least it will look cool (I'd have to go down 'Hudson' style).

 

[sadpolice]

Long range combat, i like snipers >.<

 

[Ignignokt]

I'd run around strafing and getting headshots with a .50 hur hur!

 

[ORLOFT]

I did read the OP but I'm afraid you may have missed my point. The whole purpose of my reply was to state three things:

1)If the cause were just, I wouldn't need to be drafted because I would volunteer. Given your other assumptions it wouldn't be a jump for you to assume volunteering would include training.

2)It is not cowardice to refuse to kill just because you are told to do so.

3)There is a moral objection, but it is not with killing. The moral objection is being forced to kill. If you are going to kill another person, or even be part of the killing in an indirect role, it is important that you willingly agree to do so.

You speak of fighting for freedom, but a draft takes those freedoms away, and you cannot preserve freedom by restricting or eliminating it. Also, you mention illegal orders and not following them. This is a mute point entirely as I was speaking not of the military itself, but of the government which controls it. Moreover, being that the OP does not speak as to the justice of the upcoming possible conflict, I don't think it is fair to assume one way or another as to whether or not it would be a just cause. This is why I replied to both possibilities.

You speak of people jumping to cynicism... we're talking about WAR. You don't have to jump to cynicism, you're standing it in. War is what happens when things have gone wrong, and even when the cause is just, the outcome is ugly. It is never a good thing, though I'll admit it is necessary from time to time.

First thing first, my hat off for an intelligent and formed response. As for your arguments:

1.You clarify your earlier post saying you will volunteer but I still see a problem here, you say you will volunteer when you feel the need is just, however in order to be prepared you need to train now, before the actual need even presents itself. Thats what I meant by lacking in sight, you can't say "I'll volunteer" only when you feel like it, you train now for the fight later.

2. True, but I don't think I ever stated the opposite.

3. "You speak of fighting for freedom, but a draft takes those freedoms away, and you cannot preserve freedom by restricting or eliminating it." I completely disagree. Completely. It is necessary for freedom to be restricted in order to have freedom, absolutely. You might think of this as an oxymoron but it isn't. freedom without law is nothing, and law is the restriction of freedom. Absolute freedom only works if you are the only living thing. When there even two people, freedom must be restricted and controlled so that both people would have the maximum possible freedom for both, but no more.

"we're talking about WAR" No, we're not. And this is major. We are talking about preparing for a war. A trained and ready army most important function is that of deterrent. A preventing force against war. If game theory can teach us anything is that we must show at all time the fact that we will defend ourselves if attacked, while at no time attacking without need.

I appreciate your respect and respectful disagreement and clarification. It's nice to know you can still debate on the internet without childish bickering. That being said, I am afraid there is more debate to be had:

1) The conflict in question is on the horizon, but that does not mean that you cannot be sure of its justice. Moreover, training does not cease once a conflict begins. They are always training new forces, so I don't think it is fair to assume that volunteering late is the same as not volunteering at all.

2) Of course you didn't, not directly anyhow. That was part of my post which was to someone that seemed to think that following orders made one's existence meaningful.

3) "Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither." -Benjamin Franklin. Laws do not restrict freedoms, they preserve them. They keep us from infringing upon the freedoms of others. Those laws do not take away our freedoms as we have no right to steal from or kill one another When they overstep their bounds (i.e. the patriot act), they are unjust and should be fought against.

A well trained army has not been a deterrent for war sense The Bomb dropped in Hiroshima. Now when a conflict arises it comes down to who is willing to drop the next one. Moreover, avoiding the reinstatement of the draft in no way implies that we will not fight. Our military is there for that purpose.

 

[MSG_Klemer]

Where's the "Surrender the instant the enemy attack" option?

What are you, Fre... Okay, that's too easy.

I'm allergic and I have high blood pressure. Which is ironic, because I could easily be a sniper thanks to my aim.

There is a lot more to sniping than that. With an attitude like that I doubt you would last long in the training.

Yeah, I know there's required a lot of patience, cold blood, sure finger... But even a normal infantry soldier requires that. Sniper is more needy, of course.

That's why I said "thanks to my aim". Other things, like having to control one's emotions (and not firing at a terrorist by an accident...), might he a bit harder.

Can you do complicated trigonometry equations in your mind in seconds? After several days lying prone in a muddy ditch awake and not being able to move?

Would you be able to not move a muscle for days at a time, except to piss and shit (in a bag, while still lying prone)?

About math - probably. I prefer trigonometry to logarythms. But honestly? All you have to do is take a correction based on wind (small) distance (a bit bigger) and fire. It's not like you will be often shooting from 1,5km.

About the second - yeah. I'm quite good at still meditation. You know, where you sit in a silent darkness, with eyes closed shut and you are completely immobile for 30 minutes. Your body hurts like hell, but then you have to get up after 30 minutes.

You don't want to know how much THAT hurts. If you do, you understand. Besides, lying IS easier than sitting straight with legs crossed and hands on your knees.

I have to reply.

http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/training_closeup/sniperschool.htm

Just a small article on it.

Some more information:

When a sniper takes a shot, there are countless variables to consider before squeezing the trigger --- wind speed, wind direction, range, target movement, mirage, light source, temperature, barometric pressure, and that's just the beginning. The work that goes into getting a good position to take a shot is immense. That's why snipers always work in pairs.

Thats just the target interdiction part of it.

Needed requirements are able to identify equipment, small arms, armor, etc. By sight and sound.

Might sound a bit easy, but alas US Army Sniper School failure rate is roughly 67%.

Failure reasons:
1) Too much movement while on target interdiction. Spiders, ants, full bladder, etc.
2) Not being able to identify precise enemy equipment, can only have one no-go on the tests to pass. Out of Identification there is 5 written tests, as well as 4 "hands on" tests
3) Psychological failure, meaning not mental issues, but the breaking point of when your 4days in the dirt without water, movement, hunger, etc.
4) Math failure, processing 10 to 15 complex math problems while timed. Hopefully soon to be sniper teams, need to be within 6inches of the target, and be able to identify a letter on a piece of paper at various ranges. From 50meters to 1000meters. Various letter sizes, card sizes, etc.

If you think you can do it all on the fly, try it out. Most of all determination is what makes a pass or fail. You try it out, and you will have more ant bites, crusty feet, and a hunger for food than you ever felt, next to going through SERE's.

 

[Abedeus]

Where's the "Surrender the instant the enemy attack" option?

What are you, Fre... Okay, that's too easy.

I'm allergic and I have high blood pressure. Which is ironic, because I could easily be a sniper thanks to my aim.

There is a lot more to sniping than that. With an attitude like that I doubt you would last long in the training.

Yeah, I know there's required a lot of patience, cold blood, sure finger... But even a normal infantry soldier requires that. Sniper is more needy, of course.

That's why I said "thanks to my aim". Other things, like having to control one's emotions (and not firing at a terrorist by an accident...), might he a bit harder.

Can you do complicated trigonometry equations in your mind in seconds? After several days lying prone in a muddy ditch awake and not being able to move?

Would you be able to not move a muscle for days at a time, except to piss and shit (in a bag, while still lying prone)?

About math - probably. I prefer trigonometry to logarythms. But honestly? All you have to do is take a correction based on wind (small) distance (a bit bigger) and fire. It's not like you will be often shooting from 1,5km.

About the second - yeah. I'm quite good at still meditation. You know, where you sit in a silent darkness, with eyes closed shut and you are completely immobile for 30 minutes. Your body hurts like hell, but then you have to get up after 30 minutes.

You don't want to know how much THAT hurts. If you do, you understand. Besides, lying IS easier than sitting straight with legs crossed and hands on your knees.

I have to reply.

http://www.tradoc.army.mil/pao/training_closeup/sniperschool.htm

Just a small article on it.

Some more information:

When a sniper takes a shot, there are countless variables to consider before squeezing the trigger --- wind speed, wind direction, range, target movement, mirage, light source, temperature, barometric pressure, and that's just the beginning. The work that goes into getting a good position to take a shot is immense. That's why snipers always work in pairs.

Thats just the target interdiction part of it.

Needed requirements are able to identify equipment, small arms, armor, etc. By sight and sound.

Might sound a bit easy, but alas US Army Sniper School failure rate is roughly 67%.

Failure reasons:
1) Too much movement while on target interdiction. Spiders, ants, full bladder, etc.
2) Not being able to identify precise enemy equipment, can only have one no-go on the tests to pass. Out of Identification there is 5 written tests, as well as 4 "hands on" tests
3) Psychological failure, meaning not mental issues, but the breaking point of when your 4days in the dirt without water, movement, hunger, etc.
4) Math failure, processing 10 to 15 complex math problems while timed. Hopefully soon to be sniper teams, need to be within 6inches of the target, and be able to identify a letter on a piece of paper at various ranges. From 50meters to 1000meters. Various letter sizes, card sizes, etc.

If you think you can do it all on the fly, try it out. Most of all determination is what makes a pass or fail. You try it out, and you will have more ant bites, crusty feet, and a hunger for food than you ever felt, next to going through SERE's.

Thanks for the article, gotta read it later (it's fifteen to midnight...), guess it might be harder to become a sniper than I originally thought.

Still, not likely I'd go and sign up. Like I said, medical conditions (for now) make it impossible for me to join the army, but I guess I would have to take off my glasses to shoot anyway. Don't get me wrong, I have a good sight and reflexes, but I have a small genetic defect, roughly around -2dpi on my left eye and a mere -0,75 on my right eye (I use it for scopes, so I'd generally have only 0,75). Guess then I'd have to settle for a long-range soldier.

But hey, those camouflage suits look cool.

 

[Steelfists]

Where's the "Surrender the instant the enemy attack" option?

What are you, Fre... Okay, that's too easy.

I'm allergic and I have high blood pressure. Which is ironic, because I could easily be a sniper thanks to my aim.

There is a lot more to sniping than that. With an attitude like that I doubt you would last long in the training.

Yeah, I know there's required a lot of patience, cold blood, sure finger... But even a normal infantry soldier requires that. Sniper is more needy, of course.

That's why I said "thanks to my aim". Other things, like having to control one's emotions (and not firing at a terrorist by an accident...), might he a bit harder.

Can you do complicated trigonometry equations in your mind in seconds? After several days lying prone in a muddy ditch awake and not being able to move?

Would you be able to not move a muscle for days at a time, except to piss and shit (in a bag, while still lying prone)?

About math - probably. I prefer trigonometry to logarythms. But honestly? All you have to do is take a correction based on wind (small) distance (a bit bigger) and fire. It's not like you will be often shooting from 1,5km.

About the second - yeah. I'm quite good at still meditation. You know, where you sit in a silent darkness, with eyes closed shut and you are completely immobile for 30 minutes. Your body hurts like hell, but then you have to get up after 30 minutes.

You don't want to know how much THAT hurts. If you do, you understand. Besides, lying IS easier than sitting straight with legs crossed and hands on your knees.

But that is all secondary to your defecation technique.

 

[Rooster Cogburn]

I am an American. I am owned by my government, but by birthright I shouldn't be. I hope I would resist.

 

[angryscotsman93]

Naval Construction Battalion officer, bitches!

... Well, that's what I'd do. I love the idea of combat engineers like the SeaBees- roll inot an objective point, set some explosives or do whatever needs to be done, and get back to base- all while fighting through,just like everyone else. Not only that, but you also get to really contribute to the lives of the people in the country you're in, by building schools, bridges, hospitals, etc. In fact, if I join the military (*cough* yes I will!), I'm gonna join the SeaBees or the Marine Corps- either one.

 

[Shycte]

Sweden haven't been in a war in over two hundred years. Pussy-ass goverment FTW!

I guess I would obey and that shit. It's the law after all.

 

[angryscotsman93]

I am an American. I am owned by my government, but by birthright I shouldn't be. I hope I would resist.

Well think of it this way, Cogburn, me boyo: yes- our country does not own us, we own our country. However, at the same time, as the sole owners of our nation, its resources, and our manifest destiny, we sacrifice at least some of what we have so that our country remains... Well, remains OURS. You can't just sit back and expect everything to work out: every person in a country needs to do whatever they can to help out, as opposed to just bitching about every single tax increase that happens, then demanding a witch hunt when the government slashes funding for services that, due to losing that tax increase, can no longer be paid for.

That said, the idea of forced military service, especially at a time like this, is an incredibly unconstitutional idea. To force an American citizen to lose their life in a war-zone is a truly terrible concept. Besides, there are some people who just can't fight- they may be physically fit, but emotionally unprepared for service. One need look no further than the court-martial of Private Edward Slovik, U.S. Army, for evidence of that. The man was conscripted for military service in WW2, despite repeated statements that he was emotionally unfit for duty. Eventually he deserted, hoping to get a prison sentence and beign able to go home after that.

They executed Eddie Slovik as an example to other deserters. He has been the last American to be executed for desertion in a time of war ever since.

As they say, you can't make a wolf out of a sheep.

 

[Ripshot]

I'd show up, they wouldnt let me pass their psychologic and psysical tests anyway.

There's always Bad Company

haha oh me

on topic, 18 months of a paid and guaranteed job just making things like guns, tanks, probably packaging supplies, etc.

yeah I could live with that

also, for the people saying they would be a medic, you do know it's more than running around throwing health packs right?

Spoiler

you kind of have to be a semi-surgeon

but hey if you're dandy with that then go for it

 

[PersianLlama]

Whatever they think I could do the most good in, its what I did when I was drafted for real.

It disappoints me to see such a low level of courage here sometimes, either you fight or someone else has to fight for you. We all die eventually, better to live a shorter life of meaning then twenty more years as a coward which serves nothing but himself.

Or humans could just not fight.

 

[Sronpop]

Damn I meant to pick Frontline, feck. Id love to be frontline, wanna shoot some bastards, all my fps training should come in handy. Works well in painball, lol.