Poll: What's your opinion on Loli and Lolicon?

[Baron von Blitztank]

Is it too late to say "Everyone is loli for Etna?"

Spoiler

In my opinion, it is a fetish that I don't consider as peadophilia (admittedly, aslong as the images aren't perverted or at least justified). People are into what they are into, just let them be.

 

[NeutralDrow]

...wow. This thing went for this long?

I notice that for once the "eh, not my thing, but doesn't hurt anyone," "it's all right by me, there's a big difference between it and the real life equivalent" crowds managed to get in ahead of the "evil, burn it and castrate the consumers" crowd. I thought this thread was surprisingly neutral when I went to bed.

> implying it could ever be anything else than pedophilia to be attracted to underage girls.

>> implying that anime drawings bear more than vague resemblance to people.

 

[Custard_Angel]

I consider it pedophilic as loli images are typically sexualised depictions of young girls. I can't see how someone could be a casual fan of this sort of thing without harbouring deeper desires.

 

[thenumberthirteen]

I don't see it the same as Child Pornography like some people do, but it is quite close. I place it under my list of "to each their own" stuff.

 

[The Lunatic]

As far as I'm concerned it's Paedophilia.

 

[Azure Sky]

Oh what a strange little thread I have stumbled upon. (Yes, there is a terrible pun in there somewhere)

OT:
As for what 'most' lolicon is, (you know the kind) it is quite 'meh' and uninteresting.
But for the minority that actually use it as a genuine form of art rather than sexual perversion, you would be quite amazed by some of the works of art that can/have been made.

In short: Tasteful = good. Poor taste = bad. =3

 

[Steppin Razor]

Yes, I'd imagine that there are lot of sub-genres and genre-mix, but since none of them are conceptually inherent in the term of "lolicon" (which would be ecchi/hentai with characters in the "loli" art style, I believe?), I can hardly assess anyone who (only) labels themselves lolicons on more than that.

The rape thing - which I've heard before should be surprisingly common - is of course (to me even) more disgusting, but since the same objective arguments really apply to it, I can't really ethically condemn that one either. The idea of underage-looking characters being raped is however incredibly repulsive and sickening to me though, far more so than some "idealized" Anime fantasy world idea of them somehow being interested in having consensual sex with each other could ever be, questionable as I find it. I have no doubt my assessment of person would subjectively suffer greatly if they admitted to enjoying that kind of sub-genre rape stuff, also because it's considerably closer to how real-world molestation takes place. Even a harm principle idealist like me can only be so liberal...

Yeah, lolicon is pretty much just the sexualisation of the loli art style. Most of what I actually look at is just plain, old loli art as like I said, the vast majority of lolicon is hardcore rape. As much as I love anime, manga, JRPGs and all the other various things I enjoy that come from Japan, there's just something...different...about their culture that results in drawings of girls around the ages of 8-12 being raped by large numbers of people.

Of course, even the most disturbing and hardcore of lolicon has nothing on what is mentioned just below:

Todlercon on the other hand, is just disgusting no matter how I look at it. Nude children that young is bad enough. But when you add sexual acts involved with toddlers, that's just disgusting to me. I just can't see the appeal anyone could have in sexual acts with a child that hasn't even come close to starting to develop on that level.

I've only met a few toddlercons in my life, but those people seem to confuse toddlercon for "true loli".

You've actually met toddlercons before?
*shudder*
Whilst I disapprove of sexualised rape in any format and think it's more than a little bit wrong, especially in lolicon, I don't really condemn people for liking it. I draw the line at toddlercon, though.
Seriously, the fuck is wrong with some people. Even the people I've encountered that love the most hardcore of hardcore lolicon rape with tentacles and bestiality etc think that there's something wrong with people that enjoy toddlercon.

 

[child of lileth]

Todlercon on the other hand, is just disgusting no matter how I look at it. Nude children that young is bad enough. But when you add sexual acts involved with toddlers, that's just disgusting to me. I just can't see the appeal anyone could have in sexual acts with a child that hasn't even come close to starting to develop on that level.

I've only met a few toddlercons in my life, but those people seem to confuse toddlercon for "true loli".

You've actually met toddlercons before?
*shudder*
Whilst I disapprove of sexualised rape in any format and think it's more than a little bit wrong, especially in lolicon, I don't really condemn people for liking it. I draw the line at toddlercon, though.
Seriously, the fuck is wrong with some people. Even the people I've encountered that love the most hardcore of hardcore lolicon rape with tentacles and bestiality etc think that there's something wrong with people that enjoy toddlercon.

Yeah, I know a few from another forum. Most of them are pretty normal about it as a fetish, and just enjoy it as just another thing to see along with the other fetishes they like. But there was one guy that's obsessed with it. He's the one I was referring to as saying toddlercon is "the true definition of lolis". He refuses to believe anything can be called loli unless they are confirmed to be under 7-years-old, have a specific short height or under, and they can't have any kind of breast development. There was even a few H-games about that, that he was posting there. Like one where it was a very well made RPG for the genre, but it was all about toddlercon rape and torture with all kinds of monsters, tentacles, bestiality, and other things. And they had this whole intricate fatigue system set up, because they're so young and whatever. If it wasn't for it being toddlercon, it could have been an interest system for that type of game, but that fetish just made it disgusting. The preview pictures made it look like the extreme end of that kind of art too.

I know people are free to enjoy whatever they want, and if it's not hurting people, I really couldn't care less in most cases. But I just really can't understand how anyone can enjoy seeing those kinds of things done to young children, fictional or not. I just can't get past thinking of the realistic side of it. And especially with lolicon everywhere as something that would still be a way less disgusting alternative, it's just the kind of thing I can't see as anything but disturbing.

 

[Marik2]

Todlercon on the other hand, is just disgusting no matter how I look at it. Nude children that young is bad enough. But when you add sexual acts involved with toddlers, that's just disgusting to me. I just can't see the appeal anyone could have in sexual acts with a child that hasn't even come close to starting to develop on that level.

Yeah I agree with you 100%

When I read the definition I sorta barfed a little and the whole idea makes me cringe

I was all...

Spoiler

[HEADING=1] OMG WTF!!!?[/HEADING]

 

[Rabarberskurk]

> implying it could ever be anything else than pedophilia to be attracted to underage girls.

>> implying that anime drawings bear more than vague resemblance to people.

This.

People are into lolicon (and other genres of hentai) mainly because they are attracted by the artstyle(s). Lolicon can only be pedophilia if the artstyle makes an attempt at realism which --as many people probably know when it comes to hentai-- is very rare.

 

[Julianking93]

It's just an art style, no more fucked up than anything else in hentai. It's just a different form of it. While the depictions are of children or fully grown women who happen to look like children, it doesn't mean the person viewing or drawing is a pedophile.

As a fellow viewer of lolicon of both the normal and hentai variety, I second this. I may like the anime style depiction of girls/under developed women, but I find the sexualisation of actual young girls to be hideously repulsive and fervently hope that any pedophiles that act on their urges die horribly painful deaths. Preferably something that involves fire or chainsaws.

They're the ones leaving things in comments about how they've claimed to fuck their 6 year old sister or how much they wish the drawing was real.

And thank you for reminding me of stuff I try not to remember.
*shudder*
Bunch of sick, twisted fuckers in serious need of a beating.

Indeed, the real sexualization of actually girls is sick. I feel a bit torn when it comes to loli hentai involving girls specifically said to be 7 years old...

Still, yes real pedophiles need to be killed. How about raped by a flaming chainsaw?

And yes, it's what I'm here for. I remind people of horrid things they wish to forget they've seen on the internet ^-^

 

[Julianking93]

Oh here is the perfect thread for me...

OT, as someone who admittedly views lolicon hentai, I can't say that it equals perverse pedophiliac attractions.

It's just an art style, no more fucked up than anything else in hentai. It's just a different form of it. While the depictions are of children or fully grown women who happen to look like children, it doesn't mean the person viewing or drawing is a pedophile.

I think if you draw "grown women who happen to look like children" for sexual purposes you are drawing child porn and pretending it is something else to get around laws. I think if you enjoy that type of porn you are enjoying child porn while trying to fool yourself in to thinking you don't have pedo tendancies, but clearly you do.

It is not child porn. It is a different art style depicting underage girls.

Would you say a movie involving teen characters having sex is child porn? No, you wouldn't. It's a fucking drawing. Lighten up.

 

[Julianking93]

Still, yes real pedophiles need to be killed. How about raped by a flaming chainsaw?

And there we have it folks: prove of the fact that no matter how large your post number, you can still make idiotic senseless comments.

Did anyone ever say large post count equaled high intellect?

And I'm not trying to be smart here. It's just a silly comment.

Ease the fuck up.

 

[crepesack]

So I'm guessing the consensus is that it's okay, provided that the images are of animated or drawn characters and not involving scenario of rape or other dark mannered situations. Although I'm not sure I understand the argument against it. Some people may call it pedophilia but it would be rather arbitrary to delineate sexual readiness through age alone in my opinion. I have friends who are over 18 who get mistaken for middle schoolers.

 

[evilartist]

Though, while I say this, there are plenty of people who are pedophiles who view it as the only legal substitute for CP that they can find..

That may not last forever, though. I've heard that lawmakers are starting to arrest people for owning loli.

You are correct, there was a bust of this man's loli paraphernalia collection recently (within the last 2 years) and he was arrested and fined. His collection contained a vast number of eromanga and miscellaneous products. However the damning evidence was the manga's specification of underagedness.

This was in the United States, I'll have you.

I'm worried that this practice will extend into regular Mature-rated manga. In some of these novels, teenagers are depicted nude or lecherously for comic relief or fan service. In Bastard!! Tia is either 15 or 17 (depending on the story arc), and she is constantly being sexually pursued by Dark Schneider at awkward times (though it always ends with her kicking his ass). I think some lawmakers are starting to classify that as illegal material, too. If that were the case, I would be in deep shit.

Technically, what I described wasn't loli (loli = prepubescent), but minors are still minors in the eyes of these semi-zealous prosecutors, even though they're not real. A lot of mature mangas have content like that, and I'll be damned if I'm arrested and registered as a sex offender over something that's so ridiculously taken out of context.

 

[evilartist]

...fully grown women who happen to look like children...

I believe there is a term for that: 'moe' (I don't know how to do an accent mark, though)

 

[Steppin Razor]

Indeed, the real sexualization of actually girls is sick. I feel a bit torn when it comes to loli hentai involving girls specifically said to be 7 years old...

Still, yes real pedophiles need to be killed. How about raped by a flaming chainsaw?

And yes, it's what I'm here for. I remind people of horrid things they wish to forget they've seen on the internet ^-^

Ah yes, lolicon that specifically states their ages. I generally try to avoid stuff like that as it's usually pretty sub-par and seems a little too close to pedophilia for me. The moment the ages get stated and it's something like 7 or 8, I get the fuck out of there. There is absolutely no reason to give their ages whatsoever. It adds nothing to the art and only serves to draw in people that are attracted to young girls of that specific age rather than the art style.

Damn straight with a flaming chainsaw. Or maybe even a Twilight-themed flaming chainsaw for added insult.

Heh, my one weakness - the creepy comments of perverted sickos. Link me to ED's Offended page and I won't bat an eyelid. Direct me towards the downright disgusting comments of some people on lolicon pages and I feel the urge to hit something. And take a shower to get rid of the unclean feel after reading them.

 

[Julianking93]

Ah yes, lolicon that specifically states their ages. I generally try to avoid stuff like that as it's usually pretty sub-par and seems a little too close to pedophilia for me. The moment the ages get stated and it's something like 7 or 8, I get the fuck out of there. There is absolutely no reason to give their ages whatsoever. It adds nothing to the art and only serves to draw in people that are attracted to young girls of that specific age rather than the art style.

Damn straight with a flaming chainsaw. Or maybe even a Twilight-themed flaming chainsaw for added insult.

Heh, my one weakness - the creepy comments of perverted sickos. Link me to ED's Offended page and I won't bat an eyelid. Direct me towards the downright disgusting comments of some people on lolicon pages and I feel the urge to hit something. And take a shower to get rid of the unclean feel after reading them.

True. It doesn't add a thing but only brings the whole feel closer to pedophillia. Something I read the other day specifically said in the first page "Nekochan - Age 7 - Little Sister" and proceeded to show her sucking a giant cock. Yes, they had to add the brother/sister thing for more creepiness. I'm not sure if that was genuine loli from Japan or if it originated here but I'm not sure that I want to know.

Twilight themed? Wouldn't that just be....a flaming *wink wink* flaming chainsaw XD

You want to read shit like that? I can give you plenty of links. Nights spent googling where to find random hentai has brought me to places I don't want to know exist. Fu thing I get out of it however is that I can link other people to it just to freak 'em out