Poll: Who REALLY Destroyed Rapture?

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Jinx_Dragon

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Jan 19, 2009
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Ryan, for creating rapture to begin with.

For Rapture embraced the idea that the few at the top had full authority to stomp on the people below them. Human life was worthless, unless you had the strength or wealth. Even then it wasn't that your life was worth something, it was that you could easily squash the life of another that made you 'respected.' Such a society can not survive in the long run. That is what a lot of of the worshipers of the ideals rapture embraced, and yes they exist in the world today, need to realise: A world of 'might makes right' will always lead to violent revolution as the have nots demand their rightful share.

Rightful share it would be too, not parasitic like the propaganda wanted upper class people to believe. Consider the simple fact those upper class had sweet lives of minimal work and minimal input into the continued existence of the city and ask yourself: who really is the parasites? Everyone who sweated and bled to keep the city fuctioning where kept 'in their place' with no method to advance no matter how much they bled or suffered for the city. These people had a boot to the head the entire life, they where slaves for Ryan's wet dreams of 'libertarianism' and no amount of skill or ability would ever allow them to break out of the 'class' they where born/shanghaied into.

It is the whole reality that faces us many times throughout history and even to this date. A reality of the haves refusing to share with the have nots, not because the have nots are lazy bums but because the haves believe they are, through birth alone, entitled to everything. Skill, ability and dedication mean squat in a world where you will get only the crumbs the upper class drop from their high tables.

Plasmids where then added to the mix, giving these down trotted a way to strike back and force the haves to give them the rightful share and... vola, revolt and ruin for the city of rapture quickly followed. But no, even in the ruins the rulers of the city want you to believe it was because Ryan went 'bad' and became a dictator. While he was at fault it isn't because he over stepped his authority. No, he is at fault because he always was 'bad' and refused to face reality to the point he made his own nation and then ran it into the ground trying to chase a ridiculous idea.

It is his fault because his dream was never sustainable in the first place!

Plasmids just sped up the process, what normally takes decades to come to pass in these situations only took years. The common person had a weapon at their fingertips which could be used so easily against their oppressors. So unlike riots in the past, where they had to first make the machines to make the guns they where already handed a loaded weapon by the ignorant ruling class who, little more then metaphorically, sold them the rope to hand them with.

Wow... don't know exactly where that came from but accurate I feel. Hell even the plasmid adds could be summed up as "kill those that piss you off, with this new plasmid!" It was as if the upper classes where just begging for their own re-creation of the French revolution.
 

loremazd

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Dec 20, 2008
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Ryan. His idealism has so many flaws, and he couldn't bring himself to understand them. People say he compromised his ideals and if he hadn't then things would be peachy, but the ideals themselves were flawed. Fontaine and Lamb simply made problems that already existed work into their favor, but Ryan created the problem.

The only way a system like rapture could possibly have worked is if the people who didn't "make it" were sent to the surface or killed. Andrew Ryan somehow expected the problem of the poor and unsuccessful to magically disappear someday.

Animals, and humans don't actually work in terms of survival of the fittest. They work in terms of survival. Humans are simply one of the few creatures of this world that are intelligent enough that the weaker can work together to survive.
 

Hawgh

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Gravity, the unfeeling whore.

Supported by her muscleman, Osmosis.
 

maddawg IAJI

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Feb 12, 2009
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I gotta say Tenebaum. Her discovery of ADAM turned people into druggies who became obsessed with the stuff. If she never discovered it, the civil wars may not have taken place.
 

Nomanslander

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Feb 21, 2009
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Both games have so many plot holes I honestly stopped caring.

The mood/atmosphere/sentimental values are the only reasons I love this IP.

Let me know when Bioware purchases the IP, then I'll have giant terminators under water to worry about...lol
 

Jaranja

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Axolotl said:
Ryan, Fonmtaine only did what Ryan's philosophy dictated he should do, he was exactly what Ryan wanted people in Rapture to be.
You're absolutely correct here.

Ryan made Rapture. The fact that Rapture would always descend into civil war and death is natural. I think it was Ryan that destroyed it, simply by creating it.
 

Jaranja

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Nomanslander said:
Both games have so many plot holes I honestly stopped caring.

The mood/atmosphere/sentimental values are the only reasons I love this IP.

Let me know when Bioware purchases the IP, then I'll have giant terminators under water to worry about...lol
Thanks for not even going near the actually topic of this thread.
 

Disaster Button

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Feb 18, 2009
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Although Tennanbaum discovered ADAM without pressure from Ryan it would never have become the commodity it was which caused the genetic arms race which Rapture kinda got in the middle of. So Ryan.
 

Nomanslander

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Jaranja said:
Nomanslander said:
Both games have so many plot holes I honestly stopped caring.

The mood/atmosphere/sentimental values are the only reasons I love this IP.

Let me know when Bioware purchases the IP, then I'll have giant terminators under water to worry about...lol
Thanks for not even going near the actually topic of this thread.
Ok...?

Frank.....he was the prime figure opposing Ryan under the shadows, he was the criminal element that was able to monopolize the system Ryan had established to favor the strong...he's what lead to the decadence that utterly destroyed Rapture with the fascination of Adam and the drug like effect it had on people.

Don't get me wrong the back story is actually pretty good...=/
 

Kanodin0

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Mar 2, 2010
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I agree with pretty much everything Jinx_Dragon said and the only thing I have to add to it is that even without Plasmids the lower classes would have revolted. Consider that in the libertarian ideal of Rapture Ryan had no choice but to sell guns to the poor that they would plan to use against him, Fontaine only made those weapons cheaper.

Slightly tangential but I love that the Citizen armament stations (can't remember the exact name but they upgraded your weapons) were made by Fontaine and were completely free, which flew in the face of Ryan's ideals but those same ideals meant he could do nothing to stop Fontaine from giving them out for free.
 

Xanadu84

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Every bad thing that happened was made possible by Ryans philosophy. In fact, every bad thing was more or less guaranteed to happen thanks to the shortcomings in Ryans philosophy.
 

Jaranja

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Jul 16, 2009
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Nomanslander said:
Jaranja said:
Nomanslander said:
Both games have so many plot holes I honestly stopped caring.

The mood/atmosphere/sentimental values are the only reasons I love this IP.

Let me know when Bioware purchases the IP, then I'll have giant terminators under water to worry about...lol
Thanks for not even going near the actually topic of this thread.
Ok...?

Frank.....he was the prime figure opposing Ryan under the shadows, he was the criminal element that was able to monopolize the system Ryan had established to favor the strong...he's what lead to the decadence that utterly destroyed Rapture with the fascination of Adam and the drug like effect it had on people.

Don't get me wrong the back story is actually pretty good...=/
That's much better.

It's a fair view point. I don't think ADAM was the reason for it's destruction but it was more of a catalyst. The fact that human nature dictates that whenever we are put in an unfamiliar place, we'll try to gather as much power as we can. ADAM gave people more power.
 

toadking07

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Sep 10, 2009
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I feel like the whole place was doomed from the beginning. Whether in real life or in the game, it was just kinda destined to fail, there's a reason we have laws and government, even if they are messed up. Once people realize they can do anything they want and get away with it, you can't expect them to listen to any rules or moral code at all.
 

Gabanuka

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Oct 1, 2009
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I did.

OT: I think it was doomed to fail, under water cites will never work people!
 

probunk

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Nov 12, 2009
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Kryzantine said:
Ryan. His idea was that people could come to Rapture to get away from political bullshit, economic nonsense, and the issues of morality. Sure enough, those were the reasons they came. They wanted and Ryan gave them total freedom, until he started taking it away systematically soon afterwords. He created the hypocrisy that ultimately drove Rapture to turn on itself.

The fact we can argue about this and get multiple rationales just goes to show how good Bioshock was.
Absolutely. Ryan's ause of his power lead to increasing discomfort and tension, which could have been avoided with a truly free market with no restrictions (ie allow anything, rather than creat a underground market for smugglers).
 

wrightry

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Feb 22, 2009
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If anyone it was Ryan but not for abusing his power. He promised a Randian utopia where everyone would benefit for their industrial genius, artistic talent or scientific discoveries. Every citizen of Rapture believed that they would live a life of luxury since this was promised to them by a man who had enough of a god complex to essentially self proclaim himself the second messiah. When people were given working class jobs (garbage men, plumbers, ect.) this crushed them to the point where they were susceptible to manipulation from a socialist manipulator like Fonatain. There is no one individual responsible for the fall of Rapture. It's the fault of the human ego.
 

Blatherscythe

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Oct 14, 2009
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Frank Fontaine, he made Ryan become parinoid and played upon Ryans fears to try and take control of Rapture. Tenenbaum was funded by Fontaine, so without him there would be no ADAM and no mutated populace. Lets not forget that Jack was controlled by Fontaine throughout Bioshock, so Jack was acting in Fontaines interests for most of the game. Finally Sophia Lamb was merely a scavanger, trying to make her communist/socialist ideals take hold in Rapture and in turn taking it over. Fontaine destroyed Rapture because God or no God, laws or no laws, money or no money Fontaine would only be satisfied by absolute power.

Also Rapture had two types of people hard pysical workers and scientific geniuses. Problem with Rapture is that there's always someone who has to scrub the toilets, this is what Fontiane used to his advantage. Rapture was a pure capitalist society (the corporations run everything) with no social programs, Fontaines orphanage and home for the poor added those programs to Rapture (hell he even set up vending machines dispensing weapons and plasmids). Eventually his "army" rebelled against Ryan and his supporters, thus causing the civil war. Jack was merely a plan to get Fontaine out of Rapture with its secrets (he wanted to world, not just Rapture).

Fontiane and Lamb have three things in common. One, they sowed seeds of discontent in Rapture to better their political standing, and two, they both wanted to control everything. Three, they both instigated the conflict that tore Rapture apart.