Poll: Who REALLY Destroyed Rapture?

[De Ronneman]

Though Fontaine brought religion to rapture, the reason people took up religion was because of Ryan's original flaws. If Ryan hadn't abused his power over the city, he would've never had to compete with religion.
Also, the fact he tried to use violence to stop religion, thereby starting the downfall himself.

 

[Spiner909]

Ryan, he brought down his own city by becoming what he feared: a tyrant.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

-snip-

-also snip-

Okay, I'ma try to replay to both of you with this one.

You know... this is what I was trying to say just in better words to say it. The only reason I now seem so far to the other extreme is because he is jumping up and down and yelling 'your communistic' as he really can not support a greed is good policy. All I have done, if one reads my post once more with this understanding, is pointing out Ryans system was flawed from the get go because it was so unsustainable. That he tried to wish away all the negative aspects of human greed and keep just the positive ones and no man can wish away human nature...

No matter how wealthy he is.

 

[squidbuddy99]

Though Fontaine brought religion to rapture, the reason people took up religion was because of Ryan's original flaws. If Ryan hadn't abused his power over the city, he would've never had to compete with religion.
Also, the fact he tried to use violence to stop religion, thereby starting the downfall himself.

The reason Frank introduced religion is because of the immence power of destruction it has on people. He used it to unite the people to one mindset and create religious mania. I wouldnt be surprized if he edited the bibles he smuggled to make his followers even more unstable. Also, the 'ideal government' cannot exist. Socialism spreads the wealth too thin, and Capitalism gives way to greed.

 

[Maibus]

Rapture IS under the ocean... Godzilla. Yep, Godzilla did it. No but seriously, I like Bioshock, but if I had to say who destroyed Rapture I'd have to say the splicers... who literally destroyed Rapture.

 

[Blatherscythe]

Fontaine destroyed Rapture because God or no God, laws or no laws, money or no money Fontaine would only be satisfied by absolute power.

But that is the philosophy that Objectivism demands be followed, Fontaine is the Objectivist ideal.

Most citizens in Rapure (even Ryan) wanted freedom and money. Rapture was a society based on hard work, intelligence and your own independance and freedom to own what you earned. Not handouts and government/religious control

How does that relate to what I said?

Fontaine wanted complete control, the type of people Ryan was expecting were hard-workers and intelectuals who put in their fair share of work be it physical or mental. Fontaine was am manipulative, power greedy asshole not satisfied with the wealth and freedom he recieved from Rapture.

 

[Grigori361]

All I have to say this is, Armies build empires, but to deal with the people that your empire is dependent upon to survive, you need diplomacy.

None of the fools were able to compromise or work WITH the others, to a common goal, EVER, I'm not saying communal living is a good thing, or bad thing, my point is just that the nature of any given situation, is flexible, in order to control or even survive that situation, you need to be equally adaptable to change.

They were not, they were found.... what is the phrase.... oh yes, evolutionarily lacking.

To go into some small detail, Andrew Ryan was unwilling to acknowledge how integral to his society the poor were, they were just as necessary as those on the top, as he well learned the hard way.

Frank Fontaine on the other had was a fool as well, he failed to understand just how important the "big" people are, the ... "power brokers" as it were are to human well being, not to be a dick, but people rise or fall in society for REASONS, and one must accept that reality, or face the consequences. Frank couldn't accept that obviously. As to the rest of them, they all had a part, in the case of lamb maybe a Big part, but by now I think you get the idea.

I for one am not big on holding people's hands through their understanding.

 

[Grigori361]

Though Fontaine brought religion to rapture, the reason people took up religion was because of Ryan's original flaws. If Ryan hadn't abused his power over the city, he would've never had to compete with religion.
Also, the fact he tried to use violence to stop religion, thereby starting the downfall himself.

The reason Frank introduced religion is because of the immence power of destruction it has on people. He used it to unite the people to one mindset and create religious mania. I wouldnt be surprized if he edited the bibles he smuggled to make his followers even more unstable. Also, the 'ideal government' cannot exist. Socialism spreads the wealth too thin, and Capitalism gives way to greed.

I'd agree, the only answer is to marry the two.... survival makes from strange bedfellows does it not?

 

[Berserker119]

the splicers, maybe?

 

[Phoenixlight]

I chose other because I honestly don't know since it was so long ago that I played the original bioshock.

 

[turbo4400]

Sofia Lamb.
It was her manipulation that fueled the rebelion against Ryan.

That's not what happened, Lamb came back to rapture after Jack had killed Ryan and took over, she had nothing to do with actually killing him or Fontaine's rebellion

 

[jthm]

Really, it's all of them except Tenenbaum and Jack. Neither had any control over what others did with their actions or creations. Ryan and Fontaine are the chief responsible parties, Lamb might have been, had she not been incarcerated. In a way, she kept Ryan's eye on her while Fontaine built his empire, so she could be argued to be responsible in that regard too.

 

[Mark Hall]

i think is was the ideals in the first place. but fontaine and ryan sure didnt help with the whole civil war thing.

 

[Axolotl]

Fontaine wanted complete control, the type of people Ryan was expecting were hard-workers and intelectuals who put in their fair share of work be it physical or mental.

No, Ryan wanted people who aspired to greatness. What you're saying is communist philosophy not objectvist.

Fontaine was am manipulative, power greedy asshole not satisfied with the wealth and freedom he recieved from Rapture.

And that differs from Ryan how?

Fontaine is all of Ryan's ideal but simply better than Ryan.

 

[The Shade]

Fontaine, for spearheading the plasmid business. The splicers destroyed Rapture, and Fontaine opened the door for them.

Damn you, Atlas! Damn you to hell...

 

[The_State]

"The perfect economical world outlined by Ryan would have been a symbiosis. The industrialist would benefit from their employees' labor, and the employee would benefit from the industrialist's vision to create work and ability to pay their wage. That didn't happen. At one point, the guy "in charge" decided to take advantage of the guys underneath instead of making sure his employees were happy and working proficiently, since it paid off a little better in the short run."

That is Rapture. Everything is about choice. No one forces the workers to work, and as more technology is developed, prices will fall, and wages will rise. Ryan only used tyrannical practices to fight Fontaine, not out of lust for power.

That was Rapture, yes. And Rapture failed because of it. I don't see how you're contributing to the argument with this. Fontaine never would have had the people or resources he did if the people were happy with their lot. If the industrialists would've treated their employees fairly, instead of taking advantage of them, they would have remained happy. (I realize that there is no backing for that last statement, we don't know that the employees were treated badly, but it is safe to assume, based on how things tend to work with laissez faire capitalism, no matter the experiment size.)

 

[archvile93]

It doesn't matter. Ryan's dream was doomed from the start.

 

[Lemon Of Life]

Rapture was a society that was doomed to fail. I mean, Ryan didn't even have a police force.

 

[Nikajo]

I feel like the whole place was doomed from the beginning. Whether in real life or in the game, it was just kinda destined to fail, there's a reason we have laws and government, even if they are messed up. Once people realize they can do anything they want and get away with it, you can't expect them to listen to any rules or moral code at all.

Pretty much this. Rapture destroyed itself because that's human nature. It would've happened without Adam, it's non Tenenbaum's fault for discovering it - scientists will always discover new things and it's not their fault that some people use those things for destruction. Fontaine and Lamb just gave it a nudge in the direction it was already heading. Andrew Ryan set the whole thing up to fail in the first place.

In a way they are all to blame in their own ways, including every citizen of Rapture who became overpowered by their lust for Adam. Doomed from the off-set...

 

[Jennacide]

Temebaum, without adam it would have been utopia.

This is incorrect. Fontaine's workers found the sea slugs, and Suchong was the first one to work with it. Tenebaum just perfected it. Adam would still be around, just not in such a highly distilled form.

Fontaine brought it's downfall obviously, he instigated the civil war at every turn, which is what ruined Rapture. To be more specific though it was captialism that brought it to it's knees, but that's a discussion for another day.