Poll: Who REALLY Destroyed Rapture?

[Blatherscythe]

Fontaine wanted complete control, the type of people Ryan was expecting were hard-workers and intelectuals who put in their fair share of work be it physical or mental.

No, Ryan wanted people who aspired to greatness. What you're saying is communist philosophy not objectvist.

Fontaine was am manipulative, power greedy asshole not satisfied with the wealth and freedom he recieved from Rapture.

And that differs from Ryan how?

Fontaine is all of Ryan's ideal but simply better than Ryan.

I meant hard workers who put their fair share of work in for their fair share of pay, it was a completly capitalist society that frowned upon those that demanded a hand-out. Let's not forget, Ryan built Rapture to be free of government and God, Fontaine took advantage of this and broke the few laws Rapture had to gain power. Ryan was content with wealth, freedom and some power, Fontaine wanted to control everything.

 

[TheSeventhLoneWolf]

If it wasn't created it would never have been destroyed,

 

[Axolotl]

I meant hard workers who put their fair share of work in for their fair share of pay, it was a completly capitalist society that frowned upon those that demanded a hand-out.

But Fontaine never asked for a handout, Fontaine used the same methodology as Ryan to build his wealth. He was simply more successful tan everyone else meaningt he oputcompeted everyone else, including Ryan.

Let's not forget, Ryan built Rapture to be free of government and God, Fontaine took advantage of this and broke the few laws Rapture had to gain power. Ryan was content with wealth, freedom and some power, Fontaine wanted to control everything.

And how are the actions of Fontaine in Rapture any different from those of Ryan in the US? Fontaine is operating on the same principles as Ryan he just does them better.

 

[squidbuddy99]

If it wasn't created it would never have been destroyed,

Captain Obvious strikes again!

 

[Crayzor]

Ryan. He created a utopia that laid the foundations for its own destruction. A utopia that allowed people like Fontaine to flourish.

 

[TheSeventhLoneWolf]

If it wasn't created it would never have been destroyed,

Captain Obvious strikes again!

I'm not captain obvious. I'm the ghost of christmas future-in-the-past.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

The splicers did. They abused the ADAM and ended up taking the city down with them. In a constant quest to be perfect, they ended up ruining their lives, then looting, then looking to Sophia Lamb for guidance. She sent them down the wrong path and then the city went under.

 

[marmies]

Ryan did.

He created it, and anytime the power is that centralized, someone, like Fontaine, is bound to rise up against it because they want it themselves.

 

[SnootyEnglishman]

I call tie between Tenenbaum and Fontaine. Tenenbaum started it with the discovery/invention of ADAM causing the splicers to lose it and Fontaine put the icing on the cake be being a genuine asshole and overusing the ADAM and adding a religion to Rapture.

 

[Agayek]

Ryan, Fonmtaine only did what Ryan's philosophy dictated he should do, he was exactly what Ryan wanted people in Rapture to be.

No he didn't, though that appears to be the case from a cursory glance.

Ryan's philosophy (fairly standard Objectivist philosophy) is that the individual, and individual freedom, should be respected at all times by all people. It's a derivation of Deontological thought. Fontaine did not respect individual freedom. He abused the freedom he was given to manipulate and control as much of the populous as he could, to further his own ambitions, which directly violates many of the Objectivist principles.


The way I see it, the downfall of Rapture was the fault of both Fontaine and Ryan. Fontaine initiated the war to seize control, but Ryan abandoned his principles to meet the threat. If Ryan had remained true to his philosophy, much of the damage could have been averted.

 

[The Heik]

I was playing through Bioshock 2 when I thought to myself 'who's fault is it that Rapture is so apocalyptic?' You decide! Was it:
Ryan, for abusing his authority?
Fontaine, for trying to take control of Rapture?
Lamb, for turning the people against each other?
Jack, for killing Rapture's ruler?
or Temenbaum, for discovering ADAM and the Little Sisters?

Personally, I think Frank started it by bringing religion into Rapture. Not to talk badly about Christanity or any other religion, but you must admit religious hatred is a powerful thing.

[HEADING=1] YOU [/HEADING]

But seriously, I think it was Andrew Ryan, as he tried ot reach an ideal that could never be achieved by current society, so Rapture was doomed before it started. All those other characters just sped up the process.

 

[Agayek]

No, Fontaine worked outside the law and used Mafia tactics like smuggling and racketeering to enrich himself so he could fund plasmid development. He is almost the complete opposite of Ryan in the business world; a man who cares nothing for laws and is willing to destroy the world to achieve success.

Actually, no. Fontaine is, in his methodology, is very much the Objectivist ideal.

The only time Fontaine ever went against the philosophy was in his direct coercion against his employees and the founding of his religion. Everything else he does is completely in-line with Ryan's philosophy.

 

[silver wolf009]

Temebaum, without adam it would have been utopia.

This is incorrect. Fontaine's workers found the sea slugs, and Suchong was the first one to work with it. Tenebaum just perfected it. Adam would still be around, just not in such a highly distilled form.

Fontaine brought it's downfall obviously, he instigated the civil war at every turn, which is what ruined Rapture. To be more specific though it was captialism that brought it to it's knees, but that's a discussion for another day.

ahh thats wrong on the facts. in the 1st game theres a diary that has tennabaum saying she met the worker in question and took the slug she was the 1st one to work or see it, not suchong.

 

[Sneaklemming]

Unfortunately it was Andrew Ryan

 

[Crystal Cuckoo]

Ryan. His dream was crushed before it began.

There is no way to create a utopia: The inherent (stupid) nature of men will always find a way to take it down.

Always.

 

[Ataxia]

Ryan. His idea was that people could come to Rapture to get away from political bullshit, economic nonsense, and the issues of morality. Sure enough, those were the reasons they came. They wanted and Ryan gave them total freedom, until he started taking it away systematically soon afterwords. He created the hypocrisy that ultimately drove Rapture to turn on itself.

The fact we can argue about this and get multiple rationales just goes to show how good Bioshock was.

That's what I think when you ask people to drop morality but then turn around and ask them 'Do the right thing or I'll punish you!' and they're back to morality. Ryan was probably main contributer that or the fact that most of the people in Rapture didn't subscribe to what he believed...I think Jack because of the fact that he ONLY killed all the leaders of Rapture.

 

[Kanodin0]

Ryan, Fonmtaine only did what Ryan's philosophy dictated he should do, he was exactly what Ryan wanted people in Rapture to be.

No he didn't, though that appears to be the case from a cursory glance.

Ryan's philosophy (fairly standard Objectivist philosophy) is that the individual, and individual freedom, should be respected at all times by all people. It's a derivation of Deontological thought. Fontaine did not respect individual freedom. He abused the freedom he was given to manipulate and control as much of the populous as he could, to further his own ambitions, which directly violates many of the Objectivist principles.


The way I see it, the downfall of Rapture was the fault of both Fontaine and Ryan. Fontaine initiated the war to seize control, but Ryan abandoned his principles to meet the threat. If Ryan had remained true to his philosophy, much of the damage could have been averted.

I still disagree with objectivism, but I would argue that from the beginning Andrew Ryan wasn't following his ideals since he had laws against religion and smuggling and a police force to enforce those laws. Alternatively, it could be taken as him wanting an objectivist utopia, but only for himself and everyone else had to fall in line with his ideal of that utopia.

 

[Ataxia]

The problem is that without Tenenbaum, there would still have been a war, albeit without plasmids.

Without Fontaine, there would have been a war between the Workers and the Rich anyway.

Without Ryan, the city would still have the same contempt between the two classes.

Without Lamb, (haven't played bioshock 2 yet. Its sat on my desk and i can't wait)

It was never Jack's fault, however, as he turned up after the city was destroyed.

Sorry to correct you but without Ryan the city would never have existed. Though you put up some good points like it was never Jack's fault. Technically if it was Jack's fault oh...wait...He was mind-controlled by Fontaine so it was Fontaine's fault. Also anybody else notice the Atlas titan referance? Like his the only leader left holding Rapture up I guess?

 

[Broady Brio]

LolCat of course! For teh lolz!

OT: Ryan. It was him that made things out of control.