Poll: Why is melee over powered?

[tunderball]

Its all about game balance, the reward for being brave enough to charge into an oponent is an instant kill and also serves as a quick way to kill an enemy that isn't paying attention. In some games players can use this to an advantage but generally speaking if your not good enough to shoot someone its your own fault.

Well that clears CoD up and now for Halo.

Melee isn't a one hit kill whilst the player still has sheilds, if you can't kill a player in halo before he is able to get to you and take off your sheild then you probably deserve to die (4 or 5 shots to the head with a DMR I think?), if you get assasinated you deserve to die. As always with Halo you can insult its story and 1 dimensioned characters but the gameplay and balance is spot on, on that note aswell its probably worth saying that the 'overpowered' melee in Halo is explained in the narrative.

So in short no and you need to learn to aim better before complaining.

 

[phantasmalWordsmith]

Alright the thing with Halo's melee weapons is that they're meant to be overpowered. You're meant to seek them out for easy kills, like the valkyrie rockets or the minigun in Black Ops. It's the same reason why people make a mad dash for the rocket launcher or the Spartan laser. If you want a complete test of skill, play the SWAT game types. I'm not sure about CoD because I don't play it as much.

 

[Eric Staples]

I'm just tired of out-smarting my opponent, sneaking up on them, shooting them SIX times in the chest and they just charge me and insta kill me with their knife. The physics are totally off. The least my bullets could do is slow them down. And why is it if I get shot enough, I fall to the ground and slowly start bleeding to death and am still able to shoot, but if I get knifed in the foot, then I die immediately and there is no bleeding period? You practically have to spec melee if you're a casual player who doesn't have a clan to hide behind.

It's already been said in this thread. It's a reward for successfully getting close to another player. Otherwise there would be no reason to use melee at all. Though I do agree that in games like CoD it is overpowered because it's an instant kill. The melee weapon should do a lot of damage but not THAT much.

Then why doesn't it work that if I shoot someone up close that they don't die instantly? Seriously, why don't they die if I pistol them in the neck, but if I knife them in the arm then they die instantly? It's not even like there is a transitional period to switching to your knife weapon. Closeness has nothing to do with it.

 

[karoliso]

I'm just tired of out-smarting my opponent, sneaking up on them, shooting them SIX times in the chest and they just charge me and insta kill me with their knife. The physics are totally off. The least my bullets could do is slow them down. And why is it if I get shot enough, I fall to the ground and slowly start bleeding to death and am still able to shoot, but if I get knifed in the foot, then I die immediately and there is no bleeding period? You practically have to spec melee if you're a casual player who doesn't have a clan to hide behind.

It's already been said in this thread. It's a reward for successfully getting close to another player. Otherwise there would be no reason to use melee at all. Though I do agree that in games like CoD it is overpowered because it's an instant kill. The melee weapon should do a lot of damage but not THAT much.

Then why doesn't it work that if I shoot someone up close that they don't die instantly? Seriously, why don't they die if I pistol them in the neck, but if I knife them in the arm then they die instantly? It's not even like there is a transitional period to switching to your knife weapon. Closeness has nothing to do with it.

Consider playing a better* game then. Not every game follows the same design principles.


*a game with a more realistic hitbox damage system.

 

[mattmoin117]

ppft in minecraft it takes 10 punches with fists and 2 w/ diamond sword and differs in between(stone iron wood gold)

 

[Ramanthes]

Because for some inexplicable reason, people want games set in the real world. In the real world, it doesn't matter what the animal is, you stick a knife in it's throat and it's dead.

This makes no sense considering that in the same games getting shot three times or even more doesn't kill you dead on the spot.IRL if I shot someone with a high powered rifle or a machine gun,they'd be dead from shock even if I hit the torso.

 

[Eric Staples]

I'm just tired of out-smarting my opponent, sneaking up on them, shooting them SIX times in the chest and they just charge me and insta kill me with their knife. The physics are totally off. The least my bullets could do is slow them down. And why is it if I get shot enough, I fall to the ground and slowly start bleeding to death and am still able to shoot, but if I get knifed in the foot, then I die immediately and there is no bleeding period? You practically have to spec melee if you're a casual player who doesn't have a clan to hide behind.

It's already been said in this thread. It's a reward for successfully getting close to another player. Otherwise there would be no reason to use melee at all. Though I do agree that in games like CoD it is overpowered because it's an instant kill. The melee weapon should do a lot of damage but not THAT much.

Then why doesn't it work that if I shoot someone up close that they don't die instantly? Seriously, why don't they die if I pistol them in the neck, but if I knife them in the arm then they die instantly? It's not even like there is a transitional period to switching to your knife weapon. Closeness has nothing to do with it.

Consider playing a better* game then. Not every game follows the same design principles.


*a game with a more realistic hitbox damage system.

I'm not the type of person who boycotts a game because it isn't perfect. I'll leave that behavior to the cry babies. I have the ability to like and dislike certain things about games. I call it forming an opinion.

 

[Abedeus]

And the winner for worst poll in an Escapist thread goes to...

OT: It's overpowered in CoD because it's a flawed gamed. Don't get me wrong, knifes do serious damage, but when you can pounce 8 yards in front of you to kill someone it gets realistic.

However some games balance the issue properly (IE Deus Ex: HR) where you can kill someone at a very close range, but you can only do that to so many people in a certain time before your energy runs out.

EDIT: Oh, and TF2 does it well as well, having to stab someone so many times before their health is whittled down to zero.

Don't forget Enemy Territory games, and Battlefield.

Basically if someone can get to you THAT CLOSE and stab you between the helmet and armor, you should die. And even if he just slashes at you, he should deal a lot of damage. Why? Because he needs to come CLOSE to use that weapon. Meanwhile, you unload an entire clip of ammo into him, and he's dead before he gets to remember the Indiana Jones sword vs gun scene.

It's the reason melee heroes in MOBA games are usually the best scaling ones (except for League of Legends where they are either off-tanks, or useless crap against decent enemies) in the game, because they are the least safe. Mage can nuke 5 people at once from a long range, archers can keep people pinned down constantly for free, but melees have to run up to enemy, dodge all the slows/stuns/everything else impeding your movement, before finally plunging the knife into an enemy. And even then you have to get through buffs, shields, protections and escape abilities. High risk, high reward, or low risk, low reward.


Though it is retarded in CoD, where you can jump from person to person and stab all day long. Makes you wonder why have guns at all...

 

[Knusper]

I guess good balance would be that it takes a long time to pull the knife out of the body, thus leaving the player vulnerable.

 

[Samurai Silhouette]

Melee is overpowered thanks to the regenerating health nonsense. Team Fortress 2 made more sense with the spy. Backstab for instant kill and facestabs just for emergencies.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Game balance is a factor but it definitely kills realism for me... Thus I cannot stand the multiplayer on these games. But to his their own.

It kills realism? Yeah, from what I hear it's probably messed up. But do you know how difficult it is to hit someone with a gun at close range while they're trying to stab you?

If two people are right next to eachother, the guy with the gun is at a disadvantage if he tries to shoot with it (using a rifle as a melee weapon is a slightly different issue) unless the one with the knife is a complete idiot.

It's only when you get far enough away from the person with a knife that they can't grab or slash at you that you have an inherent, decisive advantage with a gun.

Fortunately, in the real world that's 99% of all cases, because any gun user with any sense won't let a person with a melee weapon get that close to begin with.

 

[LitleWaffle]

1.It isn't that it makes sense, it is to make the game more balanced.

If you can stealthily walk up behind someone and stab them or pummel them or whatever, and they don't notice, than the silenced kill allows you to remain hidden.

However, running around knifing someone all day is not a good idea, since people can just shoot you down while you are chasing someone.

2. You have this ability also, it isn't necessarily overpowered if everyone can do it.

If someone is charging at you attempting to melee, you need to either prepare your own melee, hopefully getting it off before him, or run backwards willy nilly, maybe do some jumps and keep shooting.

Melee is not overpowered, its just that many haven't figured out how to counter it.

Note: If you didn't have time for a counter, they just did their melee correctly. Be alert and cautious of potential hiding spots.

 

[Senaro]

It is a little sad that the majority of my reach kills have been melee, but it's one of the fastest ways to kill someone at close range. You could pump an entire assault rifle clip into his armor, or just punch him twice. Sadly, the fist is more reliable than my terrible aim.

 

[Davroth]

As far as I know you can't build an armor that is effective against both stabbing weapons and bullets. So once you get in stabbing distance on a modern battlefield, you better have your knife ready.

 

[josemlopes]

It's a risk vs reward thing. If you're going to run right up to someone all the while they're shooting you, you need some sort of reason. Instakill melee attacks mean that you can make a viable strategy out of attacking in close combat. It also means you can sneak up on people and have a way to deal with them. I think the halo system works pretty well, 2 hits to kill from the front, 1from the back.

The problem is that melee isnt that much of a risk, in most games it has "auto-aim" in the way that you wont miss the hit, and it still lunges the character.

The player that is shooting will have to unload a mag on the enemy to kill him while the other guy just needs to get a bit close and instakill.


Look at the guy at 1:11


Even while getting hit the guy manages to knife him, while if it was gun VS gun it would have been completely different.


EDIT: Also worth pointing out is the time that it takes to knife, its instant.

 

[Assassin Xaero]

Cod has the knife which can apparently kill you as you are unloading a machine gun into the target that is meleeing. Halo has this exact problem. (Ive just rented halo reach for the first time) Im unloading a gun into somebody and get insta killed with a pummel.

Originally, I think it was from when games were a challenge and it only took a few bullets to kill someone, so then if you managed to get that close it was an instant kill. Problem was, when games like Halo and Call of Duty came around with their regenerative health and "you have to empty an entire clip in them, and they still might survive" way of making the game, while not changing the melee feature, it became unbalanced. Again, that is just what I'm thinking about the whole thing, no idea if that actually is it or not.

 

[dimensional]

The only game I recall where Melee was verging on being OP, was MW2 with the commando perk equipped. Apart from that, melee is pretty much balanced in most games.

I agree it was so easy to get kills that way in MW2 and whats this about sneaking? you can get plenty of kills by just running in the direction of other players and smacking the knife button.
Halo I never had a problem with although swords could get annoying in Halo 2 (again massive lunge distance usually insta-kill).
My favourite melee in a FPS was easily the original Perfect Dark on N64 just made your screen go really blurry so you couldnt see also the poison knife to the head was awesome in that game as well, pretty hard to do but it completely messed them up for a good 20 seconds or so and of course there was no huge lunge ability meaning it was hard to get that close.

 

[Alphakirby]

Well excuse me if I feel that killing someone with my bust is a useful tactic when I'm trying to give myself time to heal. (FYI,I'm a medic)

Though those damn scouts are way too fucking fast,which means me hitting and therefore killing them takes patience,dodging,and luck.

 

[WanderingFool]

Ill just repeat what ive said in other threads:

I dont have a problem with melee in near all MP games ive played, cept COD. The thing I would change is to make the quick melee a pistol whip/ butt-stock smash, and if you hold the melee button for a something like 5 seconds, you pull out the knife (which can instakill), but you dont have access to range weapons. As I see it, there is no risk with COD melee, as you can have a ranged weapon out the entire time, and than press the insta-win button when you find yourself next to an enemy player. But if you had to choose between having a gun drawn or have an instakill knife, than using the knife has more risk, thus I feel it should than carry a greater reward.

*Edit*

Forgot to add, the quick melee is just pressing the melee button, and it wouldnt be an insta-kill obviously, but it would deal a little damage and daze the other player, allowing you to pull back a bit and fire you gun.

 

[Grufflenark]

Most games use the stupid "one-melee hit for free kill" system.
TF2 however does not.