Poll: Would you harbor a nazi?

[Quazimofo]

They couldn't do anything about it. They were fools, and have changed. One exception. If the words or phrase "I was just following orders." come out of their mouth, I'm turning them in. To quote The 9th Doctor: "And with that sentence, you just lost the right to even talk to me."

yeah. it was a bad time, and many bad things happened to far too many people. but one cannot change the past, one can only learn from their mistakes. and this man clearly has and his own conscious seems like it is already torturing him for his deeds. everyone deserves a second chance, especially this long after the act; and this man clearly got his second chance, and used it well, so why ruin it for him because of people who are zealous about justice, no matter how long after and no matter how much has been done already.

but if they make the excuse that they were just following orders, they have not truly changed. they used their superiors as a scapegoat. they are not truly sorry, they just realize most people dislike what they did and want to escape punishment, not seek redemption. if they are only worried about their own skin, even all these years later, they deserve the punishment they would get at the hands of our justice system.

so yes i would hide him. he fucked up, but he is a good man who does not deserve the punishment he would receive for his actions all those decades ago.

 

[StormShaun]

If they like killing people or hate, or are just bad, id say GTFO or Bang...if they are good or are forced to join, sure Id help him..

 

[klakkat]

You don?t get a say.

Any reason why not? :/

And this is hardly playing god this is simply bring a war criminal too justice.

Can we have George W. Bush on trial then? :/

The Revenge based justice system is crap. Solves absolutely nothing. He has payed his dues in more ways than one. Punishment now would be meaningless.

Bush wasn't the (only) root of that problem, but I don't want to get into that argument... too long, too stupid, too painful.

You are right that revenge based justice is useless; mainly because it relies entirely on opinion, which by nature varies from person to person. We, as a society, agree on a few things that should not be allowed, and these are codified in "laws." But laws have jurisdictions. If a man murders someone who isn't a citizen of any nation, on land that isn't owned by any nation, is it a crime? By law, no. By morality? Too complex to answer simply yes or no. Morality is too fluid and mutable to use as a basis for any decision, since it is different for every individual. There is no way to deal with this in a fully just and fair way; no matter the intent of a system, there will be SOMEONE who gets unjustly screwed. NO system is perfect.

We can, however, look at the values that form morality. WHY do we hate the Nazis? Most of them never killed anyone. Not. ONE. Person. Only a select few committed what we would call "war crimes" but even that term is useless; did not allied generals commit atrocities which the Germans could never hope to match? how about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? How about the firebombing of Tokyo? between the three, more than 500,000 civilians dead, in just three days of terror and destruction. Were the generals that ordered those strikes persecuted? No. 'Justice' is a meaningless term, used by those with loose morals to rationalize the destruction of those they hate.

 

[InfiniteSingularity]

You don?t get a say. And this is hardly playing god this is simply bring a war criminal too justice.

If you had to choice between joining the SS as a soldier, or go work as a labourer in an concentration camp, or be sent to the camp, what would you chose?

Not all had the the chance of choosing, others where teached at the school that Jews where parasites, and to be true to ourselves we all have done stupid things in our late teens and early twenties.

The Nuremberg trials already established that ?just following orders? is not a defense even in war there are things you have not right to do being order to do them doesn?t excuse that. And while I did do some stupid things when I was young I never to part in mass murder!

Question: What if you had a wife and two kids - one was 9, the other was 4. Would you rather be sent to a camp and let them fend for themselves, with little to no income? Or become known as enemies of the state?

 

[Quazimofo]

Most of the officers at this camp were doing what they were told - if they didn't they'd likely be imprisoned themselves, so they wouldn't be able to supply for their family. They were scared, threatened, and bullied into complying, they did this for their families, and you would too. I know I would.

Of course I would forgive him, and I wouldn't turn him into the police, unless the police are asking about something completely different that he did.

well yeah, if he committed another crime, then he kind of did screw up his second chance, and i would turn him in. but not because he was a nazi then, but because he is a criminal now.

 

[Laser Priest]

I'd turn him in, as it would probably be more smiled upon by the "justice" system and more merciful than making him stay with me.

At most for helping him, I'd send him away.

 

[The Last Nomad]

It depends... If turning him into the police has greater benefits than harboring him, then I'd probably turn him in. If he was offering me something to help him, I'd side with him.
But if neither side was any benefit/disadvantage to me, I think it would depend on how guilty he seemed to feel about it all. I don't think I could really make a decision unless it actually happen to me.

 

[Kouryuu]

The Nuremberg trials already established that ?just following orders? is not a defense even in war there are things you have not right to do being order to do them doesn?t excuse that. And while I did do some stupid things when I was young I never to part in mass murder!

In 1946, the Nuremberg Tribunal declared the Waffen-SS to be a criminal organization, making an exception of people who were forcibly conscripted. Throughout the post-war years, the Allies would apply this exception to the soldiers of the Latvian Legion and the Estonian Legion. The US Displaced Persons Commission in September 1950 declared that:

"The Baltic Waffen SS Units (Baltic Legions) are to be considered as separate and distinct in purpose, ideology, activities, and qualifications for membership from the German SS, and therefore the Commission holds them not to be a movement hostile to the Government of the United States."[4]

THIS undermines your statement. There are always exceptions!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latvian_Legion

And Brainwashing is on of them. Propaganda done well is a very effective brainwashing.

 

[Slippers]

We can, however, look at the values that form morality. WHY do we hate the Nazis? Most of them never killed anyone. Not. ONE. Person. Only a select few committed what we would call "war crimes" but even that term is useless; did not allied generals commit atrocities which the Germans could never hope to match? how about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? How about the firebombing of Tokyo? between the three, more than 500,000 civilians dead, in just three days of terror and destruction. Were the generals that ordered those strikes persecuted? No. 'Justice' is a meaningless term, used by those with loose morals to rationalize the destruction of those they hate.

Pretty much, the only reason why The Axis are criminals and the Allies are Heroes is because the Allies won and the Nazis didn't.

If Nazis had won, we'd be taught about the Japanese interment camps in the Americas instead of Auschwitz at school.

 

[InfiniteSingularity]

You don?t get a say. And this is hardly playing god this is simply bring a war criminal too justice.

If you had to choice between joining the SS as a soldier, or go work as a labourer in an concentration camp, or be sent to the camp, what would you chose?

Not all had the the chance of choosing, others where teached at the school that Jews where parasites, and to be true to ourselves we all have done stupid things in our late teens and early twenties.

The Nuremberg trials already established that ?just following orders? is not a defense even in war there are things you have not right to do being order to do them doesn?t excuse that. And while I did do some stupid things when I was young I never to part in mass murder!

Question: What if you had a wife and two kids - one was 9, the other was 4. Would you rather be sent to a camp and let them fend for themselves, with little to no income? Or become known as enemies of the state?

Like I said it doesn?t matter.

You said that about protecting oneself. I didn't know you would have risked your family for "the right thing"

 

[CommanderKirov]

Nazi officers killed my grandfathers family since he was harboring jewish people.

I would stick the gun to his forhead myself.

 

[Mechsoap]

He regrets his actions in the past, and should be allowed safe haven. Even though he ruined alot of life's, in his youth.

 

[Valksy]

Turn him in at once. And just as the police come for him, punch his bastard face as hard as I can, just once. So he feels the tiniest, most minute, fraction of the pain and fear that he caused to his fellow human beings.

Screw forgiveness and redemption. Some things are unforgivable and if he genuinely felt sorrow for what he had done, he would have thrown himself to the mercy of the law 40 years ago.

Spend some time studying what really happened in concentration camps, talk to a survivor or read their testimony. No sane person can truly understand the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis on their victims.

And yeah, I sometimes wear a pink triangle. Although mine would have been black in those days. And he would have KILLED ME if he could.

Fuck him.

 

[Kouryuu]

We can, however, look at the values that form morality. WHY do we hate the Nazis? Most of them never killed anyone. Not. ONE. Person. Only a select few committed what we would call "war crimes" but even that term is useless; did not allied generals commit atrocities which the Germans could never hope to match? how about Hiroshima and Nagasaki? How about the firebombing of Tokyo? between the three, more than 500,000 civilians dead, in just three days of terror and destruction. Were the generals that ordered those strikes persecuted? No. 'Justice' is a meaningless term, used by those with loose morals to rationalize the destruction of those they hate.

Pretty much, the only reason why The Axis are criminals and the Allies are Heroes is because the Allies won and the Nazis didn't.

If Nazis had won, we'd be taught about the Japanese interment camps in the Americas instead of Auschwitz at school.

Dont forget the soviets, they exterminated mor then a million people even befor the war!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5qQsXUZh0I&feature=related

 

[Asehujiko]

Like hell he's sorry. I'd turn that fucker in, I have no sympathy for nazis.

Ah, yes, gross generalizations based on the actions of a few decades ago and condemning all for it. Now where have I seen that before...

It's not like the NSDAP was the dominant political party in the 4th largest country in the world for several years before a comparatively tiny fringe section started their campaign of misinformed genocide.

Hypothetical question: If Obama suddenly started exterminating a minority, would that make you start hating everybody who ever voted Democrat?

Also wtf @ everybody who thinks that interrupting his current humanitarian work so he can go sit in a tiny room and cost tax is "justice".

 

[Slippers]

And yet we are taught today that both of those actions were wrong.

I'd say there is a difference between getting a "that's bad too" response and having a whole nation vilified in ~ a quarter of the whole of media for what's nearing a century.

The fact that this thread even exists can be used as proof of that statement.

Dont forget the soviets, they exterminated mor then a million people even befor the war!

Considering the fact that I live in a country that split off from the CCCP, I'd say that I'm quite familiar with the Soviet modus operendi.

 

[Kouryuu]

True but if police are looking for this hypothetical Nazi then he didn?t meet them.

Did Nuremberg work on individual cases? I guess not.

watch this [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5qQsXUZh0I&feature=related ] and tell me that justice was served in Nuremberg, and after that you still insist on what you are saying, then it just proves that you would follow the orders of Hitler or Stalin and still believe you are the best and smartest one around!