Poll: Would you harbor a nazi?

[Baron von Blitztank]

I wouldn't turn him in, unless the police are after him because of a different crime I don't know about, not just because he's an ex-Nazi.
The war has already been won and both sides have suffered over its course. It's now time for the survivors of the war to live on their lives as they wish, in peace. And if what this man is doing right now isn't breaking any laws, then he shouldnt be judged just because of his past.

 

[michiehoward]

Funny thing is, is that Eichhman was in the paper just yesterday, so secret tapes in the possession of the German gov't were released. It was Eichmann in South America talking very causally about how he didn't do his job good enough, and regretting that he and his plan didn't completely eradicate Eurpoean Jews off the face of the planet. Swell guy, he was hiding in peace and apparently was very well liked.

 

[Dogstile]

snip.

Sorry to say but that's extremly racist

I said forgive the man, with a historically Jewish God, a Jewish Savior, with a mixed ancestry that would have been looked down upon for being not being of a certain descent, and you have the right to claim I am racist?

This is the foolishness I just spoke of. So many sides are given the full right to use what is and isn't racism, yet in this case the Germans are not by any stretch of the imagination. Even then, the constant reoccuring imagery and force-fed notions that it was worse because it was done to the "Chosen People" could be seen as racist as well.

What the hell are you talking about, dude. We're not talking about prosecuting random Germans, we're talking about prosecuting a Nazi that committed crimes against humanity. Unless you think Jews don't count as a part of humanity, in which case you're a racist. And racism is bad, no matter who spouts it.

Sorry, you've made yourself look foolish.

Are you really claiming jews are a race?

we are an etnicity for and a nation a race? it depands how you look at it if "black" or "chinease" is a race so id jewish...

and Arsen your racist because the black people and mexicans ruining america bullsh!t you wrote nothing else...

Being Jewish means you follow a religion, not that you're a certain ethnic group. For example, there are Russian jews, and English jews.

 

[Malkavian]

I'd turn him in. He's committed crimes against humanity, and you cant just say you're sorry and think to get away with it. Even if he's sincere, the message needs to me sent.

That really depends on what you believe the role of the judical system is. Is it to punish criminals, rehabilitate criminals, or give victims satisfaction? That is a very serious decission you have to think about, if you want to pass judgement.

I myself believe in rehabilitation. And therefor, it would make no sense whatsoever to incarcerate a man that is probably in his 80'es or 90'es, has lived in repentance for about 70 years, and who it is pretty clear is doing all he can to give back to the world. A prison would not be fitting for any man that old, for a, though very very terrible, crime he committed so many years ago. He would die within the month.
He HAS rehabilitated, and there's just not much point so prison.
Noone would get much satisfaction either, and I doubt he would actually feel much punished. At least not compared to how much he probably punishes himself.

Of course, that is just my oppinion, and you have yours

But therefore, I would harbor him. Any number of factors may cause me to change that, for an example, if he ever showed signs of non-repentance.

 

[silasbufu]

When he was a nazi he had to choose between taking a shitload of lives, or refuse to follow orders and desert and possibly die. He chose his life, out of a survival instinct, which is understandable but everything you do must have a consequence, even if it's 60-70 years later (by the way is that guy like 100 years old).

what is the way to repay your sins, sitting in a jail or helping homeless children, cooking for the poor, spending his savings on charity?

As it was stated he tries to do good, he regrets what he is done, even if it is just his home country and not him himself who did it. it is never stated that he is guilty.

And if I feel he is and does not regret from heart then I will ask him to leave, but after 60 years any kind of trial is impossible, because most of the witnesses are dead or to old to be able to identify someone who aged 60 years.

Who are you, I, or the OP to decide if he is guilty or not? Sure you can play the "justice is blind" card all you want, but if we would all take justice into our own hands there would be chaos (alot more than now at least).

I know it's a different case, but if someone murdered a person I loved, did no time for it, and came to me 20-30 years later saying he has changed, that he's a saint and he's so sorry, I would still not forgive him.

 

[michiehoward]

I happen to know an ex-nazi actually, he served in the war was captured by Russia and escaped. He's got many friends in what seems to be nearing the end of his life (he's not in great health) and 2 of these friends are jews, one I believe is one who's a survivor of the war as well.

It's not like all the Nazis knew there was genocide going on. From what I recall he was drafted and was put into a tank division.

That is not a "nazi", that is a german soldier. Completely different.

The OP specified an OFFICER working in a DEATH CAMP. That meant on a daily basis he gave orders which resulted in the inhumane treatment, abuse, sexual assualt, and murder, of innocent, caged, civilians.

Actually almost EVERYONE was a Nazi and/or a member of the Nazi Party aka National Socialist party. Including a run of the mill German solider.

 

[Malkavian]

Being Jewish means you follow a religion, not that you're a certain ethnic group. For example, there are Russian jews, and English jews.

Are you seriously arguing with a Jewish guy what he is? Judaism is a religion, yes. But the Jews Hitler commited his crimes against was an ethnic group. And still is, for the largest part.

 

[Kouryuu]

Being Jewish means you follow a religion, not that you're a certain ethnic group. For example, there are Russian jews, and English jews.

Someone sane!
Whoo hoo!

 

[NezumiiroKitsune]

Justice is a great ideal, I like to uphold it as much as reasonably possible, but it's intangible and nothing but a fabrication of humanities need to see things that upset them atoned for without infringing on it's own ideals too often. In this case the man would be very old, he now is no threat to anyone and I am told he is utterly repentant, however he wants to avoid jail. I can see a few reasons for this, he may have grandchildren he doesn't wish to be separated from or he may simply fear what awaits an ex-nazi officer, but either way it doesn't change that sending him to prison at this point won't constitute justice; it'll be a hollow gesture to a situation where the fantasy rules of justice can't find a solution that makes sense, because there isn't one. Life, the universe, it only makes sense in the most logical of fashions, there is no balance of deeds and misdeeds, and in this case there is no longer any need to attempt. If there is an afterlife he will reap what he has sown or see mercy / reward for his penance and altruistic nature, and for those who believe there is not they must make peace with the uncaring entropy of the universe and of life. This man would not benefit humanity by going to jail, he has changed, and his crimes are his own personal demons. If he didn't care about what he'd done, he wouldn't begin now and we can't force him to. Killing him would be a futile and helpless gesture further compounding the inability for justice to sit comfortably here.

Who is he today matters more than whom he once was. To whether I'd harbour him however, no probably not, but I'd stand for him in court and testify to his kind and repentant nature, and impress the lack of necessity in imprisoning him. I'd understand if they did. Maybe he should have been in jail all along, maybe he should have never had grandchildren or spent his later years free of the fear of persecution and hostility. I cannot say.

Some might say he deserves to live his final years in anxiety and loneliness because he did the same at some point to many others. I don't believe killing a person makes up for him killing many other people, and the same is true here, to me. It'd be empty suffering from a time when so such cruelty was already done.

I would not contest sending him to jail though if that was the verdict as, as I have said, I cannot say what is right. There is no justice here.

 

[Dogstile]

Being Jewish means you follow a religion, not that you're a certain ethnic group. For example, there are Russian jews, and English jews.

Are you seriously arguing with a Jewish guy what he is? Judaism is a religion, yes. But the Jews Hitler commited his crimes against was an ethnic group. And still is, for the largest part.

Yes, yes I am. Are you seriously telling me that The fact that Hitler executed both german and russian jews isn't proof that jews are not a singular ethnic group?

GOOGLE IT

 

[Leg End]

If I killed someone in say, self defense, yes I would regret it...but I would be facing some sort of punishment.

Not in the US you wouldn't, though, in this case, it is a difference of local laws. :/

Of course wouldn't it depend on the manner you 'defended' yourself? Say if he approached you with a knife and you shot him, that's grounds for a manslaughter charge?

Yes, indeed it does.

If he would approach you/threaten you with a knife, you are permitted to brandish your firearm in an attempt to deter him.

If he attacks you with said knife, you are permitted to, to put it bluntly, put him down. To go into finer detail, you are permitted to use lethal force to stop your attacker. If he dies in such a situation, it would be considered Self-Defense. It is you against someone attempting to inflict serious, possibly long lasting injury upon you with the(assumed) intent of killing you. :/

 

[WhatHityou]

It would be a no or me.

Not because I think at this point he deserves it, I mean dissabordanation meant you got shot when it came to the German army. But if police are already looking for him, it wouldn't matter anyways, they are going to get him. I personally wouldn't wan't to got to jail for harboring him from authorizes.

 

[Kouryuu]

Who are you, I, or the OP to decide if he is guilty or not? Sure you can play the "justice is blind" card all you want, but if we would all take justice into our own hands there would be chaos (alot more than now at least).

I know it's a different case, but if someone murdered a person I loved, did no time for it, and came to me 20-30 years later saying he has changed, that he's a saint and he's so sorry, I would still not forgive him.

Efraim Zuroff - The Last Nazi Hunter

Do you know how he operates?

I will explain

he sees your father was conscripted in the Waffen SS conscripted 1 day before the German surrender.
[ no chance whatsoever to get near a concentration camp or even get basic training]

your father + Waffen SS = Jew killer -> Death penalty

if that is justice then I am happy that I am blind, then justice is not only blind, but has incredibly selective hearing too!

 

[fix-the-spade]

Tha Nazis were paragons of society.

They gave to charity, encouraged education and unity. They got most of the western world behind their cause with a broad grin and positive results. The Nazis were masters of propaganda and manipulation, right up to the bitter end.

Why would you assume that his years as a perfect neighbour were anything else than his building escape routes for when the past caught up to bite him?

The cops, they're getting a call.

 

[orangecharger]

They couldn't do anything about it. They were fools, and have changed. One exception. If the words or phrase "I was just following orders." come out of their mouth, I'm turning them in. To quote The 9th Doctor: "And with that sentence, you just lost the right to even talk to me."

So let's just see. They who win get to decide what a War Crime is. I believe I have seen photos of Allied soldiers abusing prisoners in the Middle East. During the Vietnam War I would say more than a few villages and innocents were killed for sport by the western military. If those nations had the force and reach of the US, would there be trials for War Crimes for what the "good guys" did? I am going to guess they were not following orders either.

If given a choice of your own life against a stranger's -- if we had the proverbial gun to our heads and all we had to do was have some stranger killed not even by our own hand (just give the order) -- how many of us would truly be martyrs? Just following orders is a viable excuse when your life is forfeit if you don't. With what this Nazi regime did to the Jewish people with little to no provocation, would they really not treat insubordination just as harshly if not worse? Given the options -- I am not sure we'd all make the morally correct decision. Perhaps there where people who tried to stand up against the orders they were given. I don't believe any of those people survived the war.

On topic for harboring -- I am not going to go to jail for a "crime" someone else committed. If the witch hunt continues who am I. I am after all just following orders by turning them in - no matter how nice they are - no matter the circumstances -- standing up against the decision to track them down as a war criminal would bring consequences to me - why not just wash my hands of it and let them do what they want to this person. Better him than me. See how easy it is to just follow orders?

War Crime is an oxymoron -- War is not civilized. War can not be held to the ideals of times when we are not at war. Taking another human life outside of the circumstances of war is a crime. Taking multiple human lives by any means necessary during a war makes you a hero. Drawing a line as to what is an acceptably horrible means of killing someone and what is an unacceptably horrible means makes for a fuzzy line.

 

[Dogstile]

snip.

Sorry to say but that's extremly racist

I said forgive the man, with a historically Jewish God, a Jewish Savior, with a mixed ancestry that would have been looked down upon for being not being of a certain descent, and you have the right to claim I am racist?

This is the foolishness I just spoke of. So many sides are given the full right to use what is and isn't racism, yet in this case the Germans are not by any stretch of the imagination. Even then, the constant reoccuring imagery and force-fed notions that it was worse because it was done to the "Chosen People" could be seen as racist as well.

What the hell are you talking about, dude. We're not talking about prosecuting random Germans, we're talking about prosecuting a Nazi that committed crimes against humanity. Unless you think Jews don't count as a part of humanity, in which case you're a racist. And racism is bad, no matter who spouts it.

Sorry, you've made yourself look foolish.

Are you really claiming jews are a race?

we are an etnicity for and a nation a race? it depands how you look at it if "black" or "chinease" is a race so id jewish...

and Arsen your racist because the black people and mexicans ruining america bullsh!t you wrote nothing else...

Being Jewish means you follow a religion, not that you're a certain ethnic group. For example, there are Russian jews, and English jews.

Oh lets not get into that again...

Short answer, Jews are both an ethnic group and a religion. You can follow the religion and not be a Jew, you can be a Jew and not follow the religion. DNA testing has in fact verified our genertic pattern that is as strong as anything called an ethnic group. International law has repeatedly recognized us as an ethnic group. Drop it.

Fine, tired of arguing the point anyway. Still think you're not correct though