Rubber bullets and tear gas? Sure enough. BB's and Paintballs? You bet. Fire hoses? Can't wait. Nerve gas and Full metal jackets? No thanks.
Poll: Would You shoot at Protestors?
- Thread starter heyheysg
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hippies should be sitting in their house getting high not out on the street protesting and the less hippies around the better so yes i would shoot its not an illegal order so only the hippies get something bad happening to them
which is getting a bruise and some broken bones and some sore eyes
which is getting a bruise and some broken bones and some sore eyes
Well, if they're blocking traffic and/or causing general mayhem then let the rubber bullets and tear gas start flying. The very worst that can happen is if the bullets cause whelps or if someone shoves a gas 'nade in their mouth.
When did "Protest" and "Riot" become mutually exclusive?o_O said:
OP may have specified protest but didn't specify peaceful nor exclude rioting. In fact he calls it a "mob", which certainly implies the possibility or rioting.
Still, it's quite clear a group of people can be both Protesting AND Rioting. Hence why often the distinction is made between 'Violent Protest' and 'Peaceful Protest'. A protest is exactly that, a protest. Being angry about a popular issue does not give you Carte Blanche to undermine law and order even if it is for something "noble" like opposing a war. (not all wars are good to oppose... we're still bitter about how the US left us hanging for over 2 years in WWII)
Look, a crowd is only as smart as the stupidest individual of that crowd, things can SO easily get out of control. And as a soldier/cop the whole point is they DO NOT act like a mob, they don't all act as individuals, they defer decisions to commanding officers who have the training, competence, responsibility and up-to-date information to know what is the best action.
Do you understand what it means to be given an order? Do you understand the function of the command? It is not a democracy, it is not group decision making, that takes time and other luxuries that are simply not practical.
It is not mob mentality, you aren't shooting because the guy next to you is shooting, you are shooting because you commanding officer gave you an ORDER! If you think that order is illegal then you can disobey it and take your chances in a court martial, but you're only grounds for defence would be you knew it was undoubtedly illegal.
But I don't see that is the case here, I'm not shooting live rounds, I only know what is going on right in front of me, I see no reason that an order like that would be undoubtedly illegal. Some car could be getting smashed or set on fire, fights may be breaking out in other sections, the rubber bullets would be for the purpose of dispersing the crowd QUICKLY!
A CO doesn't have time to explain everything to each soldier, discuss it, nor do you have time to weigh up the pros and cons. You just have a job to do.
WRONG!Le Tueur said:
Even the military allows for you to disobey a morally or legally questionable order, in fact it is your duty! If any of you ever bothered to look at the military law books then you would know this fact. It is why 'I was just following orders' has never been seen as a justifiable reason if you are caught breaking the law.
The police... smile even less on that excuse then the military does. There is even less of a 'you must obey a orders' mentality in the police force. The worse that can happen if you refuse a order is a demand of resignation. If you refuse they can do a competency hearing and fire you if you are found to be incompetent but that is it! No jail time, no records or anything... you just get fired.
After all isn't illegal at all to disobey your boss, but it isn't productive to a long carrier if you do. People need to stop grouping the military and police force together... they are NOT the same! Law enforcement is a civil position, not a military one, and you are a citizen not a soldier.
It isn't mutiny. While you desert from the military, you just quit from the police force.RelexCryo said:
Ha, unless the United States of America has suddenly become the evil dictatorship of suppress the mobsters, there won't be an order to shoot to disperse the mob.
I'd start protesting worker's rights with them. Damn workers, always trying to throw their rights around.
Nah, I'd shoot. I'm sure if I actually for some reason joined the police force, by the time I became a riot cop I'd be somewhat embittered and desensitized to violence, and then, you know, the anonymity plus mob mentality, I would end up obeying orders with the rest of them. Almost anyone would, despite the amount of people who claim they wouldn't.
Nah, I'd shoot. I'm sure if I actually for some reason joined the police force, by the time I became a riot cop I'd be somewhat embittered and desensitized to violence, and then, you know, the anonymity plus mob mentality, I would end up obeying orders with the rest of them. Almost anyone would, despite the amount of people who claim they wouldn't.
Begin throwing tear gass and shooting rubber bullets.
If it comes to that point there obviously doing something wrong.
If it comes to that point there obviously doing something wrong.
Sorry, I kinda want to keep redundancy down.Treblaine said:
Protests can turn into a riot from my perspective. Thus, from my POV, I saw this scenario being *vaguely* like the very start of the Tienanmen Square incident.
A pity you missed my edit on orders. Though you do have me on the mob mentality bit. Guess that was a poor choice of words. It's more blindly following orders. (Note that me saying that implies that the person "blindly following orders" would object on moral/legal grounds to what they are about to do)
It would depend on what they're protesting and how much they're affecting things that day. If they're disruptive, they've been asked to move, refused to go to a less disruptive location or/and they're protesting something stupid (pro-BNP or pro-PETA), then I'd happily shoot them with non-lethal rounds. Otherwise, I'd refuse on moral grounds.
Tear gas and water cannons for sure. But I wouldn't exactly go Amritsar Massacre style on them with rubber bullets (or real bullets for that matter obviously). Only if it started getting into violent riot sought of stuff though. I don't care all that much about protests. Protest all you like I encourage it in fact. I just don't want them to get all rowdy and violent.
I was in a riot in Cinci once. You could tell some of those cops, there were a few hundred, did not want to be doing that kind of duty. Some of them enjoyed it though.
First, they pulled everyone from the press away. They had arm bands that identified them as press.
I watched them pull a kid away who was sitting down in the street, giving the crowd a beat on a drum. I was on the cement as well. I had front row seats. Through the gaps in the wall of-goose stepping boots, I watched as they beat him mercilessly.
One cop stepped on his head and held it to the street. Three others worked his body. He cryed out and another cop sprayed mace directly down his throat. His screams came out in gurgles.
When I saw that I decided it was time to GTFO. I kept behind the parked cars on the steets and cut over to the next block. My friend was in the middle of the road, running. Over his shoulder, he watched a tear gas canister sail over his head. He didn't see the frightened old woman's cadillac creeping up the street.
There were protesters. There were anarchists out to cause trouble. And there were people just out in downtown cinci, minding their own business.
He ran smack into the caddy and flopped onto the hood. From my hiding spot in front of a pick up truck I glanced back at the cops. They took aim at my friend on the hood of the car.
I rushed out into the street, grabbed him by the collar of his coat and flung him towards the pick up. As I turned I could see the windshield of the woman's caddy spider web from flying bean bags and rubber bullets. I could hear the old woman's muffled screams inside her car. I made it back in front of the truck and the cops just kept pelting shots into it as we hid in front of it's grill.
Felt sorry for whoever owned the truck. That I'd chosen his and that the cops were enjoying themselves too much.
In the middle of the street I watched a kid's body dance as he was hit multiple times. He went down and they hit him some more.
When the pelting stopped, I peaked out again to find them reloading. We bailed down the block and by this time the whole place was smoked out with tear gas. I was breathing hard and that made the burning worse.
We made it another 2 blocks away and ran into the news media again. There were 3 helicopters circling over us. There were 7 of us. From all directions, enough cops to cover a city street, from sidewalk to sidewalk, shoulder to shoulder and 4 rows deep, came marching up.
We waited for them to come beat us.
Instead the chief of police came up and said we had to walk across to the kentucky border in groups of 2, "disbanding our unlawful protest," or be arrested. (we had a permit to assemble but after we did they wanted us to disband, we couldn't leave in a group, marching. That's how it all started.)
I laughed as I realized the cameras were rolling and the police were acting like police again, then walked off to kentucky. I came back an hour later and everything was pretty much business as usual.
5 bucks says I pretty much wasted my time typing this up as no one will respond to it or take away anything from it as to how those situations can really be. Such is life on the escapist.
First, they pulled everyone from the press away. They had arm bands that identified them as press.
I watched them pull a kid away who was sitting down in the street, giving the crowd a beat on a drum. I was on the cement as well. I had front row seats. Through the gaps in the wall of-goose stepping boots, I watched as they beat him mercilessly.
One cop stepped on his head and held it to the street. Three others worked his body. He cryed out and another cop sprayed mace directly down his throat. His screams came out in gurgles.
When I saw that I decided it was time to GTFO. I kept behind the parked cars on the steets and cut over to the next block. My friend was in the middle of the road, running. Over his shoulder, he watched a tear gas canister sail over his head. He didn't see the frightened old woman's cadillac creeping up the street.
There were protesters. There were anarchists out to cause trouble. And there were people just out in downtown cinci, minding their own business.
He ran smack into the caddy and flopped onto the hood. From my hiding spot in front of a pick up truck I glanced back at the cops. They took aim at my friend on the hood of the car.
I rushed out into the street, grabbed him by the collar of his coat and flung him towards the pick up. As I turned I could see the windshield of the woman's caddy spider web from flying bean bags and rubber bullets. I could hear the old woman's muffled screams inside her car. I made it back in front of the truck and the cops just kept pelting shots into it as we hid in front of it's grill.
Felt sorry for whoever owned the truck. That I'd chosen his and that the cops were enjoying themselves too much.
In the middle of the street I watched a kid's body dance as he was hit multiple times. He went down and they hit him some more.
When the pelting stopped, I peaked out again to find them reloading. We bailed down the block and by this time the whole place was smoked out with tear gas. I was breathing hard and that made the burning worse.
We made it another 2 blocks away and ran into the news media again. There were 3 helicopters circling over us. There were 7 of us. From all directions, enough cops to cover a city street, from sidewalk to sidewalk, shoulder to shoulder and 4 rows deep, came marching up.
We waited for them to come beat us.
Instead the chief of police came up and said we had to walk across to the kentucky border in groups of 2, "disbanding our unlawful protest," or be arrested. (we had a permit to assemble but after we did they wanted us to disband, we couldn't leave in a group, marching. That's how it all started.)
I laughed as I realized the cameras were rolling and the police were acting like police again, then walked off to kentucky. I came back an hour later and everything was pretty much business as usual.
5 bucks says I pretty much wasted my time typing this up as no one will respond to it or take away anything from it as to how those situations can really be. Such is life on the escapist.
