Psst he is in the friend zone

[RustlessPotato]

Because it doesn't exist.

Girls don't work like that. You don't fill up a meter by being nice and then win. You are not entitled to a girl, she doesn't owe someone anything just because he/she is nice to her. It's ridiculous. She can date whomever she wants to date and be friends with whomever she wants to be friends with. If that boy can't take it, he should end the friendship. Which means he wasn't good for her anyways because in my eyes a good partner is as much a friend as someone you love.

 

[Vegosiux]

She can date whomever she wants to date and be friends with whomever she wants to be friends with.

She can't, however, "be friends" with whoever does not want to "be friends" with her.

If that boy can't take it, he should end the friendship.

Uh I'm just going to re-quote a well written post at this point.

I think that the Friend-Zone definitely exists, but the name is certainly a misnomer.

If a man enters into a platonic relationship in a hopeless attempt to woo an otherwise uninterested woman then that is hardly what I'd call a friendship.

Similarly, if the only contact a man has with a "potential love interest" is when she wants him to preform some task for her that she cannot do for herself, then that doesn't qualify as a friendship either.

And finally, you know how in any skit that describes the Friend-Zone you'll see the guy being used as an emotional punching bag typically after carrying around all of the girl's shopping bags? Yeah?

Real friends don't do that either. Again, not a friendship.

But I guess Zone of the slimy nice guys, exploitative bitches and emotional vampires doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

This guy nailed it. See, there's more to a "friendship" than saying "Let's be friends".

 

[Hagi]

As far as I'm concerned it's just part of growing up.

Finding out what type of person is suited to you as a boyfriend/girlfriend isn't all that easy.

So you get girls picking the wrong person and complaining about always getting douchebags. And you get guys picking the wrong person and ending up in a friendly relationship that's not going anywhere.

You even get guys picking the wrong person and complaining about always getting bitches and girls picking the wrong person and ending up in a friendly relationship that's not going anywhere.

As both grow up they'll either learn to pick better suited partners or they likely end up miserable and alone after a failed marriage and who knows what other crap.

The whole matter is further complicated by shifting gender roles, some of them slowly disappearing entirely, leaving both guys and girls at a loss some times about what the hell they should be doing to attract a suitable partner.

If you're in the 'friendzone' he/she is not the guy/gal for you. Move on, evaluate what type of person would suit you and find someone else.
If you're dating a douchebag he/she is not the guy/gal for you. Move on, evaluate what type of person would suit you and find someone else.

 

[RustlessPotato]

She can date whomever she wants to date and be friends with whomever she wants to be friends with.

She can't, however, "be friends" with whoever does not want to "be friends" with her.

If that boy can't take it, he should end the friendship.

Uh I'm just going to re-quote a well written post at this point.

I think that the Friend-Zone definitely exists, but the name is certainly a misnomer.

If a man enters into a platonic relationship in a hopeless attempt to woo an otherwise uninterested woman then that is hardly what I'd call a friendship.

Similarly, if the only contact a man has with a "potential love interest" is when she wants him to preform some task for her that she cannot do for herself, then that doesn't qualify as a friendship either.

EDIT: i'm talking about real friensdhip

And finally, you know how in any skit that describes the Friend-Zone you'll see the guy being used as an emotional punching bag typically after carrying around all of the girl's shopping bags? Yeah?

Real friends don't do that either. Again, not a friendship.

But I guess Zone of the slimy nice guys, exploitative bitches and emotional vampires doesn't quite have the same ring to it, does it?

This guy nailed it. See, there's more to a "friendship" than saying "Let's be friends".

Well it's the dude's problem then. If she doesn't want more than friendship and he does, but can't take it that she doesn't want more than friendship, he should back off and look somewhere else. EDIT: i'm talking about real friensdhip


As for your second post, I agree.

 

[Nyaliva]

There's some really rather heated discussion surrounding this every time it comes up. People who complain about the friendzone are more complaining about the girls' general attitude towards men. They ask for nice guys and yet constantly go out with guys who are clearly not nice and certainly don't seem like the guy one could have a long term relationship with, then there are this group of guys the girl has termed "friendzone" who are nice by the girl's own definition and yet they won't ever consider going out with any of them.

It's obvious that there's a difference between a girl's feelings for a friend and a boyfriend but it's confusing when they have all these perfectly good guys whom they like at least enough to be their friend, whom they know well and who know them too and are defined as being "nice" and yet they won't give any of them a second look and go for a guy who's nothing like the criteria they stated, knows nothing about her and usually doesn't care enough or stay long enough to find out. So what the OP is trying to get at (or at least should be) is that girls who constantly go out with "bad boys" (I hate that term) and then complain there are no "nice" guys should first, rethink their dating strategies and criteria and second, think about their close guy friends and think who could be a suitable partner.

And don't say looks come into it, I recently started feeling romantically for a girl I know who I wouldn't have given a second look if I didn't know her as a good friend. Seriously, it's always better to be a friend first. If you can't still be friends after being together and then breaking up then you can't call them a friend.

TL;DR Our beef isn't with the friendzone, it's with the girl's attitude to dating and what she says versus what she does. For me, it makes more sense to be a friend first, if you're true friends and things don't work out, you should still be able to be friends. If it does work out, you can be one of those smug couples that say "My partner is my best friend!"

 

[Eamar]

There's some really rather heated discussion surrounding this every time it comes up. People who complain about the friendzone are more complaining about the girls' general attitude towards men. They ask for nice guys and yet constantly go out with guys who are clearly not nice and certainly don't seem like the guy one could have a long term relationship with, then there are this group of guys the girl has termed "friendzone" who are nice by the girl's own definition and yet they won't ever consider going out with any of them.

It's obvious that there's a difference between a girl's feelings for a friend and a boyfriend but it's confusing when they have all these perfectly good guys whom they like at least enough to be their friend, whom they know well and who know them too and are defined as being "nice" and yet they won't give any of them a second look and go for a guy who's nothing like the criteria they stated, knows nothing about her and usually doesn't care enough or stay long enough to find out. So what the OP is trying to get at (or at least should be) is that girls who constantly go out with "bad boys" (I hate that term) and then complain there are no "nice" guys should first, rethink their dating strategies and criteria and second, think about their close guy friends and think who could be a suitable partner.

And don't say looks come into it, I recently started feeling romantically for a girl I know who I wouldn't have given a second look if I didn't know her as a good friend. Seriously, it's always better to be a friend first. If you can't still be friends after being together and then breaking up then you can't call them a friend.

TL;DR Our beef isn't with the friendzone, it's with the girl's attitude to dating and what she says versus what she does. For me, it makes more sense to be a friend first, if you're true friends and things don't work out, you should still be able to be friends. If it does work out, you can be one of those smug couples that say "My partner is my best friend!"

[DISCLAIMER: any references to "you" in this post are not meant personally, but refer to the stereotypical guy in this scenario]

As other people have already said in this thread, the idea that a girl should be looking at her friends as potential partners because they're "nice" is problematic.

It's not necessarily to do with looks, but you do have to actually be attracted to a potential partner. You could be the best guy in the world, but if she's not attracted to you it ain't gonna happen. Why so many people can't get their heads around this is beyond me.

And about the douchebags thing: sure, some girls make bad decisions with regards to partners and should take a long hard look at why their going for the people they are. BUT, given the amount of attention this scenario gets on the internet you'd think a majority of women were falling into this trap. Pro-tip: they're not.

Think about it. You hear her talking about her boyfriend as a douche. Why is that? Most likely because you (as her FRIEND) are one of the people she goes to when things aren't all sunshine and roses. As in, when they've just split up or had an argument. She's exaggerating and emotional. Don't tell me you've never given anyone an unfair impression of someone else because you were pissed off at them. I know I have. And perhaps you hear more about this guy's bad points because she doesn't need your support when things are going great. She's (probably) not stupid, she's not likely going to be intentionally be chasing douchebag after douchebag.

And of course there's always the option that she's not actually dating douchebags at all. You're the one labelling them as such, and often in these cases "douchebag" just means "not like me." And of course it works both ways- you hear girls complaining about their guy friends' girlfriends being "bitches" and "not good enough for him." Whole lot of jealousy going on there.

As an aside, the whole "I wish I could find a nice guy like you" thing. Does this actually happen in real life (with the possible exception of high school), or is this just one of those hypothetical internet phenomena that's taken on a life of its own?

 

[Aprilgold]

'The Friend Zone' is the same as being turned down for a date, anyone who says its not a real thing need to remember when they were teens and told that they were not good enough for their lady.

What I also love about these threads is people who get mad about how people generalize woman or the OP / people who complain about friend zones as teens THEN MAKE SWEEPING GENERALIZATIONS ABOUT HOW ALL TEENS WHO COMPLAIN ABOUT FRIEND ZONES ARE WHINY, OR HATE WOMAN!

While on topic, all the straight people complaining about friend-zoning need to remember how often it happens to homosexual people.... Yeah, you 'friend-zoned' your own fair amount, haven't you?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Well maybe it just seems that way since you love acting as if you are throwing overweight people a bone by being interested in them. Yes, some overweight people like to play the victim in the exact same way some skinny people like to play the victim.

So you've gone from "this girl pulled away when I told her she was beautiful" to "this girl believes she is sexy and posts racy photos of herself on Facebook". Sorry, but I am going to have to call lying here.

What is unacceptable though is suggesting people should lower their standards and give those overweight people pity sex.

Hey, people are complex and those suggestive photos came long after we had been done dating. When did I suggest anything about pity sex? Or sex at all? Ever? This conversation is really really tiring. Here's how the original exchange went down.

Random Dude: I'm ugly and girls only like handsome guys.
Me (and what I intended to say): Maybe, but the majority of people in this world aren't what you might currently consider to be attractive. Give them a shot because you might, like me, discover that your perceived standards were initially inaccurate. Attractive people don't have to date only attractive people.

Egads. I guess I feel the need to share even more personal details of my life to a cruel stranger who only reads what he wants to read. Based off of a band I like and some shirtless photos of me on the internet, this girl contacted me first when I was too dumb to message her. Then after about three AIM conversations and a movie, she crosses over the couch to me and kisses me and I'm so stunned to react that it takes about 10 seconds for me to realize OMG A GIRL IS KISSING ME FOR THE FIRST TIME. Over the course of the next three hours, I had to figure out how the actual mechanics of making out work, while she kindly provided helpful tips during smoke breaks. It was her who had to take my hand and put it on her breast because I didn't even think to do that. Then it was her who took my hand and stuck it under her bra. And it was her who said "you want to see them?" Tell me again how that is a skinny person throwing her a bone and how I used her.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Well maybe it just seems that way since you love acting as if you are throwing overweight people a bone by being interested in them. Yes, some overweight people like to play the victim in the exact same way some skinny people like to play the victim.

So you've gone from "this girl pulled away when I told her she was beautiful" to "this girl believes she is sexy and posts racy photos of herself on Facebook". Sorry, but I am going to have to call lying here.

What is unacceptable though is suggesting people should lower their standards and give those overweight people pity sex.

Hey, people are complex and those suggestive photos came long after we had been done dating. When did I suggest anything about pity sex? Or sex at all? Ever? This conversation is really really tiring. Here's how the original exchange went down.

Random Dude: I'm ugly and girls only like handsome guys.
Me (and what I intended to say): Maybe, but the majority of people in this world aren't what you might currently consider to be attractive. Give them a shot because you might, like me, discover that your perceived standards were initially inaccurate. Attractive people don't have to date only attractive people.

Egads. I guess I feel the need to share even more personal details of my life to a cruel stranger who only reads what he wants to read. Based off of a band I like and some shirtless photos of me on the internet, this girl contacted me first when I was too dumb to message her. Then after about three AIM conversations and a movie, she crosses over the couch to me and kisses me and I'm so stunned to react that it takes about 10 seconds for me to realize OMG A GIRL IS KISSING ME FOR THE FIRST TIME. Over the course of the next three hours, I had to figure out how the actual mechanics of making out work, while she kindly provided helpful tips during smoke breaks. It was her who had to take my hand and put it on her breast because I didn't even think to do that. Then it was her who took my hand and stuck it under her bra. And it was her who said "you want to see them?" Tell me again how that is a skinny person throwing her a bone and how I used her.

Well you let her make out with you, and then you went on to brag about it to a bunch of random people on the internet. You've used her quite extensively in this thread in an attempt to try and make yourself look good.

Also, pro-tip, attractiveness is subjective. A lot of guys will say they're attracted to blondes, but honestly they don't really do it for me. Some people are attracted to overweight people, and there is nothing wrong with that. What I have a problem with is you acting like someone who is overweight cannot get a date unless someone lowers their standards.

 

[Sebass]

Me thinks there's some projection going on up in this thread.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Well you let her make out with you, and then you went on to brag about it to a bunch of random people on the internet. You've used her quite extensively in this thread in an attempt to try and make yourself look good.

Also, pro-tip, attractiveness is subjective. A lot of guys will say they're attracted to blondes, but honestly they don't really do it for me. Some people are attracted to overweight people, and there is nothing wrong with that. What I have a problem with is you acting like someone who is overweight cannot get a date unless someone lowers their standards.

Whoa now. I "let her make out with me?" I was so not used to physical affection that when we started I was shaking. And I was "bragging?" Yeah, getting to make out with a girl once before being ignored by her forever is really worth boasting about to "the guys" who honestly probably wouldn't be interested in her at all. Seriously, you are projecting now. I'm done being baited into sharing just so you can tear me down. But if I had started this post by saying that I was fat and I found out fat girls were attractive (to me), then none of this would have been a point of dispute. Because I admitted that how I look wasn't the usual physical pairing and is honestly uncommon in this world, you jumped all over me saying that I was acting like I was doing her a favor. Sure, maybe I have some sour grapes that it didn't work out, but I'm allowed to feel however the fuck I want to.

She was making out with me just as much as I was making out with her. Kissing is nice and is a mutual give/take interaction. I can't believe I have to explain that.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

Well you let her make out with you, and then you went on to brag about it to a bunch of random people on the internet. You've used her quite extensively in this thread in an attempt to try and make yourself look good.

Also, pro-tip, attractiveness is subjective. A lot of guys will say they're attracted to blondes, but honestly they don't really do it for me. Some people are attracted to overweight people, and there is nothing wrong with that. What I have a problem with is you acting like someone who is overweight cannot get a date unless someone lowers their standards.

Whoa now. I "let her make out with me?" I was so not used to physical affection that when we started I was shaking. And I was "bragging?" Yeah, getting to make out with a girl once before being ignored by her forever is really worth boasting about to "the guys" who honestly probably wouldn't be interested in her at all. Seriously, you are projecting now. I'm done being baited into sharing just so you can tear me down. But if I had started this post by saying that I was fat and I found out fat girls were attractive (to me), then none of this would have been a point of dispute. Because I admitted that how I look wasn't the usual physical pairing and is honestly uncommon in this world, you jumped all over me saying that I was acting like I was doing her a favor. Sure, maybe I have some sour grapes that it didn't work out, but I'm allowed to feel however the fuck I want to.

She was making out with me just as much as I was making out with her. Kissing is nice and is a mutual give/take interaction. I can't believe I have to explain that.

No, I'm saying you're acting like you're doing her a favor because you said she could never possibly form a relationship with anyone better than you. And yes, you let her; she may have started it, but you didn't stop it. Also, no I don't believe anything you've said is brag worthy, but you chose to brag about it anyway.

I think you're just sore over the fact she didn't want you, so you're trying to convince yourself the problem is with her. It's her fault she isn't attracted to you, and she will never be able to do any better than when she was with you, right? Surely, the problem cannot be with you, right? She just doesn't know what she is missing out on.

Sure, make up all the scenarios you wish to try and make me look like the bad guy. It's easy enough to make up all kinds of hypothetical situations. The reality is you, a skinny person, made a big deal over the fact you made out with an overweight person.

But tell me, what am I supposed to be projecting, exactly?

 

[zelda2fanboy]

No, I'm saying you're acting like you're doing her a favor because you said she could never possibly form a relationship with anyone better than you. And yes, you let her; she may have started it, but you didn't stop it. Also, no I don't believe anything you've said is brag worthy, but you chose to brag about it anyway.

I think you're just sore over the fact she didn't want you, so you're trying to convince yourself the problem is with her. It's her fault she isn't attracted to you, and she will never be able to do any better than when she was with you, right? Surely, the problem cannot be with you, right? She just doesn't know what she is missing out on.

Sure, make up all the scenarios you wish to try and make me look like the bad guy. It's easy enough to make up all kinds of hypothetical situations. The reality is you, a skinny person, made a big deal over the fact you made out with an overweight person.

But tell me, what am I supposed to be projecting, exactly?

See the two previous sentences before you ask how you are projecting. Those ones. Right there. I never said that and I never acted like that. You did. And second of all, she is missing out. I guess I could continue to feel shitty and bad about myself and useless and unlikable. There was something about me that made her want to be with me, at least for a little bit. Not you or anyone else. Me. Be it physical or my personality or anything. She liked me and while she doesn't date me anymore, she still seems to like me on a friend level. So if I'm as big a douchebag as you paint me to be, why would she have ever wanted anything to do with me and why hasn't she blocked me out of her life entirely?

You know how I feel about her being unable to form a relationship with anyone better? I feel that way about every woman on the planet. And you should, too. No woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's worthless because then by proxy it makes her feel worthless. I'm teh awesome sauce and it's unfortunate she couldn't see that. Or I could say "I'm a pathetic useless chunk of flesh and I should kill myself. You look like you want to hang out with me." Two ways of looking at it. Having a positive opinion of yourself does not make you a bad person.

 

[Eamar]

You know how I feel about her being unable to form a relationship with anyone better? I feel that way about every woman on the planet. And you should, too. No woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's worthless because then by proxy it makes her feel worthless. I'm teh awesome sauce and it's unfortunate she couldn't see that. Or I could say "I'm a pathetic useless chunk of flesh and I should kill myself. You look like you want to hang out with me." Two ways of looking at it. Having a positive opinion of yourself does not make you a bad person.

Moderation, dude. Seriously.

True, no woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's worthless, but equally no woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's god's gift.

There's a whole world of possibilities between suicidally low self-esteem and pure, mind-numbing arrogance. I've seen you exhibit both on these forums over the last few months, but you won't get anywhere until you find the middle ground. Harsh but true.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

Moderation, dude. Seriously.

True, no woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's worthless, but equally no woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's god's gift.

There's a whole world of possibilities between suicidally low self-esteem and pure, mind-numbing arrogance. I've seen you exhibit both on these forums over the last few months, but you won't get anywhere until you find the middle ground. Harsh but true.

I know it's of no importance, but I'm not what I'm like on these forums in real life. There's not much of a barrier between what's going on in my brain and what my fingers type on here. There's also a moderate degree of anonymity, so I can say whatever pops into my mind and it's of little consequence. Face-to-face however, there's about 25 years of learning how to act like a normal human being hiding that stuff.

You see, if I had never said these things out loud to strangers, it would have gone uncontested in my brain and just sat there. Then eventually it would have slipped out in one form or another, and suddenly I actually am the Biggest Douche in the Universe and not just on the internet.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

There was something about me that made her want to be with me, at least for a little bit. Not you or anyone else. Me. Be it physical or my personality or anything. She liked me and while she doesn't date me anymore, she still seems to like me on a friend level. So if I'm as big a douchebag as you paint me to be, why would she have ever wanted anything to do with me and why hasn't she blocked me out of her life.

Yeah, you went out on two dates and then she started ignoring you; that's not exactly something to brag about. It doesn't matter if she chose you, clearly something about you turned her off. Also, she seems to like you on a friend level? So you don't know for sure? Didn't you say before she had so many friends that she didn't need you. Yeah, that's a load of crap; I'm guessing she decided she did not want to be your friend, and you're just trying to make excuses for it.

Moderation, dude. Seriously.

True, no woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's worthless, but equally no woman wants to date a guy who thinks he's god's gift.

There's a whole world of possibilities between suicidally low self-esteem and pure, mind-numbing arrogance. I've seen you exhibit both on these forums over the last few months, but you won't get anywhere until you find the middle ground. Harsh but true.

Thank you, you said exactly what I was going to say on that. There is a huge difference between comfidence and arrogance; something z2f will need to learn.

 

[zelda2fanboy]

There was something about me that made her want to be with me, at least for a little bit. Not you or anyone else. Me. Be it physical or my personality or anything. She liked me and while she doesn't date me anymore, she still seems to like me on a friend level. So if I'm as big a douchebag as you paint me to be, why would she have ever wanted anything to do with me and why hasn't she blocked me out of her life.

Yeah, you went out on two dates and then she started ignoring you; that's not exactly something to brag about. It doesn't matter if she chose you, clearly something about you turned her off. Also, she seems to like you on a friend level? So you don't know for sure? Didn't you say before she had so many friends that she didn't need you. Yeah, that's a load of crap; I'm guessing she decided she did not want to be your friend, and you're just trying to make excuses for it.

I wasn't bragging, I was just talking. And when I say on a friend level, I mean she hasn't facebook blocked me, she occasionally writes nice things on my wall, and she doesn't delete my dumb comments on hers. Why you gotta be so mean? Actually forget I asked that. I'm tired of writing to you.

 

[Eamar]

I know it's of no importance, but I'm not what I'm like on these forums in real life. There's not much of a barrier between what's going on in my brain and what my fingers type on here. There's also a moderate degree of anonymity, so I can say whatever pops into my mind and it's of little consequence. Face-to-face however, there's about 25 years of learning how to act like a normal human being hiding that stuff.

You see, if I had never said these things out loud to strangers, it would have gone uncontested in my brain and just sat there. Then eventually it would have slipped out in one form or another, and suddenly I actually am the Biggest Douche in the Universe and not just on the internet.

I appreciate that people are more honest on the internet but... you don't think that if you ended up in a real relationship these things wouldn't come out? You can't hide these things from a serious partner.

Thank you, you said exactly what I was going to say on that. There is a huge difference between comfidence and arrogance; something z2f will need to learn.

Unfortunately confusion between the two is surprisingly common. It works both ways too- I bet most of the so-called "douchebags" people claim their female friends are dating are not actually douches at all, just confident. Some people seem unable to distinguish the two concepts.