Rap Music.

[SulfuricDonut]

Alternatively, rapping is usually not music, because music requires coordinating a pitch with a rhythm. Rap usually has only rhythm and no pitch, therefore is not music. The parts of a hip-hop song that are "singing" are done entirely with auto-tune anyway, which is even less musical than rap.

I know what you mean. It boggles the mind thinking about how Blink-182 got big.
It is music and there is pitch so I don't really understand what you are getting at.

Blink-182 is music and there is pitch.
Blink-182 isn't rap.

 

[Cianyx]

No, but Blink-182 has an "incoherent jumble of swears and sex references designed solely for the amusement of immature kids".

 

[zen5887]

Alternatively, rapping is usually not music, because music requires coordinating a pitch with a rhythm. Rap usually has only rhythm and no pitch, therefore is not music. The parts of a hip-hop song that are "singing" are done entirely with auto-tune anyway, which is even less musical than rap.

Oh dear..

Two kind of people discuss what music is. People who say stuff like "Music is an art form whose medium is sound" and people who say stuff like "[Western] Music is made up of Melody, Harmony, Rhythm, Timbre and form"

In either case, Hip Hop is music. The rapper themselves might not provide the the pitch (although a lot of the time they do, and its not auto-tune (don't get me started on auto-tune.. Its much more common than you think)) but the music behind them does. I don't really know how you can say that Hip Hop has no pitch.. If that were the case it would have one note through the whole song.

The problem is most of the people who don't like hip hop only hear 50c on MTV and go "Oh wow.. That sucks" and then totally dismiss the genre without hearing any of the better stuff out there. Lets switch it around and say I was listening to Metal, my friend shows me some grindcore and I go "Man.. That is gross" and I never listen to anything heavy again. I would miss out on some great tunes.

What I'm saying is - There is bad hip hop and there is great hip hop. I've said it 1000 times and I'm pretty sure I'll have to say it 1000 more times. Don't judge Hip Hop on what you see on MTV. There is amazing stuff in the underground. I know I won't change your mind but ah well..

Also - Listen to more Buck 65




I also have a bunch of songs with him playing with the Nova Scotia Symphony Orchestra.

 

[Spleenbag]

It depends, really. I personally am not a big fan of gangsta rap. In very, very, very small doses, it's perfectly fine, but it's really not my genre of choice.

Nerdcore, on the other hand, I can't get enough of (mainly an MC Frontalot fan here) because, well, it's rap style about nerdy subjects. I enjoy it.

 

[Hiphophippo]

There's good music of every genre. Sometimes it's just harder to find is all.

I hate rap cause its just a person talking really fast with a beat of three hits of the drum for 3 minutes, "singing" about either shooting people, having a lot of money, molesting women, driving fast cars, not caring about anything, and songs about how everyone doubted them but they "made it" - what they accomplished is not explained, since making a song costs about 20 bucks.

You're right. This is all rap is. It's nothing else. It never talks about serious topics, light hearted topics, or deep topics.

Man. You've got this shit in the bag.

 

[Julianking93]

Eh, its okay I guess.

I like more old school hip hop more than crap gangsta rap. Its just too much for me.

 

[Acristoff2]

I dislike rap.

 

[Fightgarr]

Wow dude those were awesome songs Cheers for the post, you've got great taste. Wish more rap songs were like this

More songs are like that. In fact, most hip-hop is of a similar level of quality. People tend not to look past what gets radio play, which is sad because you don't have to look very far beyond radio play to get to the good stuff.

Alternatively, rapping is usually not music, because music requires coordinating a pitch with a rhythm. Rap usually has only rhythm and no pitch, therefore is not music. The parts of a hip-hop song that are "singing" are done entirely with auto-tune anyway, which is even less musical than rap.

Rap has no rhythm? I call bullshit. Hip-hop is a genre entirely based on the concept of rhythm-based music. The auto-tune comment is pure unbridled ignorance, as evidenced by Jay-Z's most recent single 'Death to Autotune' in which he calls out mainstream artists on overusing it (note: mainstream does not mean all, in fact it means very little in terms of the whole genre). Stop making ill-informed statements about something you clearly haven't looked into very hard.

I'm not denying that there are a few good rap songs out there, but the general trend follows the patterns I mentioned above. Perhaps some of the songs do have meaning and are awesome despite lack of pitch. Handlebars-by Flobots for example, is one of my favorite songs because it is one of the few rap songs I could find with deep lyrics, and it doesn't need to use violent language portray it's meaning.

One of the few you could find with deep lyrics, eh? How hard have you been looking? It's incredibly easy to find hip-hop discussing mature, and relevant issues. You want to call out hip-hop on ignorance, it seems, but you seem to be entirely ignorant of hip-hop. I honestly wonder, how many hip-hop artists do you actually know? Take a look at the list of artists I have on the previous page of this thread (in the spoiler box)... give a few a listen. Hip-Hop is a huge genre and you seem to be writing it off based on a select few artists.

 

[mojopin87]

ABCDEFGHIJKLMONP

I'm quite aware that you posted based on your opinion as all music is subjective and I'm just expressing my opinion against it. Technical wise, you're right, perhaps it isn't as diverse as your conventional singing but you aren't meant to view it the same way as you view singing.

Emotional cues from the visuals? It's his album cover which remains the same throughout the video so really can't see how that makes sense. I find it emotional based on his lyrics and presentation which manages to paint wonderful pictures in my mind.

Opinion can be debated. I went to the last page, your post was up so I replied to that. No specific targeting system. You denounced it as art and made a number of generalisations which offended me so why shouldn't I respond?

I've read other posts as well, but most of them are just blatant flaming and showed that they have the intelligence of a rock covered in moss and well, I wouldn't be having this delightful conversation with them as I would be having now.

http://www.songmeanings.net/songs/view/3530822107858765294/
Hmm, try this then. I don't expect one to like everything but it would mean a lot if one could understand it.

Hmm, I will say it is very well written. If there was just a little more to it I would be more intrigued but I find the minimalist delivery to be somewhat at odds with the subject matter and lyrics. I guess its just that I find lyrics much more affecting emotionally when I get the sense the vocalist is emotionally invested in the performance, rather than just going by rote. From that point of view, its hard for me to see much emotional range in the vocals of most hip hop by comparison.

As to the visual cues thing, I got the video you posted mixed up with one put up by a different poster. Sorry about that.

The whole art thing spiel I went on wasn't really well thought out (which happens when you post when you should be asleep) and is a subjective thing anyways since the only thing people seem to agree on about art is that they don't agree on any definition lol. Thanks for the response despite my less than polite post.

Here's some examples of things I really like, one hip hop, one rock (the sound quality of the second isn't great but its my favourite take of the song):

 

[SulfuricDonut]

Rap has no rhythm? I call bullshit.

I suppose you didn't read the whole sentence then? I said rap has only rhythm, no pitch. And yes the music behind it does have pitch, but not the rap itself.

(note: mainstream does not mean all, in fact it means very little in terms of the whole genre). Stop making ill-informed statements about something you clearly haven't looked into very hard.

You can say that 3/4 of the hip-hop music you've listened to is good, and that the mainstream crap makes up the last quarter, and I'll believe you, having not listened outside the mainstream songs and only sampled the ones that you listed on a previous post (which the Blackalicious one was awesome).
--However you cannot deny that the mainstream hip-hop is only that because it is what the majority of the hip-hop listeners in the world like, compared to the other 3/4 of the hip-hop music out there which are generally unheard of because less people like them. If I have already listened to what most people consider the 'best' of hip-hop, how am I ill-informed for not having listened to the rest of it after I had already lost faith in the type of music.
If the mainstream and the other 3/4 are so drastically different, then they will eventually be divided into different genres.
That's why blues has been divided into too many genres to count. Only about 1/4 of those genres suck(Screamo)-for pretty much the same reasons that I think the mainstream hip-hop sucks, the only difference is that that the 1/4 that sucks isn't in the mainstream.
Hip-hop is newer to the world than blues, so it will take some time for it to officially split up into smaller genres, one of which we would obviously agree on to be good. Until then the mainstream and the majority of people define what 'hip-hop' is.

I could think of a million reasons to continue hating on rap, and you could think of a million reasons to argue mine but it all comes down to this.
-I like rock, you like hip-hop (perhaps you also like rock but I do not know).
-I say I am right, you say you are right.
I suppose there is no point in arguing further since neither of us are going to change the other's mind anyway.

 

[slabomeat]

Search...Button.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

I dislike it as a genre, but like some rap. For example, I love the song "Where'd You Go?" by Fort Minor, but for every song I hear of that quality, I hear a million "Crank Dat Solja Boy"s.

I do quite like Alternative Hip Hop though. Flobots, Gorrilaz- fuckin' A++

 

[clairedelune]

However you cannot deny that the mainstream hip-hop is only that because it is what the majority of the hip-hop listeners in the world like, compared to the other 3/4 of the hip-hop music out there which are generally unheard of because less people like them. If I have already listened to what most people consider the 'best' of hip-hop, how am I ill-informed for not having listened to the rest of it after I had already lost faith in the type of music.
If the mainstream and the other 3/4 are so drastically different, then they will eventually be divided into different genres.
That's why blues has been divided into too many genres to count. Only about 1/4 of those genres suck(Screamo)-for pretty much the same reasons that I think the mainstream hip-hop sucks, the only difference is that that the 1/4 that sucks isn't in the mainstream.
Hip-hop is newer to the world than blues, so it will take some time for it to officially split up into smaller genres, one of which we would obviously agree on to be good. Until then the mainstream and the majority of people define what 'hip-hop' is.

I could think of a million reasons to continue hating on rap, and you could think of a million reasons to argue mine but it all comes down to this.
-I like rock, you like hip-hop (perhaps you also like rock but I do not know).
-I say I am right, you say you are right.
I suppose there is no point in arguing further since neither of us are going to change the other's mind anyway.

It's not really about what everyone considers is the best hiphop, it's about radio playability. If I listened to a top 40 station, which is usually filled with that kind of hip hop, then i'd also hear a lot of rock music. I really doubt that rock fans consider Nickelback the best they have to offer, despite the amount of top 40 songs that the band gets.
There are subgenres of hip-hop. Not as many subgenres as rock has, but they exist. I don't think the point of most of the rap listeners in the thread is to convert everyone to liking rap, but it's to try and get people to stop saying "i hate rap because i hate soulja boy//i hate rap because its all about money and bitches" and start saying "I hate party rap/mainstream rap/gangsta rap."
I love rap and hip hop, but I hate party rap. Because yeah, it does lack substance and it is really obnoxious. Don't knock the genre as a whole though unless youve listened to other sub genres of it and hate them too. I hate the jonas brothers//all american rejects//nickelback because I think they lack substance. I don't hate rock music as a whole though just because that is the rock that music industry pushes at us.

sidenote: I'm referring to the american top 40 stations/lists, it may be different for you according to what country you are in.

Also, someone said that without singing, even good lyrics lose emotional depth. I disagree with that personally, I think that when you get the sensation that someone is kind of speaking directly to you it can hold a lot of weight. But that's just me.

 

[Supreme Unleaded]

Pretty much the only rap artist that i like is Eminem, he's got a good amount of good songs and recently Till I Colaplse as hooked my like heroine, im always listeing to it.

But the whole other area of the genra i seem to dislike, the songs that are all about rape and drugs and shit just get really annoying.

And BTW, you don't need to swear to make a point.

EDIT: Just looked up a bit and found all the links, im now hooked on Buck 65, Hilltop Hoods, and a few others i found on youtube while browsing. Thanks for the links guys.

 

[Low Key]

...but for every song I hear of that quality, I hear a million "Crank Dat Solja Boy"s.

That's because that is the type of music played in the clubs. The radio only plays music that panders to the tastes of that particular setting for the most part. Those of us who actually like the genre dislike that junk too.

Rhymesayers Entertainment as a whole pretty much makes the style of rap I think you'd like.

Spoiler

I tried to put the best one first in each.

Spoiler: Atmosphere

Spoiler: Brother Ali

Spoiler: P.O.S.

 

[2012 Wont Happen]

...but for every song I hear of that quality, I hear a million "Crank Dat Solja Boy"s.

That's because that is the type of music played in the clubs. The radio only plays music that panders to the tastes of that particular setting for the most part. Those of us who actually like the genre dislike that junk too.

Rhymesayers Entertainment as a whole pretty much makes the style of rap I think you'd like.

Spoiler

I tried to put the best one first in each.

Spoiler: Atmosphere

Spoiler: Brother Ali

Spoiler: P.O.S.

What I heard so far was pretty good. Thanks.

 

[funguy2121]

I was listening to some music earlier, and I'll admit I'm a huge rap fan, and I notice a lot of Escapists' are against rap as a whole. Can anyone give me some reasons for the rap hate?

The videogame demographic. That's your answer. Adolescent white kids, by and large. It's the same reason any "women and gaming" thread is cursed by virgin trolls (as well of a lack of search bar approval). I differentiate "geek" from "nerd" by an embracing of one's own akwardness and an open mind toward the different with the geeky, as opposed to a sort of arrogance occasionally bleeding over into elitism (toward Pokemon, no less) with the nerdy. And there's more nerds than geeks playing videogames. So less Mos Def and more Rush, Muse, Metallica, etc.

But I could be wrong.

 

[Cianyx]

Reply

Haha, no worries man. Mark my words, you will like it.


Someday =p

 

[ae86gamer]

I'm also a huge fan of rap. But I don't like metal. And a lot of 'scapist members do. :O