Regarding Santa Claus [NO KIDS ALLOWED]

[quantumsoul]

Believing in Santa was fun and made Christmas more exciting. If I have kids someday I might play along for a while at first. If my future kids ask a lot of questions I may have to tell them the truth then. I questioned it quite a bit too. Wasn't a shock that he wasn't real.

 

[DeltaEdge]

So basically what your saying is, just because your fine with knowing that the world isn't sugar-coated from a young age and feel that it is, or was, rather insulting for your parents to expect you to entertain the notion of fairy tales and tall tales such as Santa, all kids should do the same as you, and all kids should become dull, mindless automatons with no dreams, and know that there is no point to their meager, short lives and they might as well all be dead because it wouldn't affect anyone in the least and if it did, they would someday die as well and they would be forgotten too? Wow, I wish the doctor had pulled the trigger on my infant head before I opened my eyes..
People like fantasies such as these because they serve as an escape from reality and they are fun. When I have kids, I don't want them to think that there's nothing special about this world, because otherwise, what's the point of having them? Sorry I'm not such a morbid person that I would go so far as to tell my 3 year old son on Christmas day, "There's no such thing as Santa Claus nor is there any meaning in being disillusioned. You life is pointless and you have no reason to live. I got you a loaded gun for Christmas and some cyanide pills, go crazy." Maybe I want my kids to be happy and not depressed from an early age with no will to live.
BTW, if you really think it's an outrage that parents tell their kids that Santa is real, then why does the thread title say [NO KIDS ALLOWED?]. It would serve your "Destroy kids hopes and dreams" campaign quite well for them to read this thread and realize that none of the things they thought were real are real.
I'm fine with you not liking that your parents lied to you about Santa, but why ruin it for everyone else?

 

[ZeroMachine]

Do me a favour for a second. Take a look at a map. Pretty colorful isn't it? Look at all those names too.

Happen to notice theres not a great many places left that we as a species haven't discovered yet? Back in the days before mass communication or international travel, people were frightened, they were excited, they were inspired to go out into the bigger world and travel.
Through that exploration and the imagination it took to do so, Mankind became the master of Earth, answerable only to Nature itself, but all that came at a price.

The more we explored, the more we realised the Monopods weren't really there, the dragon's didn't terrorise the seas and that the Northern Lights were not the heralds of the gods. Through our discoveries and the knowledge that came with them, we took the magic out of the world.

Now I don't know you, so I have no idea what your opinion on children or education or creativity are, but do you really want to take away that small piece of magic and imagination a harmless tradition like Santa Claus brings to a child? Children are not stupid, nor do they deserve to be treated as such due solely to their age. Sooner or later they will learn the truth, but to take away that imagination and hope from one so young just seems so cold and cruel.

This is probably the best way to put it.

I was brought up with "The Santa Claus Myth". And want to know what happened when I and many others found out it was just that?

We moved the fuck on with our lives.

Some kids I knew cried a bit.

But then they moved the fuck on.

People who hold onto some strange distrust for their parents over something like Santa Clause that, with just some very bare-bones research, is obviously a massive world wide tradition that isn't meant to offend or truly deceive anyone, are rather immature. Especially if they hold onto that distrust past high school.

Now, I've dealt with a mother that can only be described as a "passive aggressive *****" who has made up complete bullshit and warped the truth the get her way and win arguments that I should have won. Try dealing with that.

Or, try dealing with my ex girlfriend's mother, who lied to her about everything, manipulated her on multiple occasions, talked about things that were very private and personal to her to random people (one such secret eventually made it's way to me which shouldn't have even been possible), and many more things. She was even physically abusive at times.

To anyone that bitches and moans about "not trusting their parents" because of the fucking Santa Claus myth... kiss my ass and the ass of everyone that grew up with it and ended up fine, or who deals with actually dishonest parents.

I'm a realist myself. But I believe that giving kids something mystical to look forward to every once in a while is important to a point. And yeah, it kinda helps instill morals. Just as long as you explain the real reason why they should be good, doesn't mean you can't back it up with a little story or mysticism.

I don't want my future kids (if I decide to have them) to grow up being jaded cynics.

 

[ZeroMachine]

*snip*

That... was beautiful.

 

[Craorach]

The reasons people do the Santa thing are simply.

1. More so than ever before, there is the false presumption that childhood is some magical wonderful time. It's not, it's the process of becoming an adult, which is a functional member of society. The purpose of being a child, is to become an adult, nothing else. "Childhood" goes on longer than ever before at this stage, and many attempts are made to prevent children from realising the true nature of the world... Santa is one of those attempts.

2. Santa displaces anger from parents who buy the wrong thing or can't afford exactly what the child wants.

3. Santa allows someone else to take the "blame" for punishing their children's bad behaviour. "See, Janey, Santa thinks you're bad.".. except Santa never does. Santa always brings presents no matter how good the child is, they only don't bring presents the parents can't afford.

Ultimately, it's a fundamentally flawed concept that the toy company's adore. Santa doesn't teach bad kids they are bad and reward good kids... he teaches poor kids they are bad, and rewards rich kids.

 

[Phlakes]

Regarding imagination... why do people do it? Why do people, year after year, bullshit their kids into believing that they can be rich and famous, or some kind of hero like a firefighter? Why do that?

Why don't people just outright tell their kids they're destined to work in retail and marry a douchebag and get it over with?

 

[Necrofudge]

I honestly never thought anyone could be serious about it. I knew there wasn't a Santa since the day I was told there was a Santa. Then again, my parents never cared much about keeping up the illusion.

Maybe other parents feel that they need to keep their children in a fantasy world that the parents never got when they were young.

Or maybe nobody can resist the chance to troll their children while they're still young and gullible.

 

[putowtin]

Regarding Santa Claus ... why do people do it?
Also, no, you may not turn this into a religious debate comparing it to God/Jesus/Moses/Mohammad/etc. We're talking about Santa, not God.

Saint Nicholas a Bishop known for secret gift-giving, such as putting coins in the shoes of those who left them out for him, and thus became the model for Santa Claus.

Not comparing just mentioning it.

we tell children about Santa just as we decorate a tree, eat christmas pudding and buy dad's socks.
It's traditional, it's something passed down through the ages as part of our christmas celebrations.

Do most kid's know about the history of St Nic? Probably not.
Do most kid's know that the celebrations now known as christmas were a pagan celebration? Probably not.
Knowing this as an adult does it stop you from getting together with friends and celebration? Probably not.

Let kid's enjoy it all, before they grow up and have to face the real world.

 

[Headdrivehardscrew]

As with everything, when humans are involved, things tend to get a bit fuzzy.

I like the variations I've seen in Europe. Yes, Santa does wear the classic Red'n'White combo, but he doesn't come alone. Usually, there's a more or less docile donkey for the full effect and some strategic poop, and there's a helper going by varying local names who usually wears a black or brown coat, in stark contrast to Santa's appearance. They're also not involved in any break-and-enter chimney action. They pop up, parents bring their kids to them, and kids who haven't been all good might fear the birch or the big bag, but still get a chance at making up by showing up and reciting a poem or singing a song. The focus is really on being good, doing good and getting rewarded for it.

If we were to deconstruct it and boil it down to its basics, it's mostly about spreading some free food. Think mandarines or oranges, and peanuts. Also, gingerbread, chocolate, or other, generally non-branded sweets and treats. It's about spreading some foody goodness, especially, but not limited to, those who can't afford it or are otherwise lacking. It also brings people together who might otherwise not mingle, and it all takes place outside of a church or temple or political context.

Our grandmother, who died on December 6 last year, had three sons. One Dec. 6 in the early fifties, the oldest brother recognized Santa as being a friend of the family. He wondered about it but couldn't quite figure it out. So he went to ask his mother about it. "Santa comes to those kids that believe in him", she told him. Well, that was how the oldest of the three stopped believing, but in order not to destroy the illusion, the aura of magic that still brought sparkles to the eyes of his brothers, he played along, and he enjoyed seeing his kid brothers innocent happiness and joy even though times were tough. The next year, the brother in the middle recognized Santa. But the youngest of the three still had some years in which he could look forward to meet Santa, proud of having been a good boy, learning some song or poem by heart, not fearing to be put in the bag and taken away by Santa's grumpy helper. So the older two brothers were keeping mum about it, and they both grew with their responsibility, and the potential power to ruin it for the baby one. It's about love, you see?

It's a very down-to-earth approach to making things a little bit better. There's nothing about trolls or elves or other mythical creatures there. It's also far from being a consumerist excercise in decadence. It's not about fizzy water, and it's not about lying. The latter is an interpretation that actually bothers me, and makes me pity those who chose to see it that way, for it manifests a cultural vacuum that will inevitably be filled with something... well, probably less wholesome.

I think the execution of Santa sitting down at the mall lacks a lot in style, but I'd like to think even that works for a lot of kids, so that's OK.

It's only in part the failure of parents who simply don't seem to bother to figure it out anymore that all it takes is a suit, an uncle or friendly neighbour, some fruit and nuts, maybe a candle or two to bring some peace and warmth and happiness to kids and grownups that might not be too blessed for the rest of the year. We're losing integral parts of our culture year after year, but I think it's really important to just think about the thought, the notion, the intention, the purpose at the core of it all. Think about the family being together for Thanksgiving and/or Christmas or any other event that intends to bring a family together. Life's bloody short, and I just think it's nice to cherish the moments you're granted to let go a bit and just focus on making the moment as smooth and perfect and enjoyable as possible.

If you fail to see even that basic little fact, then I think your hatred for what might very well be your own culture makes you blind to what it means to be human. But that's just black'n'white me, everyone looks grey at times.

 

[The Virgo]

Look this does not matter if it is truth fiction real or fake this santa clause was once adopted as a story of old saint nick from germany where the parents were to poor to promote such an idea where saint nick was an old toy maker that whittled in his free time he gave his creations to kids when he passed by nothing more he became over glorified by being dubbed a saint after his death and renamed santa clause when translated is saintly cause. now it is used to promote consumerism on winter solstice pagan holiday later made to be hedonistic then was made to be christian based giving underlying "tones." Anger is unnecessary in this I personally do not celebrate any holiday due to my religious beliefs saying why have festivities on one given day why can it not be every day what make this day different and don't say christmas cheer or some nonsense like that.

I see Santa didn't give you any punctuation marks for Christmas.

Haha, What? Really, you pity the guy that finds joy in the little things while you're over there thinking that being a cynical egotistical "realist" on every small children's fairytale is the proper way to live a life?

Yeah, I'm envious of you. Sounds like you really are living large over there bud.

I am, actually. What about it? And if it weren't for us cynics, there would be 50 suckers every minute born and 232 to take them.

Hating and questioning every pointless tradition, holiday, and mythical creatures just to prove that you're somehow smarter for pointing out why simple fun things that have never harmed anyone (except you, from the sounds of it) is a laughably pointless way to lead your life.

No, I wasn't harmed by it, but I'm a bit disappointed in my parents who, when I confronted them and told them to tell me the truth about Santa many, many years ago, still lied to me. Bastards.

*snip*

Well hello, JoJo, we meet again.

Hmmm, that's a pretty interesting quote you have there. Of course, I have to wonder, won't the child feel even more bitter after seeing Santa proven to exist in that quote? Maybe she will, maybe she won't. How long ago was that from?

But, name me one person you know who grew up with psychological problems because their parents pervaded a myth.

Well, Ed Gein grew up being raised by a sadistic, religious mother who had him believe that all men were sex-addicts and sinners (not trying to overstep my own rules, just stating a fact). He then became a necrophile and grave robber who made furniture and other things out of skin and body parts (like a belt made of nipples and a lampshade made of skin) and killed two women. Not comparable with Santa, of course, that wasn't my intention at all, but that was a myth he grew up with and it made him insane. Also, Ted Bundy was supposedly abused by his grandfather and was told that his mother was actually his sister and, as a result, felt lied to and angry. We all know how well that worked out. Again, not even comparable with Santa and I would berate anyone who would make a comparison, but you said people who grew up with psychological problems due to believing a myth and Gein is a fine example. Psychological problems because of Santa, though? Not very likely. Bitterness or slight anger? Possible.

Its just harmless fun. Its not tricking you, cause no kid ever actually gets coal. It is something magical for the children and the parent. Have you ever see a child on Christmas morning? I tell you, that sight warmed my cold, black heart. I consider myself a cynic much like you, but this is one issue where I will happily side with the masses. It is something beautiful.

Really? Parents don't actually give coal? Huh. If I had a kid whom I had taught the Santa tradition to and he had been an annoying brat all year, I would put some charcoal in his stocking.

And while I don't doubt that, for some like you, the sight of a magic-filled child on Christmas morning would be a heartwarming scene, I would probably sit there wondering when the hell it was going to be over so I could leave and buy games on Steam on sale for super cheap! Now that's something I believe in! GABEN CLAUS! He has a workshop in Bellevue, Washington and his helpers are programmers, mappers, hat makers and people who run Steam! And the reason he's fat is because he goes around eating all of the milk and cookies! XD

*Episode Three gets put on hold for 50,000 years*

Plus, I remember when I was a kid, one kid in our class had parents like yourself. They always told him that Santa is not real. He grew up pretty much unharmed by it, (his asbergers syndrome, I assume, is unrelated) ...

Tonight on Jerry Springer: I got asbergers from not believing in Santa! XD Sorry, I had to do that! Please continue.

... but one day, he was feeling spiteful, and to a class filled with little kids who were incredibly excited for the arrival of Santa Claus, announced that he was not real. I think we all had an inkling by this stage, (I know I did) but this was the straw that broke the camels back. We were all very angry and very upset.

If your objective is to prevent this from happening, then fair enough. But always remember, if you do this, your child could end up being that jealous, vindictive, asshole that just had to spoil it for everyone.

Well, he certainly was a buzz-killer. That's why I at least put the [NO KIDS ALLOWED] notice on the thread topic. That way, if they come on here and see the "awful" truth, it won't really be my fault. Nor anyone's fault who posted here.

But that's my problem with children and why I don't want any. There's no way to correctly raise one. Something that may not even remotely bother one child may turn one into a paranoid schizophrenic. Let me give you an example:

- "Acid Bath Murderer" John Haigh, as a child, ran outside after a WWII bombing at his London home. The bomb came with "a horrifying shriek, and as I staggered up, bruised and bewildered, a head rolled against my foot." Joel Peter Witkin, a well-known artist who's work is admittedly gruesome but fascinating, experienced the same event after witnessing a car accident. So what makes one person become a serial killer, and another a famous artist? -

link: http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/notorious/tick/events_5.html

There's just no right way to raise a child. Hence why I don't want one.

 

[kouriichi]

When i have a son or daughter, im going to trick him/her into thinking im Santa. Say "I'll be back in the morning" and go out the door with a big sack on christmas eve night. ((And then climb in through my bedroom window and go to bed.))

Show up in the morning with snow on my boots, the smell of deer on my clothes and the last few presents in my bag. Then when they think im Santa, i'll tell them you, "cant tell anyone, not even your mother "

Childhood is about fantasy and whimsy. You have to build up all that happiness, so when the soul crushing depression that is High School bares down on you, you have a nice little reserve to fall on. Besides, whats more fun then saying the stupidest thing you can think of to a child and they believe it. "Yeah, People in China have to walk on their hands. If they let go, they fall into space! D: See, the world is a Dodecaoctahedron. And babies come from space! Theyre hidden inside Meteorites!" /worst father ever

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

Regarding Santa Claus ... why do people do it? Why do people, year after year, bullshit their kids into believing that there is Santa? Why do that?

The only real reason I can see is to instill the fear of a higher authority at a young age (he sees you when you're sleeping, he knows when you're awake. He know's if you've been bad or good, SO BE GOOD FOR GOODNESS SAKE.) and, by telling them that being naughty results in no presents, forces them to be nice for some higher power.

Why don't people just outright tell their kids there is no Santa and get it over with?

Also, no, you may not turn this into a religious debate comparing it to God/Jesus/Moses/Mohammad/etc. We're talking about Santa, not God. Debates between atheists and believers never become more than flame-wars. Thank you for keeping it nice.

Pretty much sums it up for everyone I know.

 

[Silas13013]

Interesting, because when I suddenly realized that Santa was a fake, I disdained my parents for having lied to me even when I confronted them and told them to tell me honestly if there was a Santa ... and disdained myself for having been a putz to believe it for 13 years. In fact, I still hate them a little for it. And every Christmas since then has been a bland, boring time of the year, marked only by cold weather.

Spoiler: That being said, this is now my favorite Christmas song[/QUOTE

Here is the heart of the thread. We have a child who never managed to get over the fact he believed in a fairy tale and is thinks everyone else should share in his misery. You sir, need to learn to grow up before telling other people how to raise their kids.

 

[ryuksapple]

I never really believed in Santa and my parents never really tried to make me believe in Santa. I appreciate that. I grew up on the notion that hard work and intelligence (at that time defined by good grades)were what got me ahead and earned me those rewards at the end of the year. Instead of a obedience, I learned to question everything and sought to understand all of the answers to my questions. The only thing I didn't appreciate was putting up with all of my peers who did believe. I remember a handful of heated arguments on the school bus during kindergarten about how what Santa did would be physically impossible, but of course nobody believed me and I guess I never really expected them to. Same sort of went for the Easter Bunny, dragons, unicorns, game/tv/movie characters.

For some reason, they told me all of that but decided to tell me that the tooth fairy was real. When I eventually came to my senses, I was just a tad annoyed that they lied to me. In the end, I decided to let that one go. I guess it's really just a way for adults to give children the occasional dollar without getting them thinking that they can get that dollar anytime they like. Christmas, however, is a set holiday that happens at the same time every year and is celebrated through gift giving among both children and adults. I probably would have been a bit more annoyed if they told me that lie.

As for that ruining creativity, I have to disagree. Though I guess you wouldn't expect anything different. For what it's worth, I'm still pursuing a career in the arts. If anything, I would say it would have an effect on how you view art or other creative mediums. I know some just look at it for the entertainment value or how much imagination went into it. I personally look for passion, feeling, or something more grounded in reality. Maybe the two are completely unrelated. Who am I to say?

As far as any future children (God forbid), I probably just wouldn't talk to them about Santa. I'll just let them watch the Christmas specials on TV and hear the close encounter stories of their friends and let them decide what they believe.

 

[Twilight_guy]

Because kids like the idea of Santa and its tradition and part of our culture... (well my culture, I obviously don't know exactly about you). Also, your thread strikes me as a "why doesn't everyone do what I think is right!" thread and that perturbs me. People can say what they want to their kids and you don't have the authority to make a value judgment on that. You have even less authority to pass a value judgement on a part of culture and say the tradition of Santa is wrong or bad or shouldn't exist.

 

[Athlos]

santa is all about the advertising on tv, and any parents who do buy stuff for their kids with their money, just cause they asked santa, means that those kids will thank some guy in a red suit, not the those who went to the trouble of buying the crap they asked for.

 

[The Virgo]

When I found out Santa wasn't real, the earth never moved, and the sky never fell. Is it a lie? Sure. But so is the Tooth Fairy, the Easter Bunny, Creationism ...

HEY, HEY, HEY - I said no turning this into a debate about God. Mentioning that Santa came from Bishop St. Nicholas or that Ed Gein's mother was a sadistic religious woman (see my above post) is different as it doesn't relate to God. Debates about God never result to anything more than flame wars.

Thank you. You may continue.

Even now, Santa Claus represents the spirit of Christmas. An old man who goes around the world giving toys to all the children of the world for free and spending the whole year making them all is the perfect metaphor for the exact meaning of Christmas: GENEROSITY.

Actually, it seems to be a metaphor for slave labor (all those elves) in poor working conditions (the North Pole) with poor captured animals that are forced to carry a fat man and his sleigh all over the world in one night! And how do they eat? I haven't seen any hay in the North Pole. And I don't see Santa sharing any cookies and milk with those elves!

Poor elf bastards. Only death can end their suffering. <:'-(


HAHAHA! XD I'm just kidding! ;-) But yeah, I do see the connection. You know, now that I look back, I always asked for toys I saw in the store, so I guess I figured that Santa didn't actually have a workshop, but more like a huge shipping facility out in the North Pole. Funny, you never think about those kinds of things until you're older.

Plus: IT'S FUN. You remember fun, right?

Yeah, I remember fun. I still have fun. And I suppose it's fun while it lasts.