Religion clashes with Laws

[Lullabye]

I'm an Atheist.... What would i swear on? Shakespeare, some moralist philosopher? I think i would just give my word as a human, as i dont need the threat of divine retribution to be honest.

Funny. That's just what Jesus said. "Just let your 'Yes' mean 'Yes.' Let your 'No' mean 'No.'"

"spare the rod< spoil the child" how could you not interpret that to mean "beat der shit outta your kid if he dun gone give you attsitude.

It's easy to misinterpret if you are culturally ignorant of the times in which that was written. It's written for a bunch of people who kept livestock. The "rod" is the rod used to guide sheep. In other words, a parent has the obligation to teach and guide their children or they'll grow up to be jerks. Quite possibly one of the most misunderstood passages, along with "turning the other cheek". It does not refer to letting people beat you some more. It's a demand to be treated as an equal and has specific meaning to those living under Roman occupation.

I don't think many of you understand what the Judeo-Christian ethic did for the West. You have to understand that even the Romans had no *moral* imperative against killing. Oh, there were people it was against the law to kill, but that was because of who they were, not because killing was *wrong*. A Roman father could kill his children for any reason.

The concept of charity also comes from religion. Even ancient religions had put forth the idea of caring for the poor and the weak. (Something I don't think is coincidence.)

I would never argue that religion has not been used to kill lots of people, but neither Pol Pot nor Stalin had "religion," yet they managed to do quite nicely in that department. Indeed, I find those examples more disturbing since they are more recent. One could argue that Spanish Conquistadors at least had cultural and historical ignorance on their side.

funny, that s what my religion teacher said. "the rod is meant to guide us like sheep". the key word being sheep.
also, religion isn't the problem. Most religions are very good and if practiced well, can lead to a very happy and full life. but unfortunately, we're human. So almost anything we create or do with good intentions has some sorta negative side effect because some other idiot abuses the system.

 

[Raregolddragon]

Relgion is like a out dated computer from the 1990's its to old to work in the real world anymore and can't work with any thing elase.

So like most outdated computres its time to throw it out.

 

[Rajin Cajun]

"I didn't know that shooting up schools is illegal here! I did it all the time in my old country - it's part of my religion!"

;/

That was pretty epic.

 

[Aggrax]

Most of these people seem to be forgetting that this country (well, the one I'm in) was founded on a faith in God. While to some this may have no relevance at all, but the very court system we use is also based on God. You must be sworn in when you give your testimony. Some of you may be atheist (more than likely all of you), but it's not your choice to make. The way you were raised is no different in the way they were raised. It's kinda hard to break away from a religion that is your life, doncha think?

I'm going to assume your country in America, in which case I laugh at you

http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20050406.html

 

[jasoncyrus]

Actually it was founded as a british colony and even by that time we were more afraid of our vengenful monarchy than we were our priests, who we had pretty much told to take a hike by that time.

And as for breaking away from a religion, it's not hard to break away from a cult based on lies, deceit, homophobia and predjudice against things you don't understand. (re:"witchcraft")

 

[teisjm]

Law > relegion any day

whoever said it's just part of her relegion is an ignorant asshole

 

[BubbleGumSnareDrum]

Religion should never be a part of modern legal practice.

I find it disgusting, the number of people who subscribe to religions that blatantly hate everyone else.

All organized religions have the same objective, anyway; gain followers, make money, establish broad social control. Christianity is just as evil and wrong as Islam is.

 

[Arca]

Religion has it's place in the world, as does the law, however the two should work side by side.
for example, in the UK members of Islam are trying to get Shi'ite law for people of their religion, However would a panel of respected community elders throwing rocks at a woman for adultery ever be seen as something we would be used to. No, In my view people can have their respective views however when it comes to law vs relgion the law will always be an over powering party. Other wise why isn't stoning a woman for adultery then punishable by UK law for the people who threw the stones.

 

[Azraellod]

Religion has it's place in the world, as does the law, however the two should work side by side.
for example, in the UK members of Islam are trying to get Shi'ite law for people of their religion, However would a panel of respected community elders throwing rocks at a woman for adultery ever be seen as something we would be used to. No, In my view people can have their respective views however when it comes to law vs relgion the law will always be an over powering party. Other wise why isn't stoning a woman for adultery then punishable by UK law for the people who threw the stones.

this is a good perspective. i think the theory is, religeon = morality, and law = the rules. the rules are generally held above morality, and that is how it should be.

now some people may not believe that this is the case, but if you break the rules to obey your morality, you have to face the consequences. the law of a specific area overrules morality.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Religion has it's place in the world, as does the law, however the two should work side by side.
for example, in the UK members of Islam are trying to get Shi'ite law for people of their religion, However would a panel of respected community elders throwing rocks at a woman for adultery ever be seen as something we would be used to. No, In my view people can have their respective views however when it comes to law vs relgion the law will always be an over powering party. Other wise why isn't stoning a woman for adultery then punishable by UK law for the people who threw the stones.

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

Shi-ite law is a farce supported only by unevolved neanderthals who are too scared of their wives telling people about their tiny genitalia. Seriously, how retarded do you have to be to actually support that rubbish? I say we take every person who lets their religious beliefs affect their logical reasoning skills when it comes to law...and flog them. Flog them till they realise fiction has no place in our modern courtrooms.

But that mini rant may have been slightly misdirected there.

My point was supposed to be about how christianity and islam are the same religions with different names. Both are equally evil and both deserve to be exterminated from the face of this earth since they've caused....99% of the current major social problems in our world atm that don't revolve around criminal acts (although theres a fair share of crimes that are their fault too).

this is a good perspective. i think the theory is, religeon = morality, and law = the rules. the rules are generally held above morality, and that is how it should be.

No, if religion is morality then it is morally right to be a chauvanistic racist predjudice bigot.

Religion is just a cowards excuse for trying to say someone is a "Bad person".

Morality is the principle of right and wrong. If you need a book or religion to tell you what is right and wrong...then you don't know what is right or wrong at all.

 

[Azraellod]

this is a good perspective. i think the theory is, religeon = morality, and law = the rules. the rules are generally held above morality, and that is how it should be.

No, if religion is morality then it is morally right to be a chauvanistic racist predjudice bigot.

Religion is just a cowards excuse for trying to say someone is a "Bad person".

Morality is the principle of right and wrong. If you need a book or religion to tell you what is right and wrong...then you don't know what is right or wrong at all.

really??? ok, fine. im fairly certain i know what is right and wrong, i just thought that that was how it was supposed to work. i really havnt learned much from my re lessons if this is the case, but then my teacher is an idiot anyway.

still, the idea is still there. law > religion

EDIT: oh, sorry arca if i misinterpreted your post with my comment

EDIT 2: im curious jasoncyrus, do you actually know what bigot means??? cos either you dont, or you are a massive hypocrit

look it up on google, then come back and go over what you said

 

[LisaB1138]

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

 

[PlasticPorter]

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

naw dog naw
religion was created by the man to kill babies and control people
it couldn't possibly have any other motives.

I love it when morons like jasoncyrus above have such appallingly close minded and STUPID ideas and effectively prove themselves more insular and uninformed than the most conservative christian or muslim.

 

[neuromasser]

Religion is the province of weak minded. (btw I know I'm not contributing to the thread)

 

[jasoncyrus]

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

naw dog naw
religion was created by the man to kill babies and control people
it couldn't possibly have any other motives.

I love it when morons like jasoncyrus above have such appallingly close minded and STUPID ideas and effectively prove themselves more insular and uninformed than the most conservative christian or muslim.

Oh really, this coming from someone who hasn't even asked for proof. I could simpy go over how they react the same way to the same gorups. how they treated women the same, both chauvanistic, both egotistical, both homophobic, both slaughtered billions of innocents for not being part of their religion.

the list goes on and on and on.

It is not I who is uninformed. It is YOU friend who has failed to see the facts. But why bother trying to reason with closed minded people who refuse to look beyond the surface of something and see the details, the big picture as it were.

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

To you i say the same as the previous, If you'd bothered to do ANY research on both of them in a long term time scale and theological evolution, you'll see they both follow the same path. Only difference is one happens in the third world, the other in the developed world.

Feel free to keep being arrogant and ignorant of such things, you're doing a *bang up job* of making yourselves look foolish.

@Azraellod: Looked it up just to be sure and guess what! that describes BOTH religion *perfectly*.

I'm allowed to be hypocritical, I dont worship a religion that butchered billions of people for being different.

 

[PlasticPorter]

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

naw dog naw
religion was created by the man to kill babies and control people
it couldn't possibly have any other motives.

I love it when morons like jasoncyrus above have such appallingly close minded and STUPID ideas and effectively prove themselves more insular and uninformed than the most conservative christian or muslim.

Oh really, this coming from someone who hasn't even asked for proof. I could simpy go over how they react the same way to the same gorups. how they treated women the same, both chauvanistic, both egotistical, both homophobic, both slaughtered billions of innocents for not being part of their religion.

the list goes on and on and on.

It is not I who is uninformed. It is YOU friend who has failed to see the facts. But why bother trying to reason with closed minded people who refuse to look beyond the surface of something and see the details, the big picture as it were.

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

To you i say the same as the previous, If you'd bothered to do ANY research on both of them in a long term time scale and theological evolution, you'll see they both follow the same path. Only difference is one happens in the third world, the other in the developed world.

Feel free to keep being arrogant and ignorant of such things, you're doing a *bang up job* of making yourselves look foolish.

@Azraellod: Looked it up just to be sure and guess what! that describes BOTH religion *perfectly*.

I'm allowed to be hypocritical, I dont worship a religion that butchered billions of people for being different.

So because someone is a christian or muslim and they commit atrocities it is the religions fault and not their own?
thats rich, maybe if a someone listens to music with violent lyrics and kills someone we should put the musician on trial and not the one who comitted the crime. I'll rephrase my previous remark about you being uninformed, your logic is just broken. So let me help your small brain along with this tidbit of information. Morally corrupt INDIVIDUALS munipulate and trick PEOPLE into using religion as an excuse for violence. As such your MINDLESS and frankly disturbing hatred for apparently all religion is very very misplaced. Perhaps if you actually did some research into what whatever religion you have beef with actually stands for as opposed to what despots and manics who used it as a smokescreen, used it to do.

 

[Chaingang]

Tell me specifically where the bible uses the term "burn the witch" (or any such term) and I'll concede. Until then, i'll have to say that the bible does not say that. Seeing as the mojority of the Christian faith is about forgiveness of sins and converting to the cause, I will have to say that that statement makes no sense at all.

Youre kidding right? Bible and Koran are so violent that it would make a b-grade splatter movie jealous. Bible (and thus Christianity) for example has everything from going to hell for building a tent wrong to selling your daughter to slavery and raping pagans. I suggest reading it once in your life, it's quite humorous and God is acting really childish several times.

Here are few lines about witchcraft:
Thou shalt not suffer a sorceress to live. Exodus 22:18

There shall not be found with thee any one...that useth divination, one that practiseth augury, or an enchanter, or a sorcerer, | or a charmer, or a consulter with a familiar spirit, or a wizard, or a necromancer. Deuteronomy 18:10-11

New testament also has several that claim sorcery and witchcraft being sinful and sending you to hell for it.

Where there's freedom of religion/free choice of religion, there must be freedom of religiously based laws as well.
State and religion are completely different things, one is to govern the worldly aspects of society and humans lives while the other is (or rather, should be) purely spiritual, guiding and, above all, personal.

What people dont understand is that freedom of religion is a FREEDOM, not a right.

Insinuating that you have knowledge that I have or have not read the Bible is saying that you have knowledge about me. Seeing as you have none at all, I'd advise you to stick to what you know. I've read the Bible, and I dont think it was telling me to go and kill atheists and witches just because they are. It was saying dont consort with them. Dont have anything to do with them. I'm not saying the Bible is right in all the things it says, but by saying that the Bible was gory (which we know it was. It had the Romans in it, the most violent people in history, remember?) you're stereotyping Christians, and by association, Muslims -who borrowed ideas from Christianity- as bloodthirsty witch hunters.

 

[Chaingang]

Most of these people seem to be forgetting that this country (well, the one I'm in) was founded on a faith in God. While to some this may have no relevance at all, but the very court system we use is also based on God. You must be sworn in when you give your testimony. Some of you may be atheist (more than likely all of you), but it's not your choice to make. The way you were raised is no different in the way they were raised. It's kinda hard to break away from a religion that is your life, doncha think?

I'm going to assume your country in America, in which case I laugh at you

http://www.idrewthis.org/d/20050406.html

While yes, that is your opinion (and apparently Thomas Jefferson's, to which I'll admit I did not know), but there is no arguing that religion has everything to do with the founding of this country. You cant deny that the idea of a god -whether you believe in Him or not- has apparently planted itself in our country, where it has been for about, say, 200 years? So yes, the idea of a god has been prevalent in this country for quite a while.

 

[Dele]

Insinuating that you have knowledge that I have or have not read the Bible is saying that you have knowledge about me. Seeing as you have none at all, I'd advise you to stick to what you know. I've read the Bible, and I dont think it was telling me to go and kill atheists and witches just because they are. It was saying dont consort with them. Dont have anything to do with them. I'm not saying the Bible is right in all the things it says, but by saying that the Bible was gory (which we know it was. It had the Romans in it, the most violent people in history, remember?) you're stereotyping Christians, and by association, Muslims -who borrowed ideas from Christianity- as bloodthirsty witch hunters.

It was only logical to assume that you have not read it since you talked about forgiveness which is exactly the opposite of what Bible says. You are accusing me of stereotyping Christians and Muslims, yet I have only said facts about their holy books (supposed to be the core of their religion) and not a word of their followers. I also quoted a part of bible that clearly orders to kill all witches (Exodus 22:18), as you asked.
Please dont make claims like that unless you have something to back it with, it will only upset people.

 

[jasoncyrus]

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

naw dog naw
religion was created by the man to kill babies and control people
it couldn't possibly have any other motives.

I love it when morons like jasoncyrus above have such appallingly close minded and STUPID ideas and effectively prove themselves more insular and uninformed than the most conservative christian or muslim.

Oh really, this coming from someone who hasn't even asked for proof. I could simpy go over how they react the same way to the same gorups. how they treated women the same, both chauvanistic, both egotistical, both homophobic, both slaughtered billions of innocents for not being part of their religion.

the list goes on and on and on.

It is not I who is uninformed. It is YOU friend who has failed to see the facts. But why bother trying to reason with closed minded people who refuse to look beyond the surface of something and see the details, the big picture as it were.

Ok first: you realise islam and christianity and Islam are exactly the same religion just rebranded and repackaged right? Both made up by power hungry idiots centuries-millenia ago right?

This is such an incredibly ignorant statement I can't believe you actually want even an internet alias tied to it.

To you i say the same as the previous, If you'd bothered to do ANY research on both of them in a long term time scale and theological evolution, you'll see they both follow the same path. Only difference is one happens in the third world, the other in the developed world.

Feel free to keep being arrogant and ignorant of such things, you're doing a *bang up job* of making yourselves look foolish.

@Azraellod: Looked it up just to be sure and guess what! that describes BOTH religion *perfectly*.

I'm allowed to be hypocritical, I dont worship a religion that butchered billions of people for being different.

So because someone is a christian or muslim and they commit atrocities it is the religions fault and not their own?
thats rich, maybe if a someone listens to music with violent lyrics and kills someone we should put the musician on trial and not the one who comitted the crime. I'll rephrase my previous remark about you being uninformed, your logic is just broken. So let me help your small brain along with this tidbit of information. Morally corrupt INDIVIDUALS munipulate and trick PEOPLE into using religion as an excuse for violence. As such your MINDLESS and frankly disturbing hatred for apparently all religion is very very misplaced. Perhaps if you actually did some research into what whatever religion you have beef with actually stands for as opposed to what despots and manics who used it as a smokescreen, used it to do.

Actually it's mor eof a blatant contempt for christianity and muslims (who ever heard of a bhuddist comiting mass genocide?)

And just to use your own quite frankly stupid linear logic, its clear that pretty much every single major maniac from The salem witch trials to Hitler to todays villians etc were either Christian or muslim. No bhuddists, no hindus no jews etc etc. This shows that both Islam and Christianity are inherinantly evil if they just by some happy coincidence happen to the religion of choice for our worlds atrocity committing maniacs.

As for people commiting crimes because of violent media. Obviously you've been living in a hole for the past decade or so as the politicians have go one a miniature crusade against violent games and to a certain point violent music.

And as I stated in my last few posts, I've done plenty of research on christianity and unlike you i know exactly what it was built on, intolerance and the blood of innocent people.

Feel free to crawl back under your rock.