SEXISM! What's with the standards?

[Mallefunction]

I'm out for money at work.... that's kinda why I go.....

Ha ha! Beat you to it!

Also, I have edited my world view again. Now it is:

EVERYONE IS A HORRIBLE PERSON!

In this vein, I would say this:

Why do women fear sexual harassment? Why do they constantly fear rape? Because it happens, and it happens all the time.

As this:

Why do people fear sexual harassment? Why do they constantly fear rape? Because it happens, and it happens all the time.

Unfortunately, I have no way to fix this problem. Oh dear.

This is because women are much more likely to get raped and when they do get raped, it's by men. Look at the stats. I'm sorry, but it's not sexist to say that women fear getting raped because they are more likely to be raped.

 

[Freechoice]

too true. Reading that was actually depressing, I think I'm gonna need to play some happy music for like, the rest of the day.

Spoiler

snip
Why do women fear sexual harassment? Why do they constantly fear rape? Because it happens, and it happens all the time.

But it happens to everyone, not just women.

I've never been raped before.

Yeah, well call it reparations for women being treated like animals for....thousands of years. I'm sorry worse than animals. I'm pretty sure the family dog was treated better than the wife, in some cases.

That's a stupid fucking excuse. A very small fraction of those women are alive to receive "reparations." Now all it amounts to is sex-based rebalancing of the workforce and entitlements to women. It's the same problem Equal Rights activism made with minorities; white guys that are more qualified get shafted by a less qualified minority/woman and the meritocratic system gets kicked in the teeth.

I'm not insulting you for having said it, but it's still a stupid fucking excuse. Don't screw me in any circumstance just because some dumb bint feels entitled to profit because she pisses sitting down.

 

[Mallefunction]

Yeah, well call it reparations for women being treated like animals for....thousands of years. I'm sorry worse than animals. I'm pretty sure the family dog was treated better than the wife, in some cases.

I see this "argument" frequently and it's total bullshit.

You weren't around thousands of years ago, you didn't suffer that kind of discrimination so you have no right to take "reparations" or whatever name you like to call it.

Also it's horrifying to think you think it is ok for a woman to make a false claim and destroy a man's life because her ancestors hundreds of years ago were discriminated, I find that repulsive.

Even in the past woman had advantages over men, they never had to go and fight for some king who made them die for a piece of land, no they stayed at home and life went all. Do men ask for reparations for being forced to fight for all those years? No.

Oh you poor POOR babies. You know what you just said is exactly like a white person saying to a black person that they have NO RIGHT to be angry over that whole "slavery" thing because they were given a homes by their poor white masters who had worked hard to earn that land in the first place.

The male gaze, it shows SO bad here.

 

[3quency]

Throwing another stone into the void:

What happened there was not cool.
But the alternative scenario last century was that men could more or less do what they liked and not get called out. (generalisation, I know, but let me continue)

There's a bias towards women in this sort of case because it's still kind of a new thing that women even *have* the right to complain.

But we're getting better.

Places raise the awareness of female on male abuse all the time. Women and Men as people are more and more regarded as equal. The majority of people (I believe) accept that the problem is not with the gender, it's with specific people being dicks.

Humans are awesome and at some point that I believe is going to be soon we will actually have gender equality.

Until then, sucks to be your friend and I feel for the guy, but I also understand why the woman could make the accusation and get away with it.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Yeah, well call it reparations for women being treated like animals for....thousands of years. I'm sorry worse than animals. I'm pretty sure the family dog was treated better than the wife, in some cases.

This. Did. Not. Happen.
Your statement betrays an utter ignorance of historical reality. The actual, incredibly varied, circumstances of people throughout history do not line up with the myth, created in the 1960s by sociologists masquerading as historians and anthropologists in order to make themselves look especially glorious, that you are repeating as fact in order to attempt the justification of systematic discrimination. Ancient cultures afforded women rights far in excess of the slavery you imagine (owning property, running businesses, in some cases occupying positions of political and religious authority) and rape and domestic violence have been serious crimes in Western societies for hundreds of years (we're just now fighting to get men the same legal protection). Roman women even had the option of a quite effective morning after pill. The condition you refer to as oppression was actually the result of a very, very important social structure designed to keep women out of harms way. This was important because women are the limiting factor on the growth of any human population and any society that did not do this was therefore destined not to be around much longer. These systems were generally as limiting and repressive for men as they were for women and represented interlocking sets of privileges and disadvantages (remember, most of that socially visible work men had to do was work that was likely to get you killed), not a system of oppression like that which existed, and in many ways still exists, based on socioeconomic class.

We, as a society, like to imagine ourselves better than our forebears and one of the ways we judge the value of a society is the way it treats women (just look at the things we say about anyone we go to war with. Its been a tried and true tactic for playing up the immorality of an enemy for centuries. This kind of propaganda is where the idea of the entirely chimerical medieval laws which supposedly allowed feudal lords to freely rape peasant women came from). As a result, many among us have a distinct tendency to greatly exaggerate the historical mistreatment of women, sometimes by repeating inaccurate data, sometimes by inventing out of whole cloth as you have done (the "family dog" as more than a beast of utility is a relatively recent invention. There were few pets, as we would understand the term, in the ancient world) or by stating the conditions endured by women while omitting those suffered by the men of their class (you know they're selling something when they want you to compare a peasant woman to a king and call it a fair measure of gender discrimination).

 

[Mau95]

While we're on this topic, why is it that any MALE claiming sexual harassment is pretty much told to man-up and quit being a fucking pussy?

Yes, because everyone besides you is some faceless group that is just unfathomably inconsistent. How about the people who tell them to man up etc are sexists and not necessarily people who really care about equality? The people that say that kind of shit about manning up and people being pussies tend to be obnoxious, overly macho, and pretty clearly sexist.

Not if they're going overboars. I'd tell everyone to "man up" if they were overreacting. Which is also what I would have told the woman in the scenario.

OP: Wow, that sucks man. Condolences and stuff. It's sad that this stuff still happens. What country was this?

 

[GraveeKing]

See it's things exactly like this that when I'm called a sexist I can happily say.
Damn-well better than being a feminist - at least I believe in equal rights.

We USED to live in a society where women got no respect, and men were meant to treat them with extra care because they were delicate.
Now we need to treat them with even more care AND respect. If you want respect - EARN it! I don't decide to randomly give out respect - but they will take it personally when I say I don't.

I mean god if you even dare say you don't respect any random female they'll call it sexism - and yet they expect me to meet someone and instantaneously respect them BECAUSE of their gender?
Everyone else works for it - but you seem to need to take even more care of a woman - the fact that (some - not all) like kids or you're automatically being a pervert makes you think that really, some people aren't just too sensitive - but really need to get over it.

Feminists are right on one thing though - women do not have equal rights.
They have many... MANY more.

I'm glad not all women in our society are like this - or really the general population would stop growing in all first-world country's....

 

[Nexxis]

Yeah, well call it reparations for women being treated like animals for....thousands of years. I'm sorry worse than animals. I'm pretty sure the family dog was treated better than the wife, in some cases.

This. Did. Not. Happen.
Your statement betrays an utter ignorance of historical reality. The actual, incredibly varied, circumstances of people throughout history do not line up with the myth, created in the 1960s by sociologists masquerading as historians and anthropologists in order to make themselves look especially glorious, that you are repeating as fact in order to attempt the justification of systematic discrimination. Ancient cultures afforded women rights far in excess of the slavery you imagine (owning property, running businesses, in some cases occupying positions of political and religious authority) and rape and domestic violence have been serious crimes in Western societies for hundreds of years (we're just now fighting to get men the same legal protection). Roman women even had the option of a quite effective morning after pill. The condition you refer to as oppression was actually the result of a very, very important social structure designed to keep women out of harms way. This was important because women are the limiting factor on the growth of any human population and any society that did not do this was therefore destined not to be around much longer. These systems were generally as limiting and repressive for men as they were for women and represented interlocking sets of privileges and disadvantages (remember, most of that socially visible work men had to do was work that was likely to get you killed), not a system of oppression like that which existed, and in many ways still exists, based on socioeconomic class.

We, as a society, like to imagine ourselves better than our forebears and one of the ways we judge the value of a society is the way it treats women (just look at the things we say about anyone we go to war with. Its been a tried and true tactic for playing up the immorality of an enemy for centuries. This kind of propaganda is where the idea of the entirely chimerical medieval laws which supposedly allowed feudal lords to freely rape peasant women came from). As a result, many among us have a distinct tendency to greatly exaggerate the historical mistreatment of women, sometimes by repeating inaccurate data, sometimes by inventing out of whole cloth as you have done (the "family dog" as more than a beast of utility is a relatively recent invention. There were few pets, as we would understand the term, in the ancient world) or by stating the conditions endured by women while omitting those suffered by the men of their class (you know they're selling something when they want you to compare a peasant woman to a king and call it a fair measure of gender discrimination).

Do you have some online sources for this information or some terms I should use in a google search to be able to get to it?

 

[Darius Brogan]

EDIT: Oh yes, just for the record, He didn't 'leave anything out' of his story, and I didn't 'Miss anything' because I was there. Right there, in person. When she went off her rocker and decided she was going to sue. If I hadn't been tthere, I wouldn't have bothered to say anything.

I don't believe you. Without some evidence, I don't believe a decision that large would have been made if that were the only incident and if you gave all the details.

Also I know men who have successfully complained about sexual harassment so you are wrong on that front too.

As I've stated numerous times before: I don't care if you believe me, because I know it's true. I feel no need to lie in real life, so why would the internet be any different?.

And I never said anything about guys never successfully filing suit, did I? No. I pointed out a double standard.

 

[Phasmal]

To the twelve people who quoted me

Yeah, I didn't phrase my arguments entirely well, but I'm glad to see many of you got the gist of it.

I really hate having to sink to this sort of thing.
I never really like talking this sort of thing on here, I think it honestly brings out the worst in me, because it depresses me.

Gamers like to say how inclusive they are, but when I'm forced to defend my gender (and common sense) over and over, it starts feeling like you are only included if you are male or dont mention that you are female.

And as much as I would love to go elsewhere and save myself headache.
What would that prove?
That I dont belong in this community. , I just have to hope that we as a community can mature.

 

[Darius Brogan]

Not if they're going overboars. I'd tell everyone to "man up" if they were overreacting. Which is also what I would have told the woman in the scenario.

OP: Wow, that sucks man. Condolences and stuff. It's sad that this stuff still happens. What country was this?

No worries, it was a number of years ago, and despite everything, he's moved on.

This was in Canada, by the way.

 

[Darius Brogan]

To the twelve people who quoted me

Yeah, I didn't phrase my arguments entirely well, but I'm glad to see many of you got the gist of it.

I really hate having to sink to this sort of thing.
I never really like talking this sort of thing on here, I think it honestly brings out the worst in me, because it depresses me.

Gamers like to say how inclusive they are, but when I'm forced to defend my gender (and common sense) over and over, it starts feeling like you are only included if you are male or dont mention that you are female.

And as much as I would love to go elsewhere and save myself headache.
What would that prove?
That I dont belong in this community. , I just have to hope that we as a community can mature.

What defense of your gender did you have to do? The obligatory 'I'm going to assume he's generalizing based on one experience' that never happened?

I pointed out a double standard that, for all it's weight against women, is somehow MORE weighted against men.

If a guy does anything anybody on the PLANET doesn't think is macho, he gets belittled and his masculinity is pulled into question.

My old boss actually called me a girl for saying 'Ouch' when I sliced my finger open on a jagged strip of sheet-steel. <Situations like that and worse are so common these days that very few people notice or care anymore.

It doesn't matter to me if you're a girl/woman or not, finding fault in an argument that isn't there is simply making yourself a victim, which, by the way, simply perpetuates an already sickeningly common stereotype.

 

[Darius Brogan]

-snip-

You know, as terrible as this stuff is, it really doesn't shock me. I have a friend who, when going through his divorce, was pretty much branded a pedophile by the court (simply because his wife said so, it was all utter lies), lost his job, lost his position on his kids' schools parent teacher board, lost all his friends and a vast quantity of his money. The worse thing was, that the British justice system didn't even invite him to the divorce hearings, they didn't even tell him about them. So he wasn't able to get into court and defend his position. Naturally, she won.

I'm not a fan of feminism. Why? Because all the "feminist" friends I have all say the same thing. "Feminism is about equality".

No.

Equality is about equality.

Feminism was created in the early 20th century as a reaction to the wrongful, extreme cultural and lawful oppression of women. Those women, rightfully stood up for themselves, and won themselves the vote and tons of other things over that century. Nowadays, feminism is a shell of what it used to be, and has actually become the thing it is supposedly against. It's now just an exclusive club for women to rant about men in society and the remaining inequalities. It personifies exclusion.

Me personally? I stand for equality. Equality for women, LGBT's, disabled individuals, etc. I stand for equality in all aspects of life, cultural, lawful, work etc. I speak and act consistent to this belief, I treat all people as equally as my flawed personality allows. Any inconsistencies get learned from and I move on.

Feminism is redundant, it now comes under the wider and more powerful banner of equality, for everyone.

Just give me a minute to get my flame suit on, this is clearly going to rile some people.

If that riles people up, then they've obviously got some form of hatred in them anyways, and they don't matter.

Equality is something everybody should strive for, and if more people did, perhaps the Radical Feminist movement wouldn't have gotten so large so fast.

 

[Phasmal]

To the twelve people who quoted me

Yeah, I didn't phrase my arguments entirely well, but I'm glad to see many of you got the gist of it.

I really hate having to sink to this sort of thing.
I never really like talking this sort of thing on here, I think it honestly brings out the worst in me, because it depresses me.

Gamers like to say how inclusive they are, but when I'm forced to defend my gender (and common sense) over and over, it starts feeling like you are only included if you are male or dont mention that you are female.

And as much as I would love to go elsewhere and save myself headache.
What would that prove?
That I dont belong in this community. , I just have to hope that we as a community can mature.

What defense of your gender did you have to do? The obligatory 'I'm going to assume he's generalizing based on one experience' that never happened?

I pointed out a double standard that, for all it's weight against women, is somehow MORE weighted against men.

If a guy does anything anybody on the PLANET doesn't think is macho, he gets belittled and his masculinity is pulled into question.

My old boss actually called me a girl for saying 'Ouch' when I sliced my finger open on a jagged strip of sheet-steel. <Situations like that and worse are so common these days that very few people notice or care anymore.

It doesn't matter to me if you're a girl/woman or not, finding fault in an argument that isn't there is simply making yourself a victim, which, by the way, simply perpetuates an already sickeningly common stereotype.

To be honest, I was speaking in more general terms, not just about this thread.

I'm not sure where you're going to with the `if a guy does something unmacho` thing. Men and women both have to deal with being punished for disobeying gender stereotypes. Okay, a dude called you a girl.
I've been cornered, called a lesbian and threatened for not acting womanly enough.
If I speak on games, I cant even repeat the shit that gets said.

Sometimes it sucks to be everybody.

I'm not sure which argument `isnt there`? That women are discriminated in this community?
They are.

I dont see myself as a victim of anything, its just something that bugs me, and I can't pretend it isn't there. Again, its not always, just enough times to make my brain explode.