Sexual Fantasy vs. Sexual Morality

[Lavi]

There was a time when the only real and acceptable form of sex would be your typical vanilla sex between a married man and woman that you see (if you're into voyeurism) in any king sized bed across the land

History is written by the winners (Judeo-Christian). Therefore, history has told only the story of vanilla sex being normal throughout history unless you look really hard. I very highly doubt that every culture and everyone has seen vanilla sex as the only acceptable form. I can name a few challenges to this off the top of my head:

Pederasty: Probably spelled wrong, but the practice of older males having sex with adolescent males common to the Greeks and Romans

Jains: Pretty early in their history, they wrote what was normal/not normal for sex. This included only actual medical problems

Hinduism: Dude, one God was born from a lesbian couple. This has been played down due to British colonialism

Medieval Islam: I read some pretty racy poetry and plays that were totally gay, and a lot of these haven't been translated due to a paradigm shift due to colonialism. Such instances of literature are very common depending on the era and religion you choose to look at

Medieval Christiandom: There exists some texts on what was punishable for sex (a list of what the Church didn't want you doing) that included modern things such as dildos ^^

Africa: Basically no pre-colonial history, but there is reason to think that lesbian marriages (dowry exchanges) existed prior to colonialism (because how could they come from Europe when it didn't exist there and how would it be a reaction to Europe?)

Two-Spirit and variations: You will actually have a hard time finding a group of people who do not have a place for transgendered or sexual minorities in their society. They are often considered sacred in some way.

Pornography: When we got the printing press, we printed porn. When we got TV, we put porn on it. When we got the Internet, we put porn on it. Porn has been around since FOREVER and we keep looking for a way to show everyone else.

Unmarried: Brothels. And lots of them. Everywhere. Oh, and harems!

 

[SimuLord]

Every girl I've ever been with has cried out the safeword LONG before I've reached my own theoretical limit (which frankly scares me), so I lost the right to judge ANYONE for their sexual morality.

Sounds like the guys I usually dated. And frankly vanilla sex gets old FAST.

And considering oral sex and anal sex are illegal in VA, I wont even use the laws as my moral guide.

Not anymore. Lawrence v. Texas struck down states' anti-sodomy laws, including those statutes in Virginia.

 

[Rabid Toilet]

And if rape is so natural, why does it not happen all the time with animals? We share common morality traits with many animals, because it is best for the species in most cases.

I can't give you statistics about something like that, but just... Have you ever watched animal documentaries? Read articles concerning animal mating behavior? Owned animals? Anything?

As Verp pointed out, I doubt anyone has any actual statistics as to how many animals are raped per year or whatnot, but the fact that the animal kingdom has rape aplenty is shown in pretty much every animal documentary ever.

I thought it was a pretty well-known fact.

Seems to me that either we don't share common morality traits with animals, or rape being immoral is something that we decided on our own, and is not built into us.

 

[vento 231]

What a man and woman do together doesn't bother me, as long as I don't have to see, hear, smell, or othe senses that would just sound extremely dirty, I am fine. I really don't like knowing what others do though.

 

[The King of Rock and Roll]

I don't think anybody on the Escapist has ever had sex.

 

[Ritter315]

"typical vanilla sex" - I think right here lies the problem. We in modern times tend to look at sex in the same way we would look at food, some things are good, but we cant have it all the time. I think this is plain ridicious. Sex is fine and all, but I honestly think that it should only be done with a few people if any more than one person. Pychologically, sexual relations is essentially giving a piece of yourself to that person. Thats why most NORMAL people would never consider dating a prostitude, porn-star, or stripper, because of basic human emotions of love, and jealously. I happen to think that the recent amount of sexual freedom we give our fellow man is disgusting. Sex for all intents and purposes has lost meaning with our generation (1990s kids I'm talking about) Basically what I'm saying is that If an a society is able to create something beautiful, if no one cares enough to see it, than that something beautiful is ultimately worthless. Sex seems to be in the role of that beautiful something, and to me personally, for a person to share it with someone other than they love is not only stupid, but morally wrong. To your question: YES! WE should be drawning lines of acceptibility because at some point, no matter how far in the future, if we dont than at some point that line is going to cross a point that you dont agree with and it gets harder to draw it the farther it goes. I'm not saying to demand the ideal marriage and sexual relations, I'm just saying that we should be more responsible with sex as a generation and be an example for the next. Because if sex isnt sacred, whats the point of having it, it would just be another part of human nature, in the same category as eating, which I think, is a waste of something so great.

I don't think anybody on the Escapist has ever had sex.

- By the way. This is a hilarous quote and I needed to quote it, because it is worthy of being quoted.

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

What people do behind closed doors is no concern of mine, and it should be of no concern to anyone else.

I agree with this provided it isn't:

A) Rape

B) Sex with children

Have fun behind doors but if you're doing... whatever you do in public I'm calling the cops.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

As long as both parties agree and there's no kids involved, go for it. I mean, I hate missionary.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

I can't give you statistics about something like that, but just... Have you ever watched animal documentaries? Read articles concerning animal mating behavior? Owned animals? Anything?

I have to all of them, we need to prove that it is the most prevailent way of reproduction. A said morality in a society is based upon common ground. Seeing as humans also rape, although they psycopaths or sociopaths and have very few morals in common with us.

Anyway...

It shouldn't be rocket science that natural selection favours the genes that can pass themselves without discrimination from the one who's in the receiving end. There are whole species where rape is the most prevalent form of passing one's genes, or in some cases it would be if the receiving end didn't have precautions. Ducks, for example, have a whole genital warfare going on: the females have developed incredibly complex passageways in which to lose the male duck's penis in case of forced mating and the males have a specialised penis for handling the maze. Mating can go incredibly bad for the females anyway, though, because the males seek to tire them out so they can rape them a bit better and the females can drown while struggling. Bedbugs take the ducks' genital warfare a step further: they don't even use the proper passageways, the males try to stab the female through the abdomen to inject their seed directly and the females have decoy organs to fool them.

Dolphins don't even care whether you're female or even a dolphin -- they'll gang rape anyway you for shits and giggles.

Bottlenosed dolphins, the others seem to enjoy the bisexing.
You should have mentioned diving beetles aswell their whole reproduction is based on a rape/anti-rape society.

Also of course rape is a sure way to get your ofspring further but it also marks you as a target and limits your chances in the future, rapists are at the bottom of the pecking order in prison (child molesters even more so).

 

[Boris Goodenough]

As Verp pointed out, I doubt anyone has any actual statistics as to how many animals are raped per year or whatnot, but the fact that the animal kingdom has rape aplenty is shown in pretty much every animal documentary ever.

I thought it was a pretty well-known fact.

Seems to me that either we don't share common morality traits with animals, or rape being immoral is something that we decided on our own, and is not built into us.

That would be silly of me to ask for. No I am talking about the predominent way of reproduction in most species that have societies, because humans have it aswell.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Also of course rape is a sure way to get your ofspring further but it also marks you as a target and limits your chances in the future, rapists are at the bottom of the pecking order in prison (child molesters even more so).

Yeah, because everyone hates them, they are often the target of prison rapes...wait...

Rape doesn't usually have negative effects (on the rapist, obviously, the estimated 1 in 3 women worldwide to have been raped might disagree), because the conviction rate is in the single digit percentages. People go out of their way to place the blame on the victim, for a variety of reasons. In various parts of the "civilised" world, it was only recently that people recognised that prostitutes could be raped, or that a husband could rape his wife, and those ideas still don't have much public support.

Hell, look at the amount of women and children trafficked across the world as sex slaves.

 

[moretimethansense]

As long as it's between two appropriate people.. THERE WILL BE NO LINE!!!

That line would only make crossing it all the more desirable.

Well said. Then the only way to stay behind that line would be to somehow adopt a way of thinking that scoffs at what is deemed sexually immoral all the time, so I would believe.

There is no "sexual immorality" between two consenting adults within a sexual experience, contrary to the "moral pedestal" position some religions try to be presumptuous with. Once you get past the consensual line of things, then it becomes a concern.

Otherwise, what happens in the bedroom with consent, is no one else's business. End of fucking story (no pun intended, of course).

What's with everyone's obsession with monogamous relationships?
Why only two?
Why can't three men four women and 40 feet of rope have a good time together?

 

[Kelethor]

If they wanna do it, then let em do it.

 

[Boris Goodenough]

Yeah, because everyone hates them, they are often the target of prison rapes...wait...

Rape doesn't usually have negative effects (on the rapist, obviously, the estimated 1 in 3 women worldwide to have been raped might disagree), because the conviction rate is in the single digit percentages. People go out of their way to place the blame on the victim, for a variety of reasons. In various parts of the "civilised" world, it was only recently that people recognised that prostitutes could be raped, or that a husband could rape his wife, and those ideas still don't have much public support.

Hell, look at the amount of women and children trafficked across the world as sex slaves.

Just to clarify, I abhore rapists more than about anything else and think rapists should have their nutsack hit with a sledge hammer.
I agree those parts are sad that we've first implemented those laws now.
However a lot of women accuse men of rape in very high numbers, so it is often hard to see wether the accusations are true or not and that leads to "boy who cried wolf".

 

[Wondermint13]

As long as it's between two appropriate people.. THERE WILL BE NO LINE!!!

That line would only make crossing it all the more desirable.

Well said. Then the only way to stay behind that line would be to somehow adopt a way of thinking that scoffs at what is deemed sexually immoral all the time, so I would believe.

There is no "sexual immorality" between two consenting adults within a sexual experience, contrary to the "moral pedestal" position some religions try to be presumptuous with. Once you get past the consensual line of things, then it becomes a concern.

Otherwise, what happens in the bedroom with consent, is no one else's business. End of fucking story (no pun intended, of course).

What's with everyone's obsession with monogamous relationships?
Why only two?
Why can't three men four women and 40 feet of rope have a good time together?

He makes an excellent point.

 

[steph01a]

So, it's ok to regulate morality then?

Every girl I've ever been with has cried out the safeword LONG before I've reached my own theoretical limit (which frankly scares me), so I lost the right to judge ANYONE for their sexual morality.

Sounds like the guys I usually dated. And frankly vanilla sex gets old FAST.

And considering oral sex and anal sex are illegal in VA, I wont even use the laws as my moral guide.

No one should regulate what goes on in the bedroom. Regulating sex and morality is a puritanical trait from our history. The government(s) should leave it alone.

regarding anal sex, I've heard that people in My State (Mississippi) use anal sex toys more than any other State. It's not illegal here! Oral sex is not illegal here, either. Mississippi seriously frowns on anything done in public, so keep your pants on in public, guys.

I know what you're thinking .. an' I'm not tellin'

 

[Thaluikhain]

However a lot of women accuse men of rape in very high numbers, so it is often hard to see wether the accusations are true or not and that leads to "boy who cried wolf".

There are large amounts of accusations of rape, yes, but this is because there's even larger accounts of occurence of rape.

The idea that most accusations of rape are made up by women who feel like having their entire lives dragged through the mud by defence lawyers and the media for a tiny chance of conviction used to be popular, but with increasing numbers of female police officers who are more likely to actually care about rapes instead of sweeping them under the carpet, this is decreasing.

 

[mindlesspuppet]

What does sexual realignment surgery have to do with anything, might I ask?

Doctor, I'm not very happy with my anatomy, I think my penis has begun to sag. xD

 

[Boris Goodenough]

There are large amounts of accusations of rape, yes, but this is because there's even larger accounts of occurence of rape.

I meant false accusations.

The idea that most accusations of rape are made up by women who feel like having their entire lives dragged through the mud by defence lawyers and the media for a tiny chance of conviction used to be popular, but with increasing numbers of female police officers who are more likely to actually care about rapes instead of sweeping them under the carpet, this is decreasing.

The last part is good.

 

[AndyFromMonday]

The idea that most accusations of rape are made up by women who feel like having their entire lives dragged through the mud by defence lawyers and the media for a tiny chance of conviction used to be popular, but with increasing numbers of female police officers who are more likely to actually care about rapes instead of sweeping them under the carpet, this is decreasing.

[/quote]

Now all we need to do is attempt to remove the idea that men cannot be raped. Since I've yet to find a man or a woman who wouldn't laugh at the idea of a man being raped I'm going to assume we're going to need another gender.

OT: Morality does not exist. Preconcieved notions of what a person should and should not do exist. What a person does with another person is their business alone and no one is in a position to us how to use OUR bodies.