Sexuality in Mass Effect

[RelexCryo]

I don't think gamemakers who want to make a game with ordinary sex are obligated to add my fetishes, nor do I think that game makers are obligated to add gay sex scenes. There is a difference between oppressing a minority and simply not including them. If Mass Effect came out and said that God hates gays and they should burn, then yeah, I would be pissed.

Your comparison of homosexuality to a sexual fetish is...off, to say the least.

Maybe it was cut for time. Or maybe, just maybe, they were exercising their right as the WRITERS to dictate a character trait. You aren't, after all, playing as *insert your name here* You could just as easily argue "why can't I play as gay Link?"

Does the phrase "Role-Playing Game" mean anything to you?

What is the point of Mass Effect if not to play out your characters in a way that reflects your own self. There's a reason why JRPGs get so heavily condemned for dictating your character's every action; RPGs are about making your own choices, not having them made for you.

That depends on how you define fetish. If you define fetish as something that is morally wrong, then the vast majority of things we call fetishes would not be fetishes. If you define fetish as a sexuality that only a small number of people are into, then yeah, homosexuality is a fetish.

Neither of those are the definitions of a fetish:

1. an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.
2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.
3. Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

Having a sexual fixation with women's feet? Fetish. Getting turned on by wearing leather? Fetish. Being sexually disposed towards your own sex? Biology.

"Any non-genital part of a person's body?" A man's butt is non-genital, yet hetero women consistently say that a tight butt turns them on. A person's FACE is a non-genital, yet consistently factors into sexiness. You never hear of people having face fetishes, yet you hear of people having spanking fetishes. I think that definition is absurd, and it simply doesn't support the current usage of the word, as the word "fetish" is commonly applied to actions, in addition to body parts or inanimate objects.

 

[RelexCryo]

Here is the wikipedia defintion of fetish: "Sexual fetishism, or erotic fetishism, is the sexual arousal brought on by any object, situation or body part not conventionally viewed as being sexual in nature."

 

[RyVal]

I don't think gamemakers who want to make a game with ordinary sex are obligated to add my fetishes, nor do I think that game makers are obligated to add gay sex scenes. There is a difference between oppressing a minority and simply not including them. If Mass Effect came out and said that God hates gays and they should burn, then yeah, I would be pissed.

Your comparison of homosexuality to a sexual fetish is...off, to say the least.

Maybe it was cut for time. Or maybe, just maybe, they were exercising their right as the WRITERS to dictate a character trait. You aren't, after all, playing as *insert your name here* You could just as easily argue "why can't I play as gay Link?"

Does the phrase "Role-Playing Game" mean anything to you?

What is the point of Mass Effect if not to play out your characters in a way that reflects your own self. There's a reason why JRPGs get so heavily condemned for dictating your character's every action; RPGs are about making your own choices, not having them made for you.

That depends on how you define fetish. If you define fetish as something that is morally wrong, then the vast majority of things we call fetishes would not be fetishes. If you define fetish as a sexuality that only a small number of people are into, then yeah, homosexuality is a fetish.

Neither of those are the definitions of a fetish:

1. an object regarded with awe as being the embodiment or habitation of a potent spirit or as having magical potency.
2. any object, idea, etc., eliciting unquestioning reverence, respect, or devotion: to make a fetish of high grades.
3. Psychology. any object or nongenital part of the body that causes a habitual erotic response or fixation.

Having a sexual fixation with women's feet? Fetish. Getting turned on by wearing leather? Fetish. Being sexually disposed towards your own sex? Biology.

"Any non-genital part of a person's body?" A man's butt is non-genital, yet hetero women consistently say that a tight butt turns them on. A person's FACE is a non-genital, yet consistently factors into sexiness. You never hear of people having face fetishes, yet you hear of people having spanking fetishes. I think that definition is absurd, and it simply doesn't support the current usage of the word, as the word "fetish" is commonly applied to actions, in addition to body parts or inanimate objects.

That definition is the actual dictionary definition.

 

[Jandau]

Wow, a lot of hate and vitriol going on around here. Funny how people don't bash movies or books for having romantic relationships in them, but I guess that's the price a medium has to pay for having a ton of its audience set in (pre)teens and worried about cooties...

I will add this to the discussion: I found it interesting that ME2 adressed the potential biological ramifications of inter-species relationships with characters such as Tali and Garrus. Other characters also touch on the issue - Kelly Chambers comments about it, Mordin provides medical advice, several encounters in the game touch on the issue (Quarian and Turian talkin about the Quarian's Human boyfriend; the multi-species bachelor party, etc.).

However, in the end, if you're gossed out about it, there are quite valid human romance options, or no romance at all. Bioware gave you options, you decide if you want to take them...

 

[Fappy]

Liara is not a female!

 

[Scizophrenic Llama]

I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I don't have the time to comb through 8 pages of material to see, but Jade Empire allowed for a male on male scene, so we can't say that Bioware is just doing this to hate on them. Why they haven't allowed for this, I don't know.

 

[Riobux]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

 

[Fappy]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

They appear female to humans. They could very well appear male to Batarians for all we know.

 

[Riobux]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

They appear female to humans. They could very well appear male to Batarians for all we know.

Oh yes. However, since it's a gender neutral character, it's technically not lesbian sex if you have a female character. It's more...Well...Just sex. However, if you took a step back and just observed what's happening from the point of view of someone just entering the room with no consideration of story or background (or the point of view of FOX), it's a woman who is bisexual. Although I'd laugh if your point was brought up when FOX news was whining about the sex scene.

 

[afaceforradio]

I do agree that it doesn't make much sense (after all if they're having one, why not another, right?) and IMO there'd be nowt wrong at all with having a homosexual character in there.

However, all homophobic comments aside - does it matter? I can't imagine many gay men boycotting the game simply because they can't get their end away with Jacob or something.

The way I look at it, Mass Effect is potentially a 100 hours + behemoth of gameplay, story and action... so why should there be so much fuss over what, 30 seconds of fully clothed romping on the floor?

And in case anyone wants to jump on me for being a homophobe, I'm not - at all - I just think that it's almost a teeny bit hypocritical to be complaining that there's no gay males in the game, as if man-shepard being straight is a problem somehow.

 

[Fappy]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

They appear female to humans. They could very well appear male to Batarians for all we know.

Oh yes. However, since it's a gender neutral character, it's technically not lesbian sex if you have a female character. It's more...Well...Just sex. However, if you took a step back and just observed what's happening from the point of view of someone just entering the room with no consideration of story or background (or the point of view of FOX), it's a woman who is bisexual. Although I'd laugh if your point was brought up when FOX news was whining about the sex scene.

I wish I could talk about having sex with Asari and Batarians on national television...

 

[klakkat]

Personally, I felt the sexuality was extraneous anyway. In Mass Effect, it had a militaristic secret agent sort of feel, and it just felt forced trying to get close enough to my companions for the sex scene, so I never did. It always had a "fraternizing with the troops" feel whenever something went past casual conversation, and it felt awkward. Besides, the two characters I liked the most were the Turian and Wrex; I certainly never had even the slightest interest in attempting to sex them up.

 

[Riobux]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

They appear female to humans. They could very well appear male to Batarians for all we know.

Oh yes. However, since it's a gender neutral character, it's technically not lesbian sex if you have a female character. It's more...Well...Just sex. However, if you took a step back and just observed what's happening from the point of view of someone just entering the room with no consideration of story or background (or the point of view of FOX), it's a woman who is bisexual. Although I'd laugh if your point was brought up when FOX news was whining about the sex scene.

I wish I could talk about having sex with Asari and Batarians on national television...

Especially on the BBC, Channel 4 or FOX news. They'd all be incredible in their own little ways.

 

[RyVal]

I do agree that it doesn't make much sense (after all if they're having one, why not another, right?) and IMO there'd be nowt wrong at all with having a homosexual character in there.

However, all homophobic comments aside - does it matter? I can't imagine many gay men boycotting the game simply because they can't get their end away with Jacob or something.

The way I look at it, Mass Effect is potentially a 100 hours + behemoth of gameplay, story and action... so why should there be so much fuss over what, 30 seconds of fully clothed romping on the floor?

The whole matter of having inter-character relationships does not matter at all, yet it is still included. Mass Effect is as much about character building as it is about sci-fi. If people just wanted to blow shit up, they'd be playing Gears of War or Halo. ME is touted as being mature and adult, so it would make sense that they would address something like this - especially when they have done so in the past, and especially when this is a game which is supposed to give absolute freedom to the player.

Also, you do not seem able to make the distinction between homosexual characters and gay porn. If I wanted to see hot man-love, I have access to the Internet, which contains a wide array of non-CGI, non-alien examples. This is about hypocrisy in a game which addresses lesbian relationships but does not do the same to gay ones, simply because the former is considered "hawt". This is also about the general dearth of homosexual characters in general, even in games like Mass Effect which aim to be taken as serious dramas.

And in case anyone wants to jump on me for being a homophobe, I'm not - at all - I just think that it's almost a teeny bit hypocritical to be complaining that there's no gay males in the game, as if man-shepard being straight is a problem somehow.

I doubt you are homophobic, but if every game you played featured only homosexual characters, would you not want at least one RPG which reflected your own sexuality?

 

[JaredXE]

WOAH! This is an inappropriate ban:

Let this be a lesson; when you start referring to homosexuals as 'your kind' and claiming they have 'malformed brains' you're no longer welcome on these forums - Logan

Is what ExpirituExterminatus said inaccurate? He even posted the link showing the study stating that homosexual brains are wired differently than others of their gender. As if we needed a study showing that a gay man finds men attractive like a straight female does.

Again, it comes down to you must tolerate my particular group or else I find you intolerant.

 

[Fappy]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

They appear female to humans. They could very well appear male to Batarians for all we know.

Oh yes. However, since it's a gender neutral character, it's technically not lesbian sex if you have a female character. It's more...Well...Just sex. However, if you took a step back and just observed what's happening from the point of view of someone just entering the room with no consideration of story or background (or the point of view of FOX), it's a woman who is bisexual. Although I'd laugh if your point was brought up when FOX news was whining about the sex scene.

I wish I could talk about having sex with Asari and Batarians on national television...

Especially on the BBC, Channel 4 or FOX news. They'd all be incredible in their own little ways.

"You would actually have relations with an alien?"
"Bang an Asari? Hell yeah... not one of those Ardak-Yeshi's(sp?) though."
"What is... do we even want to ask?"
"They fire your brain when they fuck you."

 

[Mother Yeti]

WOAH! This is an inappropriate ban:

Let this be a lesson; when you start referring to homosexuals as 'your kind' and claiming they have 'malformed brains' you're no longer welcome on these forums - Logan

Is what ExpirituExterminatus said inaccurate? He even posted the link showing the study stating that homosexual brains are wired differently than others of their gender. As if we needed a study showing that a gay man finds men attractive like a straight female does.

Again, it comes down to you must tolerate my particular group or else I find you intolerant.

He straight up used the term "malformed" to refer to homosexuals, compared homosexuality to pedophilia, and was "you people"-ing it up towards the end. And ... yeah, if you don't tolerate homosexuals, I'm going to find you intolerant. I don't see why that's so controversial.

"You would actually have relations with an alien?"
"Bang an Asari? Hell yeah... not one of those Ardak-Yeshi's(sp?) though."
"What is... do we even want to ask?"
"They fire your brain when they fuck you."

This would be hilarious, but it presupposes that the nutjobs actually play the games before they start hurling accusations

 

[Riobux]

Liara is not a female!

Eh, people deem her a female due to a generally female body. It's like saying "this women isn't a women because..." despite being born the same shape and having everything a women has physically.

They appear female to humans. They could very well appear male to Batarians for all we know.

Oh yes. However, since it's a gender neutral character, it's technically not lesbian sex if you have a female character. It's more...Well...Just sex. However, if you took a step back and just observed what's happening from the point of view of someone just entering the room with no consideration of story or background (or the point of view of FOX), it's a woman who is bisexual. Although I'd laugh if your point was brought up when FOX news was whining about the sex scene.

I wish I could talk about having sex with Asari and Batarians on national television...

Especially on the BBC, Channel 4 or FOX news. They'd all be incredible in their own little ways.

"You would actually have relations with an alien?"
"Bang an Asari? Hell yeah... not one of those Ardak-Yeshi's(sp?) though."
"What is... do we even want to ask?"
"They fire your brain when they fuck you."

The worst part about it is FOX news would take it at face value and start the cry of "oh, it's outrageous! Think of the ethical and moral boundaries being broken!". Channel 4 would do some research, but say it in such a formal way it'd be funny as hell to watch. BBC would, on the other hand, probably do two interviews. One for (featuring your nice little quote) and one against. It would then de-evolve into a subject about racism after someone mentions that aliens are a type of race.

WOAH! This is an inappropriate ban:

Let this be a lesson; when you start referring to homosexuals as 'your kind' and claiming they have 'malformed brains' you're no longer welcome on these forums - Logan

Is what ExpirituExterminatus said inaccurate? He even posted the link showing the study stating that homosexual brains are wired differently than others of their gender. As if we needed a study showing that a gay man finds men attractive like a straight female does.

Again, it comes down to you must tolerate my particular group or else I find you intolerant.

I didn't see the link personally, but I'd say there's a difference between malformed and alternatively wired. Malformed is a loaded term, filled with the concept of a right way and a wrong way. Alternatively wired, however, is more neutrality. Unless I'm wrong however?

 

[bobknowsall]

WOAH! This is an inappropriate ban:

Let this be a lesson; when you start referring to homosexuals as 'your kind' and claiming they have 'malformed brains' you're no longer welcome on these forums - Logan

Is what ExpirituExterminatus said inaccurate? He even posted the link showing the study stating that homosexual brains are wired differently than others of their gender. As if we needed a study showing that a gay man finds men attractive like a straight female does.

Again, it comes down to you must tolerate my particular group or else I find you intolerant.

What he said was not necessarily inaccurate, but it was offensive and insulting. Saying that gays have "malformed brains" is a simply despicable comment. To put it in perspective, imagine that sort of comment being applied to any racial minority.

He also insulted several other users, and generally made an ass of himself. The mods made the right choice.

OT: I heard there was a bi male Cerberus operative, but maybe I was wrong.

I don't particularly mind that there's no male-male romance option in ME2, and I don't think we can chalk this one down to homophobia. Perhaps they just weren't happy with the subplot, so they cut it.