Shadow of the Colossus...meh

[Thick]

You are probably spending too much time with space marines dude. xD

Ha, quite. Some people need their hands held throughout any narrative, and have plot points pointed out to them. Those people tend to like Michael Bay movies.

It's not that there isn't a story in SotC, it's that the game gives you an exposé, a frame for your fantasy to fill in. It's supposed to evoke and suggest rather than flat out TELL - sort of a woman in a sexy dress as opposed to full frontal nudity. If you have a vivid imagination, your mind will make up any number of explanations for the barren landscapes, the magnificent ruins, and the origins of the colossi. If you don't, well, it'll be an empty story in an empty world.

People say about Heinrich von Kleist's novellas that he can tell more in one dash between two sentences than others can in an entire novel. Same principle applies here.

Look, my imagination works just fine. The first time I booted up the game I immediately said, "These two were lovers, she was killed by some establishment, and he is willing to do anything for a chance to bring her back, including flouting that establishment through thievery and trespassing, making a deal with the devil, and tackling challenges way bigger than he should reasonably face. Unfortunately, deals with the devil never work out just the way you hope."

What disappointed me was that for 99% of the game, there's absolutely no emoting going on. It's comparable to what would happen if I was fulfilling that story I made up but doing it poorly.

Pictures of women in sexy clothing being better than full nudity has a lot more to do with illiciting a carnal response than an emotional one. I can look at a picture of a woman in sexy clothes and reasonably expect to find her sexy, but I'm not out to invest any real time or emotion into that picture. You have to be able to invest time and emotion into any story, even ones that leave more than most to the imagination, or they simply don't work.

 

[Upbeat Zombie]

I never finished the game.=/
Fighting the Colossi was fun, but trying to find them was so boring that I just didn't care to finish.

 

[Zeromaeus]

Part of the reason a lot of people like SotC is for its minimal story. No, it's not going to win any awards for its amazing plot twists. But, it's different from any other game out there, and depending on the kind of person you are, it may be worth enjoying simply because there's nothing else like it.

Did you finish the game?

The twist at the end was fucking brilliant.

Personally, I can't wait for The Last Guardian. Even though you just know that griffin will die. It will be sad. People will cry. The game will be beautiful. These are things that we already know.

FUCK, use the spoiler box next time! Can't believe you just did that.

I'm pretty sure it's just him assuming. He doesn't know for sure. I don't even think the game is out in Japan yet. It might be, I don't know about international release dates but I don't think so.

Obvious sarcasm was Obvious dude...

OT: I loved the game. The controls were a tad bit annoying but not game breaking. Colossi 9, The Sand Dragon was amazing.

The "twist" was obvious as all fuck. YOU MEAN THE BIG SHADOWY MYSTERIOUS GUY WHO ASKED ME TO SLAY SOME INNOCENT CREATURES WAS EVIL ALL ALONG? COLOUR ME SURPRISED!

It may come as a surprise if you're expecting the conventional quest story-line.

Everyone I know who played it would have been more surprised if do...domorumumumumumu whatever the fuck his name was, had turned out to be good. Even if you're expecting the conventional quest story, you should know that darkness and shadows are bad and dangerous, especially that whole tentacle rape thing that happens when you kill the colossi.

Were you expecting to

Spoiler: this is a spoiler

become a colossi?

Did you expect that? Did you expect to feel remorse for killing the bosses when you started? They didn't hide the mal-effects of killing the colossi. Not one bit. what they did hide was who Wander was and his intentions.

Spoiler

He was a thief after all

I dunno. I guess I pulled more from the experience than you did. I just liked the game through and through and was always one to over-analyze everything.

You didn't become a colossus, dormofuck posessed you or something. Either way the big black thing was him, using Wander as a medium or some shit. But the way I see it is that over-analyzing anything is worse then not analyzing it at all. But all I was expecting was "Mysterious shadowy fuck will betray me somehow. Probably has to do with the tentacle rape." And boy howdy was I right.

So you don't define that large, black, shadowy mass you control at the end a colossi? Sure its not like the rest and yes its not-Dormommu possessing Wander, but its still a colossal creature of destruction. Also, not-Dormammu never betrays you. He said it would take a sacrifice (or something). He was very up front about his evil ways.

Not by the game's definition of a colossus, no I don't. The game's creator doesn't even consider it a colossus. It's just a big shadow beast, not a colossus. It's dormama at full strength I suppose.

Ah, well. Pot-a-to, to-mah-to, it hardly matters.

Much like SotC. I'd rather play SotN, a game with a similar acronym but a much more interesting gameplay and somehow worse voice acting.

-checks windows-
You are stalking me. I know it. How else would you know what I am playing between typing forum entries!?
-gets shotgun and crucifix-
Bring it!

The cross is a terrible subweapon. You wouldn't be able to do any good with that.

I've got an axe on order and I'm all out of holy water. You expect me to use a dagger or Bible? Feh!

No bibuti? Your loss then! Also, I <3 all the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure references in the MetroidVania games. Whoever makes them fucking loves that series.

Sacred ash is (useless) in short supply where I'm from.

Just mix some salt with some ash, it'll get rid of all your demons (and slugs). It's my second favorite subweapon, holywater being my favorite. I killed the doppleganger with the bibuti, so fuckyeah! Then again I'm also the type of person who used the Fist of Tulkas for a long time despite having a small mountain of game breaking weapons just because of the whole "ORA ORA ORA" reference. It was cooler in the GBA game where the character even had a little soundbyte to accompany the attack though.

Never like the bibuti. It seemed a poor man's holy water.
I'm not incredibly familiar with Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, but that is one of the references, yes? The "ora ora ora" thing?

That's pretty much what it is. I think it has more stopping power and a better rate of fire or something. I don't remember, but it's decent to have if you don't have holy water on hand.
But yeah "Ora ora ora!" is what one of the coolest protagonists ever (Jotaro) shouts when he's punching something into oblivion. The exact referential move in SotN is one of the two specials with the fist of tulkas where he unleashes a flurry of punches, which is the same thing said character does. In one of the GBA games (I think it's the one where you play as Juste but I'm not certain) you can do the same move but with a soundbyte of him saying "Ora ora ora!". Another reference in SotN is the Stone Mask accessory.

That move always made me think of a certain episode of Fist of the North Star...

Possibly. But I'm going with Jojo simply because the mask is in there and later games continued the trend of having a couple of references to it.

Is Jojo's Bizarre Adventure better as an anime or manga? I feel I must investigate.

 

[Zeromaeus]

Part of the reason a lot of people like SotC is for its minimal story. No, it's not going to win any awards for its amazing plot twists. But, it's different from any other game out there, and depending on the kind of person you are, it may be worth enjoying simply because there's nothing else like it.

Did you finish the game?

The twist at the end was fucking brilliant.

Personally, I can't wait for The Last Guardian. Even though you just know that griffin will die. It will be sad. People will cry. The game will be beautiful. These are things that we already know.

FUCK, use the spoiler box next time! Can't believe you just did that.

I'm pretty sure it's just him assuming. He doesn't know for sure. I don't even think the game is out in Japan yet. It might be, I don't know about international release dates but I don't think so.

Obvious sarcasm was Obvious dude...

OT: I loved the game. The controls were a tad bit annoying but not game breaking. Colossi 9, The Sand Dragon was amazing.

The "twist" was obvious as all fuck. YOU MEAN THE BIG SHADOWY MYSTERIOUS GUY WHO ASKED ME TO SLAY SOME INNOCENT CREATURES WAS EVIL ALL ALONG? COLOUR ME SURPRISED!

It may come as a surprise if you're expecting the conventional quest story-line.

Everyone I know who played it would have been more surprised if do...domorumumumumumu whatever the fuck his name was, had turned out to be good. Even if you're expecting the conventional quest story, you should know that darkness and shadows are bad and dangerous, especially that whole tentacle rape thing that happens when you kill the colossi.

Were you expecting to

Spoiler: this is a spoiler

become a colossi?

Did you expect that? Did you expect to feel remorse for killing the bosses when you started? They didn't hide the mal-effects of killing the colossi. Not one bit. what they did hide was who Wander was and his intentions.

Spoiler

He was a thief after all

I dunno. I guess I pulled more from the experience than you did. I just liked the game through and through and was always one to over-analyze everything.

You didn't become a colossus, dormofuck posessed you or something. Either way the big black thing was him, using Wander as a medium or some shit. But the way I see it is that over-analyzing anything is worse then not analyzing it at all. But all I was expecting was "Mysterious shadowy fuck will betray me somehow. Probably has to do with the tentacle rape." And boy howdy was I right.

So you don't define that large, black, shadowy mass you control at the end a colossi? Sure its not like the rest and yes its not-Dormommu possessing Wander, but its still a colossal creature of destruction. Also, not-Dormammu never betrays you. He said it would take a sacrifice (or something). He was very up front about his evil ways.

Not by the game's definition of a colossus, no I don't. The game's creator doesn't even consider it a colossus. It's just a big shadow beast, not a colossus. It's dormama at full strength I suppose.

Ah, well. Pot-a-to, to-mah-to, it hardly matters.

Much like SotC. I'd rather play SotN, a game with a similar acronym but a much more interesting gameplay and somehow worse voice acting.

-checks windows-
You are stalking me. I know it. How else would you know what I am playing between typing forum entries!?
-gets shotgun and crucifix-
Bring it!

The cross is a terrible subweapon. You wouldn't be able to do any good with that.

I've got an axe on order and I'm all out of holy water. You expect me to use a dagger or Bible? Feh!

No bibuti? Your loss then! Also, I <3 all the Jojo's Bizarre Adventure references in the MetroidVania games. Whoever makes them fucking loves that series.

Sacred ash is (useless) in short supply where I'm from.

Just mix some salt with some ash, it'll get rid of all your demons (and slugs). It's my second favorite subweapon, holywater being my favorite. I killed the doppleganger with the bibuti, so fuckyeah! Then again I'm also the type of person who used the Fist of Tulkas for a long time despite having a small mountain of game breaking weapons just because of the whole "ORA ORA ORA" reference. It was cooler in the GBA game where the character even had a little soundbyte to accompany the attack though.

Never like the bibuti. It seemed a poor man's holy water.
I'm not incredibly familiar with Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, but that is one of the references, yes? The "ora ora ora" thing?

That's pretty much what it is. I think it has more stopping power and a better rate of fire or something. I don't remember, but it's decent to have if you don't have holy water on hand.
But yeah "Ora ora ora!" is what one of the coolest protagonists ever (Jotaro) shouts when he's punching something into oblivion. The exact referential move in SotN is one of the two specials with the fist of tulkas where he unleashes a flurry of punches, which is the same thing said character does. In one of the GBA games (I think it's the one where you play as Juste but I'm not certain) you can do the same move but with a soundbyte of him saying "Ora ora ora!". Another reference in SotN is the Stone Mask accessory.

That move always made me think of a certain episode of Fist of the North Star...

Possibly. But I'm going with Jojo simply because the mask is in there and later games continued the trend of having a couple of references to it.

Is Jojo's Bizarre Adventure better as an anime or manga? I feel I must investigate.

Not sure. I haven't seen the anime but I can vouch that the manga is awesome, but if you're going to read it online you might want to beware of some low quality pages and the occasional terribly translated page or chapter but in my experience it's usually pretty good qualitywise and the story, characters and art are great in my opinion.

Awesome. I'll just get some sleep and start in on these ... 594 chapters...
Weeeeeeee!!!

EDIT: Hey look, a stone mask!

 

[MatsVS]

You are probably spending too much time with space marines dude. xD

Ha, quite. Some people need their hands held throughout any narrative, and have plot points pointed out to them. Those people tend to like Michael Bay movies.

It's not that there isn't a story in SotC, it's that the game gives you an exposé, a frame for your fantasy to fill in. It's supposed to evoke and suggest rather than flat out TELL - sort of a woman in a sexy dress as opposed to full frontal nudity. If you have a vivid imagination, your mind will make up any number of explanations for the barren landscapes, the magnificent ruins, and the origins of the colossi. If you don't, well, it'll be an empty story in an empty world.

People say about Heinrich von Kleist's novellas that he can tell more in one dash between two sentences than others can in an entire novel. Same principle applies here.

Yes, excellent reply.

Also, I grow tired of people always construing that male characters in Japanese games that lack obvious physical traits (broad shoulders, chiselled jaw, bulging muscles) we have come to expect from their american counterparts "look like girls." It's a slender boy. That is how they look. This malicious undermining of their sexuality seems to me to be an extension of the collective american male insecurity stemming from them being the fattest nation on Earth. Macho-males = great eaters of cast quantities of meat. It's pathetic and it needs to stop.

Finally, inferring that the lack of pretty shiny things on the world map for people to gawk at while travelling from one location to the other is in any way a shortcoming of the game is a faulty argument. This was a conscious design decision, not laziness. If the lack of baubles kept you from "emotionally connecting" with the game, the fault lies with you, not the game.

 

[Giantcain]

Personally, I can't wait for The Last Guardian. Even though you just know that griffin will die. It will be sad. People will cry. The game will be beautiful. These are things that we already know.

FUCK, use the spoiler box next time! Can't believe you just did that.

Sorry to hear that you didn't enjoy the game though. When I played it I absolutely loved it. Graphics were amazing for their time and still look good today, soundtrack was epic, I loved how the world gave you this massive feeling of being alone whereas you didn't like it and I loved trying to figure out the way to beat each Colossi and climbing up them.

I will agree that the controls were a bit annoying at times, but that's a very minor complaint about what was otherwise an awesome game.

its not spoiler boxed as no one knows if its true most people think giffin is to cute to survive to the end of team ICO game.

If you continued to read the thread you would know that I was only kidding around when I said that.

oh sorry.

 

[MatsVS]

Actually what keeps people from "emotionally connecting" with the game is the near non-existent characterization and story. conscious artsy design or not. It's terrible to sacrifice playability for art if you're making a fucking game. It's just plain boring to be riding around a mostly flat, empty, uninteresting land on a horse that controls horribly.

Actually, perfect playability is not a perquisite for a great game. Not every game needs characters that handle flawlessly with zero response time. If anything, a control set that sacrifices response for realistic motion can enhance immersion.

The land = not empty, if you know where to look. The majestic scenery, the rent earth, fallen ruins ravaged by entropy. Had the sun been but less bright (and red), it could have been like a scene from a Jack Vance story. So you found it boring? I'm sorry, but that still not prove any inherent flaw within the game. Some people find Wagner's operas to be boring, as well as Sartre, believe it or not!

Lastly, the hostility is purely conceived, I assure you. Nothing anyone says on the internet, ever, could ever rile me to the point of aggression. Condescension? Possibly. But not aggression.

 

[Whitethunder]

I am the person who pays attention to every aspect of a game, and for that reason Failure of Collosus was a waste of money for me. Someone said something about it being a work of art and for a PS2 I can most certainly agree with that. However, it may be a work of art but playing it turns into a peice of crap. All you do is ride around on your horse looking for giants nothing in between to fight and I dont' even remember there beign a story to it. Looks great, fights are pretty cool but that's it...anyone who is thinking of getting this game go out and rent it first.

 

[_Cake_]

Yeah I thought it was overrated but I didn't even like Ico. Just saying it's art is making an excuse for it not being fun.

 

[stiborge]

This makes me furious. The point of the game is to leave you wondering. To make you fill in
the gaps yourself. It is a hard premise to understand with great games nowadays delivering any
info that they might have missed or forgotten. View Shadow Of The Colosuss not so much as a game, more as a interactive piece of art that shows a world of mystery. There is no lack of story, merely a lack of respect. Not to sound snippy, but who do we think we are when we demand explanations from things that obviously have so few?

Sorry for blowing any minds.

What?

The fact that there are gaps to be filled in is pretty much the definition of a lack of story. There seems, however, to be a disagreement going around as to whether or not that's a bad thing. I like to think that I would have been okay with a lack of explanation about the setting or the nature of the colossi or Dormin, but I'd like to give slightly more of a damn about Wander and Mono (pretty sure that's the name of the dead girl).

And while I often say that there is no accounting for tastes, somehow saying that seems more appropriate when talking about tastes in women or tastes in soda, and just sounds more pretentious when addressing works of art.

Though I suppose that's just another opinion. =)

That's interesting because I actually did find myself caring about Wander quite a bit despite his lack of dialogue, i'm not sure why. In fact he's one of my favorite main characters, although I really have no idea why he left such an impression on me.

EDIT: Also, the people that say it was arty as an excuse for not being fun. I felt it was fun. The boss battles all had a decidedly epic feel to them that immersed me greatly.

 

[Audio]

It's one of those games where you need to use your imagination while playing.
It's easy to look at the screen and say 'wow that guy is big'. To get more out of it, you have to immerse yourself some more. Picture yourself trying to fight something so impossible; then actually finding a way to take it down.

As previously mentioned: not everyone likes these sort of games. It got high marks on reviews for being original. Which personally, i think deserves the marks in itself.

 

[Skops]

Personally, I played SotC on a projection screen spanning across 80 inches with the surround sound three quarters to blaring... When you LITERALLY are looking up at Colossi #3 and feel the subwoofer shake the very floor at your feet with his every booming step.. this shit was serious.

 

[nuba km]

When I got this game I knew I was going to love it because I like big bosses in games one's that are almost like a level in them self. I was first disappointed when I saw 11 but hey it, 14 and the last one (can't remember if there where 16 or 18) where the only aggressive one's all the others don't attack till you go close to them or attack them hey number 2 only tries to shake you off. There is one which you beat by tripping it. The colossal that mate me feel sad when I killed it was the flying snake I actually cried a single tear. Every other colossal mate me feel like a master knight I didn't realise then they weren't aggressive. The only colossal that actually seems evil is the last one (I also cried a single tear when the horse died even though the crappy controls) but even though it seems evil it looks tortured and it's trapped. Is it just me or those it seem odd the only evil colossus is the one that looks like a human and it's trap in the same place never advancing.

 

[ohellynot]

I'm pointing the irony of you both you and the guy your rebuking saying pretty much the same thing.

Okay, what?

Saying "don't be a dick, he can express his opinion, stop posting low content useless responses" is the same as saying "Your opinion is dumb"?

Righto mate. Whatever floats your boat.

As opposed to you who chapions e-justice and defends the weak. Seriously neither of you have content to your post.
OT: I loved the game personally but I admit it is one of the moe arty subjective games that are out there. The reason you don't hear much against it is probably due to it having a niece market who reaserched it before buying.