Should muslim women remove their veil in stores?

[Danny Ocean]

If I can't wear my hoodie, they can't wear their veils.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Like I've said already...why not just keep it in your home/community? Is it that hard? There isn't some deeper meaning within all this shit. Its just people being stubborn. Religion has caused more problems in this world then any other aspect of society for stupid shit like this. My God could beat up your God! Get over it. I can't stand religious fanatics and I can't stand anti-religious fanatics as well.

Its a tough thing to determine how "far" someone can take their religion, but honestly in a world like today...take off the fucking veil please, its not because we don't like your religion, its because its a security issue.

Thats what I have to say.

 

[000Ronald]

Are you guys like, purposefully missing the point?

God supposedly made a design that can die before having the choice to believe in him or not.

That does not sit well with a God that apparently wants free willed believers.

Simple?

I don't want to world to change via magical *finger click*. I believe humans have the ability to overcome, as we have done for so long. I am not making the 'why do good things happen to bad people' speech. I'm just wondering why god allows 6 month old babies to die randomly seeing as they are incapable to belief at that point. Where does that serve his plan?

Its like failing someone before they've sat the exam. Unless of course they get an auto pass and are just simply used as a tool to fuck with people.

It says in The Bibie that you don't go to hell for not beliving in God, but for committing a sin. If you're taken before you have a choice to belive, then yes, I'd like to think you get a free pass.

Also, in making something that dies, God made something that can and sometimes will die before it's due time. Murphy's law, remember?

EDIT

Like I've said already...why not just keep it in your home/community? Is it that hard? There isn't some deeper meaning within all this shit. Its just people being stubborn. Religion has caused more problems in this world then any other aspect of society for stupid shit like this. My God could beat up your God! Get over it. I can't stand religious fanatics and I can't stand anti-religious fanatics as well.

Its a tough thing to determine how "far" someone can take their religion, but honestly in a world like today...take off the fucking veil please, its not because we don't like your religion, its because its a security issue.

Thats what I have to say.

It's not, though. It's a case of people being paranoid, and that never leads to anything good.

Or I may be overly-optimistic. It's one of the two.

Apologies Abound

 

[Anton P. Nym]

This is a REASONABLE request because do you understand that if they banned everything but Muslim masks then the masks would be EXPLOITED by criminals and then there would be even more religious racism to develop from it. There are some people who get all shifty in there plane seats when sitting across a guy in a Turbin, the last thing we need is a bunch of shopping malls to get pillaged by guys in Religious Masks.

On the same grounds, store keepers could deny entry to all those carrying firearms, as they greatly increase the hazards for everyone in the store and could be abused by criminals.

Those who object on 2nd Amendment grounds should also reflect on the 1st Amendment implications of denying entry to burka wearers.

-- Steve

 

[teh_gunslinger]

In not rascist, i just think its stupid as hell.

Sorry, you are. If you say a religion is stupid as hell (or any part of it) you are an intolerant racist.

No he's not. He may anti religious or a xenophobic jerk (I have no reason to think so), but not a racist.

Personally I find Islam just as stupid as all other religions. You name a religion and I'll call it stupid, regardless of the "race" of the practitioners. Religion is a mental illness (of sorts), not something to with anything else.

Edit: that came across in a bad way. Sorry. I just have a particular axe to grind with religions these days, as I realised that kids can't be excused from prayer in Danish schools if the head master says no.
But even if I was to harsh I stand by my point: criticism of religion is not racism.

 

[J-Man]

I find bherkas (is that how its spelt?) an infringement on human liberties, and certainly one of the most sexist things around today. Women are forced by law to wear them in most ME countries (Iran, Saudia Arabia etc), and as more egalitarianist western countries, we should condemn their use.

 

[000Ronald]

I find bherkas (is that how its spelt?) an infringement on human liberties, and certainly one of the most sexist things around today. Women are forced by law to wear them in most ME countries (Iran, Saudia Arabia etc), and as more egalitarianist western countries, we should condemn their use.

Even if they want to wear it? How does that make us any better than them.

Also, they think eating pork is unclean. Are you going to force everyone to eat pork, too?

It doesn't work like that.

Apologies and whatnot

 

[cuddly_tomato]

I find bherkas (is that how its spelt?) an infringement on human liberties, and certainly one of the most sexist things around today. Women are forced by law to wear them in most ME countries (Iran, Saudia Arabia etc), and as more egalitarianist western countries, we should condemn their use.

Here in the UK, girls are are forced by law to wear skirts no matter how cold it is outside and no matter how creepy their teachers are.

But there is a difference isn't there, this is jolly ole' England, and thus above reproach. Johnny Foreigner can take his customs and culture and F*** off.

*rolls eyes*

 

[DigitalSushi]

In not rascist, i just think its stupid as hell.

Sorry, you are. If you say a religion is stupid as hell (or any part of it) you are an intolerant racist.

Not an intolerant racist, just slightly racist, being intolerant to it means he would be a vocal propronant of them dying in a fire. Thinking something is stupid doesn't mean you are not tolerant to it.

I think they should take it off, at the retailers discretion, much like football shirts and hellz angels jackets, which less face it are a culture in themselves just as wearing a veil is.

But putting a law to state it, well that would make us intolerant dicks.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

The answer is yes. Religious conventions aside, if the store wishes to see the person's face (in case of robbery for example) that's for them to decide. If the person feels strongly enough about the veil, they can always take their business elsewhere.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

I find bherkas (is that how its spelt?) an infringement on human liberties, and certainly one of the most sexist things around today. Women are forced by law to wear them in most ME countries (Iran, Saudia Arabia etc), and as more egalitarianist western countries, we should condemn their use.

Here in the UK, girls are are forced by law to wear skirts no matter how cold it is outside and no matter how creepy their teachers are.

But there is a difference isn't there, this is jolly ole' England, and thus above reproach. Johnny Foreigner can take his customs and culture and F*** off.

*rolls eyes*

Condemning someone for their cultural differences is fairly silly. I don't agree with the laws and conventions of many places but I also know that such things exist for a reason. People often fail to grasp the fact that people from other places have a different outlook on life. In the US we don't even blink when someone trashes the pope, badmouths the president and draws caricatures of famous historical figures. In other places, such ideas are so alien that we seem like the evil savages.

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

My God man, you apologize for everything, even in the Ayn Rand thread, quit making the rest of us jerks look bad

Anyway I am absolutely amazed so many people are using 'religion is bad' and 'Islam is the dumbest faith' as an excuse. If that's your idea of a secular society, one in which people have their religions locked up in their homes, then you're no better then the oppressive faiths from before.

To be fair, religion is one of the most often leveraged excuses for war, and war represents the ultimate failure of rational discourse. Sure, religion has done a lot of good for a lot of people but that doesn't mean they're above reproach. The moment religion becomes a driving force in politics it becomes even worse. Justification for action is attributed to a divine entity, the nations people view themselves as "god's chosen" and, often people start doing silly things in general.

 

[cobra_ky]

Personally I disagree with the veil entirely. It is merely a vehicle for the disempowerment of women in a overly patriarchal society, by removing their identity. It saddens me when women in a full niqhab with, just the eyes showing, say that they don't feel confident without it. It's a form of mental conditioning to keep the women meek.

If you are interested, I'd recommend Persepolis by Marjane Satrapi as it shows what happened in Iran, the veil and dress codes being mandatory after the Shah was removed from power and the Islamic Revolution took hold.

this isn't a patriarchal islamic society though. it's Australia. this is something people choose to wear. i don't like the idea of telling women that have to wear less clothes than they are comfortable in.

Sorry, you are. If you say a religion is stupid as hell (or any part of it) you are an intolerant racist.

And this is the kind of response that has us walking on eggshells so we don't offend anyone. No one said they hated the people, just that they disagree with the traditions that they follow.
Huzzah for free speech?

Saying something is bad/you don't like it is okay.

Saying something is "stupid as hell" is an offense.

It's like a difference between saying "I don't think you are right" and "I think you are a stupid son of a twat".

Free speech ends when you insult someone.

1. speaking against religion isn't racism. religions are not races.

2. free speech most certainly does NOT end when you insult someone, you ignorant toad. (see what i did there?)

Is this a religion? I don't think there is something in any holy book about wearing motorycycle helmets. Anywhere.

No but why does religion have anything to do with it.

No wait, that's a bad way of putting it.

If my religion, for a completely stereotypical hypothetical - the Church of South Carolina, states that all men have the right to bear arms, and this is a world wide religion, are you going to let me walk around Australia with semi-automatic rifles?

My point is, the rule is not there to be racist, the same rule that applies to Muslim women and their head-dress applies to a bikers helmet, or a scalf over your face, or an imitation cowboy costume. It is asked of all patrons so that they can be identified on camera.

Are you actually comparing wearing a veil by women to walking with a pair of rifles on plain sight?

Plus, if a religion tells you do use/wear firearms, hurt people and stuff it's more of a cult or a sect.

actually, Sikh beliefs include wearing a dagger or sword at all times. in a lot of countries, the U.S. and U.K. included, it's pretty much legal (though there are of course restrictions.)


and we can we please, please not turn this into a generic religion argument? i can only correct so many people at a time.

 

[DigitalSushi]

I find bherkas (is that how its spelt?) an infringement on human liberties, and certainly one of the most sexist things around today. Women are forced by law to wear them in most ME countries (Iran, Saudia Arabia etc), and as more egalitarianist western countries, we should condemn their use.

Even if they want to wear it? How does that make us any better than them.

Also, they think eating pork is unclean. Are you going to force everyone to eat pork, too?

It doesn't work like that.

Apologies and whatnot

My God man, you apologize for everything, even in the Ayn Rand thread, quit making the rest of us jerks look bad

Anyway I am absolutely amazed so many people are using 'religion is bad' and 'Islam is the dumbest faith' as an excuse. If that's your idea of a secular society, one in which people have their religions locked up in their homes, then you're no better then the oppressive faiths from before.

you win an internets.