I love how they didn't include Bayonetta in this, cause she's sexualized without being sexist and that's a true argument that stands to reason....(good to know I wasn't being a douche when making it 
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Skullgirls and Sexism
- Thread starter Grahav
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First off, I was not aware that Painwheel and Valentine were new characters to the game (I actually confirmed it).
Second, it's strange how the development/unveiling has gone from cute, peppy, or attractive chicks (Filia, Cerrabella, Peacock, and Parasoul) to rather deranged and psychotic looking ones (Ms. Fortune, Painwheel, and Valentine). Not that there's anything wrong with that, just wanted to point it out.
Third, I get why people might think that this is sexism, but really, is this news to anyone? Here are a few titles that might have put up a much more suitable argument: Lara Croft, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball (so extreme, that you don't want to play volleyball!), etc. etc.
The possible explanation for this outcry of sexism is because it is a fighting game. All fighting games need some kind of appeal to set themselves apart from other similar two dimensional button mashers. Street Fighter has a large array of fighters with their own personalities and fighting styles, Mortal Kombat has all the blood and gore (and developed the ESPN rating for future games. Seriously, go look up pictures of old game box art made before the release of Mortal Kombat and try to find the ESPN rating.), Marvel vs. Capcom has the over-the-top hyper combos and roster of famous characters, Super Smash Bros. does the same with familiar Nintendo characters and a simple fighting mechanic, etc. etc.
The point is that Skullgirls' appeal comes from it's style, roster of female characters, it's fighting mechanic (assists, special attacks, infinite combo blocker, multiple match-up types, etc.), and an ever expanding roster.
I'm excited to try this game out when it is released to see how it will stack up to other fighting games. If this game happens to have a shortage of male characters, then that's a luxury that I am prepared to live without.
Second, it's strange how the development/unveiling has gone from cute, peppy, or attractive chicks (Filia, Cerrabella, Peacock, and Parasoul) to rather deranged and psychotic looking ones (Ms. Fortune, Painwheel, and Valentine). Not that there's anything wrong with that, just wanted to point it out.
Third, I get why people might think that this is sexism, but really, is this news to anyone? Here are a few titles that might have put up a much more suitable argument: Lara Croft, Dead or Alive, Soul Calibur, Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball (so extreme, that you don't want to play volleyball!), etc. etc.
The possible explanation for this outcry of sexism is because it is a fighting game. All fighting games need some kind of appeal to set themselves apart from other similar two dimensional button mashers. Street Fighter has a large array of fighters with their own personalities and fighting styles, Mortal Kombat has all the blood and gore (and developed the ESPN rating for future games. Seriously, go look up pictures of old game box art made before the release of Mortal Kombat and try to find the ESPN rating.), Marvel vs. Capcom has the over-the-top hyper combos and roster of famous characters, Super Smash Bros. does the same with familiar Nintendo characters and a simple fighting mechanic, etc. etc.
The point is that Skullgirls' appeal comes from it's style, roster of female characters, it's fighting mechanic (assists, special attacks, infinite combo blocker, multiple match-up types, etc.), and an ever expanding roster.
I'm excited to try this game out when it is released to see how it will stack up to other fighting games. If this game happens to have a shortage of male characters, then that's a luxury that I am prepared to live without.
The fact that the girls are sexy isn't sexist. However, the dev's claim that it ISN'T sexist just because a woman animated them is stupid. As I mentioned in the other topic discussing this: women are capable of being sexist against themselves (and vice versa for men) Often, they will do it because they don't want to be seen as a "frigid ***** with no sense of fun". That's why most women will often objectify each other (two straight girls making out in a pub for example).Grahav said:Skullgirls is a future fighting game which has an all girls cast.
Obviously there has been some controversy about sexism in the game.
Here are the characters so far.
One of the creators posted a text concerning the issue.
Hi guys~ it's been a while. Things have been really busy here, but I think I have some time to do a small update.
I am compelled to reply to some recent controversy regarding Skullgirls and sexism. I'd rather just focus on the game, and let the product speak for itself. If things go as intended, all questions and concerns would be addressed in due time.
To be honest, people will always complain about something. That's just how the internet is. I wouldn't normally get involved with these discussions, but the issue was "officially" addressed in a rather horrible way, so now I'll need to chime in.
Our quote was taken out of context and shouldn't have been taken as an actual, serious argument against sexism. It's rather disrespectful to both Kinuko and her work, as well as the company as a whole. If you read the whole article, you will see that there is an anecdote that demonstrates the absurdity of this female-animator argument. I wish it was made more clear that we don't support the female-animator argument as a valid point against sexism at all. It has an incredibly misleading tone since the very first quote is "our lead animator is a woman." It's also in poor taste to call out another game/character by name as an example... I feel like these quotes all came from a conversation, rather than an actual interview.
I'd like to spend a bit of time to explain why Skullgirls is the way it is, and where it's coming from.
Ultimately, the things you see in Skullgirls are there because it just happens to be stuff that I wanted to do. There are elements in the world that are just here because it's cool and was fun to make. I enjoy drawing girls and monsters. I particularly enjoy drawing monster-girls. There is something more exciting about a design that is both twisted and cute at the same time. It's more interesting than just an overly aggressive monster, or something totally saccharine. I also must admit that I have a preference to play female protagonists in a game. Whether the character is sexy or not, I think there is just something more fun and intriguing about a competent female lead character.
I totally understand that my style is not for everyone. The art style is more of a cartoon exaggeration, both in proportions and poses, with several inspirations mixed in. I would be pretty content if Skullgirls was a small project and had a niche following. If you enjoy the style of this game, I can never thank you enough for your support and welcome you to our world with open arms. If you have too much of a problem with Skullgirls, then this game isn't for you. To each their own. I'm ok with that notion, and would generally prefer to stay out of public discussions.
The idea of Skullgirls started to form back in my early college years, when I saw games like EFZ and Melty Blood. I was enchanted by the idea of independent developers making these types of games. I wanted to try something in similar spirit, but with my own style and characters. In other words, I wanted to try my own take on an all-female (or mostly female) doujin fighter. I'd design these types of characters for fun anyway. The initial cast for Skullgirls was actually a collection of ideas I had floating around, some dating back to high school. Filia ended up as the lead, because she was the last one before I said "this is Skullgirls." All-female properties have existed for decades, and it's nothing new. However, in most of them, the girls tend to be fairly sugary, innocent, delicate, or elegant in their style of action. For my take on it, I wanted to try something that had those elements, but mixed with a more twisted, sinister, and aggressive context.
I also wanted to try something that is a reverse of what's normally common in shonen manga (and, really, most every other media of entertainment). It's usually the case that the main hero, or contributing members of the team are male, and the female characters are delegated as sideline character, supporting roles, or even damsels in distress. Most female characters that seem like contributing members to the team eventually end up depowered or shoved to the side anyway. I always found this to be a bit annoying, and wanted to try something in reverse.
It's also important to point out the difference between something being sexy and being sexist. I think the role of a character plays more of a defining element than what they look like. People complain about hour-glass figured female characters, but rarely do they complain about muscular/ perfectly fit male characters. Both of these are completely fine and acceptable in my opinion. The real issue comes from what their role and actions are. If a character is a sideline character and their sole purpose is to be a sex object, then it is sexist. If the character is a competent contributor to the story, then it is not sexist, even if they look sexy. Looking at a screenshot by itself, or judging by the artwork alone is extremely short-sighted. People who make knee-jerk reactionary judgments should have never been acknowledged.
There is crazy double standard that this is such a huge issue for Skullgirls. I would not even address this if it wasn't for that article showing up.
Trying to catch up on comments and such, but I'll have to do the rest of that at another time, maybe a bit more tomorrow. But again, thanks so much for all the support so far- it really means a lot to us! m(_)m
-Alex
Source: http://oh8.deviantart.com/art/Skullgirls-272920402?q=sort%3Atime%20skullgirls&qo=0
Very interesting stuff.
I concur that for men getting as muscular as Ryu in SFIV must be as hard as getting a Cammy figure for women.
So no, the animation isn't sexist, but claiming that something isn't sexist just because a woman participated is EXACTLY like saying, "Well I asked my one black friend if he thought it was racist and he said it wasn't! So it's not racist!"
Why do you women care so much about sexism that appears in entertainment? Movies, games and such. They aren't the root of the problem, they just show that they exist. I'ts not like people who play the game suddenly become sexist.
If its just you not being able to enjoy your hobby because of the sexism, then I kind of understand. But you do understand this from buissness prespective? The developers aren't making their games have sexy women because they themselves hate women. Its to please the main audience, which is for especially the fighting genre the young adult male. But games like the Sims, or most of the bioware rpgs don't really include any sexism, because women are a big part of the audience. Should it be like this? No. Can you'r ranting affect this effective buissness model? No. As long as the genre consists of mostly males the content will be made to please males, the easiest way to accomplish that in the potrayal of women is to make them sexy.
For women who are sensetive about sexism, the gaming genre may not be the best choice. As harsh as it sounds, its true, and it is not because of some male superiority, it is just because of simple logic. I also promise you, as perchentage of female gamers grow, the devs will notice that and start making more "female friendly" games. Since they want customers, since they want money.
If its just you not being able to enjoy your hobby because of the sexism, then I kind of understand. But you do understand this from buissness prespective? The developers aren't making their games have sexy women because they themselves hate women. Its to please the main audience, which is for especially the fighting genre the young adult male. But games like the Sims, or most of the bioware rpgs don't really include any sexism, because women are a big part of the audience. Should it be like this? No. Can you'r ranting affect this effective buissness model? No. As long as the genre consists of mostly males the content will be made to please males, the easiest way to accomplish that in the potrayal of women is to make them sexy.
For women who are sensetive about sexism, the gaming genre may not be the best choice. As harsh as it sounds, its true, and it is not because of some male superiority, it is just because of simple logic. I also promise you, as perchentage of female gamers grow, the devs will notice that and start making more "female friendly" games. Since they want customers, since they want money.
Bah, not long ago I saw a guy got called a "pussy" and a "******" for complaining about sexism towards women.
You can call a guy who defends women gay, a pussy or a ****** because he did that but if a woman does it then she gets insults aimed at her sex rather than her actual act.
So, say a guy who cares about women is weak, soft, something like that, yep pussy.
If a woman who, say, defends animal rights is called a slut...well...that has nothing to do with animal rights, nobody can truly tell if she's a slut or not by her defending ducks or cows or w/e.
That's the distinction. The guy will feel bad too but he won't be insulted cause he's a guy, his position in the argument will be considered before the insults are fired. The woman...meh...who cares what a slut has to say, right?
So, say a guy who cares about women is weak, soft, something like that, yep pussy.
If a woman who, say, defends animal rights is called a slut...well...that has nothing to do with animal rights, nobody can truly tell if she's a slut or not by her defending ducks or cows or w/e.
That's the distinction. The guy will feel bad too but he won't be insulted cause he's a guy, his position in the argument will be considered before the insults are fired. The woman...meh...who cares what a slut has to say, right?
Well, I don't play any FPSs so I guess I've been shielded from those kids. I play fighting games online and besides that the only other experience I've had was FF11 which was an overwhelmingly positive one.Father Time said:
Not always but yes, we don't notice it cause we don't think about the reasons we get insulted when it happens but you'll see that the sexual insult will more than most be about a specific element in our argument, rather than the fact that we're male and disagree with whomever.RT-Medic-with-shotgun said:
If we're weak, we get called gay, if we're stupid, we get called stupid but without any elements of things thought of as "gay" most people wouldn't call a guy a "stupid fag", they'd just call him "stupid".
Father Time said:
Well, I guess I go to the good (or too-niche-to-be-known-to-kids) parts of youtube then since I've not had much of that either. Who even insults over youtube though, the chance you'll get a reaction out of someone is so miniscule.
