Slaughter in the Arctic circle??

[Serioli]

SNIP

Though when people do complain about the things you mention they are extremists,stupid-ass hippies,unrealistic vegans and so on.

Maybe it's more about getting everyday people to think 'Hey,how CAN I complain about wearing fur when I wear leather. How can I complain about whale/dolphin/dog meat when I eat cows and chickens etc.'

Then they-

1. Shut the hell up.
2. Move towards meat reduction/vegetarianism/veganism.
3. Continue being hypocrites.
4. [Other idea you can think of or I'll add in an EDIT]

As previously mentioned,for me it's the unnecessary suffering thing.

Largely because we don't need seal pelts to survive.

 

[KnightRider0717]

it's not really what it's called, sure "hunt" or "clubbing" is unappealing but it's because the people are uninformed that there's a lot of people against it. but even if it was called "happy seal fun time" people would still against it because of the pictures of the cute little pups and they think that people just smack the things until they die when in reality the pups aren't killed and there's science supporting the manner in while it's done as i've explained with the spinal cord getting severed. people just picture someone walking up to a while pup with a meat tenderizer and they want the hunt banned

Don't you think that people would look more into it if the title wasn't so unappealing?

i know people most people don't care to become educated towards a topic. if it's unappealing does it really matter? the way it works isn't as brutal as people think, so if they want to believe that somethings wrong then there's no point to try to clear it up unless they want you to since they probably wont listen if you force it upon them. the issue with it is when people believe it's something horrible and go off and yells it from the rooftops

Still worth a try though, right? If not, oh well, life goes on. Let people keep their opinions, invalid and misguided as they may be. Take comfort in knowing that you are at least willing to learn the truth, and that isn't something that can be taught. What someone else thinks will hardly affect you in the long run.

what people think could affect me in the long run. what if i was gay and wanted to get married but people where against it? or if someone decided to kill me or injury me for my race or beliefs?

 

[KnightRider0717]

So what I really wanted is public opinion on why this takes precedent.

Largely because we don't need seal pelts to survive.

there's a lot of things we don't need to survive like tv, books, games, internet, cars, etc.
how pissed off would the world be if someone said no one is allowed to drive or use the internet anymore? just because it's not needed for survival doesn't mean it is useless. all the seal pelts really do is reduce waste. if someone wants the fur so what, im sure there's someone who wants the meat

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Yet it still doesn't seem important, most of us live in capitalist societies (I guess we all do) and $ is clearly important and is scalable with the importance of life. It's foolhardy to pretend that chemical waste isn't dumped into our oceans every second.

To my point regarding luxury items- it is for the very fact that luxury items are substitute goods that it amazes people who take either moral or efficiency stances against seal clubbing that seal killing continues. What that means is "Why are people still killing seals for an item that is cheaply replaced and supporting an redundant industry when they could be better using their money elsewhere? As the support for said industry is fueled by consumer support of seal-sourced products then it is easier to eliminate the perceived problem by convincing consumers and industry participants to give up their decisions than to eliminate generally agreed upon 'bigger problems'."

 

[ShaqLevick]

I'm trying to ignore that seals are really fucking cute. It just seems like a really shitty way to kill something/for anything to die, you know? Clubbing? Come on. How primitive of us...

I could imagine many worse ways to die, it's not like you start clubbing with the flippers and work through all the organs to get to the head. Either you finish it fast or you're bad at your job. You're going to have to take yourself out of the equation, for the seals not concerned with how you felt about his passing. As I've said previously I've never been on a seal hunt, but I do fish and must say that what I do to that fish is far more barbaric than what the seal suffers. However, what I do is a great deal more humane than most commercial fishing boats. But I suppose those water breathing freaks deserved a terrible death, right?

 

[NickCooley]

A solid club to the spine is generally a painless kill. I say generally as of course sometimes a seal will survive, the same way some would survive the first bullet if you shot them in the wrong place.

To say either method is humane or barbaric is quite frankly bullshit.

 

[Serioli]

So what I really wanted is public opinion on why this takes precedent.

Largely because we don't need seal pelts to survive.

there's a lot of things we don't need to survive like tv, books, games, internet, cars, etc.

Though to be fair I don't need to go slip a knife between a dogs vertebrae everytime I switch on my computer.

Or is that why my internet keeps dropping

 

[ShaqLevick]

So what I really wanted is public opinion on why this takes precedent.

Largely because we don't need seal pelts to survive.

there's a lot of things we don't need to survive like tv, books, games, internet, cars, etc.

Though to be fair I don't need to go slip a knife between a dogs vertebrae everytime I switch on my computer.

Or is that why my internet keeps dropping

But you might as well of considering all the waste that went into creating said products, the power running into my PC this very minute comes attached to some sort of loss. Just because people don't want to know the real cost of things doesn't mean they shouldn't be told. After all Soylent Green is people and nobody was better off with the lies.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

there's a lot of things we don't need to survive like tv, books, games, internet, cars, etc.
how pissed off would the world be if someone said no one is allowed to drive or use the internet anymore? just because it's not needed for survival doesn't mean it is useless. all the seal pelts really do is reduce waste. if someone wants the fur so what, im sure there's someone who wants the meat

However in every one of those cases the efficiency to make the product or continue using them costs less than other options. I could, in theory, reproduce every book I own by writing every word with ink made from octopus ink and every page made from animal skins. This is foolhardy though as doing that would be not be an advantage to alternatives in a cost/benefit analysis. Taking the example a step further, I could desire to have all my books put onto elephant skin pages, making the page cost go up even further.

Of course none of the above examples reduce waste. Instead they encourage waste as the animals mentioned are not farmed, but instead only come from the wild (which incurs costs besides the act of killing due to the non-uniformity of the task).

 

[punkrocker27]

what people think could affect me in the long run. what if i was gay and wanted to get married but people where against it? or if someone decided to kill me or injury me for my race or beliefs?

Well yeah, that's different. But like I said, you have to choose your battles. When at first I heard about the seals being killed, I was like come one, these are seals we're talking about here. Really who gives a crap, right? But then I realized that issues have varying importance to different people. That's why we're allowed to assemble organizations like PETA and LGBTA if we want. After all, once we stop caring about the animals' rights, what's there to stop us from doing the same in regards to each other? So go ahead and get involved only as much as you wish to. Just don't blame other people for the way you live your life.

 

[Serioli]

But you might as well of considering all the waste that went into creating said products, the power running into my PC this very minute comes attached to some sort of loss. Just because people don't want to know the real cost of things doesn't mean they shouldn't be told. After all Soylent Green is people and nobody was better off with the lies.

No, I've checked the comparative pollutanats and waste that go into my products, Hell I went vegan for environmental reasons initially (although my reasons for staying vegan have expanded over the years)

If you want to extend that argument though,simply living in a Western society is wasteful (even if I never purchase another product beyond the bare minimum to survive (or fregan it),live in a cardboard box and drink rainwater) One example,my taxes pay for the street lights burning outside my window.

So do I continue living or commit suicide by poking a hole in myself (becoming an extremist obviously). I understand that suffering happens, in the natural and man-made world, it's a matter of reducing it as much as you can.

 

[Calgetorix]

Hunting to extinction is the natural order of things. If seals were endangered would that stop a polar bear from hunting it? NO! If it were a baby would it hesitate? NO! It wants to eat something. Trying to protect these animals is against the natural order of things (how ironic). That said, protecting endangered species is still probably for the best.

There's a difference in scale. Human population is reaching 6 billion. We also have the capability to understand the consequences of our actions which most animals don't. I think because of our bigger intelligence we should act accordingly.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

Well yeah, that's different. But like I said, you have to choose your battles. When at first I heard about the seal being killed, I was like come one, these are seals we're talking about here. Really who gives a crap, right? But then I realized that things have varying importance to different people. That's why we're allowed to assemble organizations like PETA and LGBTA if we want. After all, once we stop caring about the animals' rights, what's there to stop us from doing the same in regards to each other? So go ahead and get as involved only as much as you wish to. Just don't blame other people for the way you live your life.

*side bar*
Correlations have been found between animal abuse and domestic violence. The FBI was considering making a database that tracked animal abuse cases to more quickly identify future violent criminals.

 

[ShaqLevick]

But you might as well of considering all the waste that went into creating said products, the power running into my PC this very minute comes attached to some sort of loss. Just because people don't want to know the real cost of things doesn't mean they shouldn't be told. After all Soylent Green is people and nobody was better off with the lies.

No, I've checked the comparative pollutanats and waste that go into my products, Hell I went vegan for environmental reasons initially (although my reasons for staying vegan have expanded over the years)

If you want to extend that argument though,simply living in a Western society is wasteful (even if I never purchase another product beyond the bare minimum to survive (or fregan it),live in a cardboard box and drink rainwater) One example,my taxes pay for the street lights burning outside my window.

So do I continue living or commit suicide by poking a hole in myself (becoming an extremist obviously). I understand that suffering happens, in the naturaland man-made world, it's a matter of reducing it as much as you can.

So lets stop demonizing the Newfies, or any nation who goes about this practice. We need to look at real issues, or we could stop hunting the seals, but I better here a few stories about how the diminishing ice in the arctic circle has led to an uncontrolled starving seal population. And we the Canadian people aren't making any headway in culling the herd, because when their population crashes a great deal of them are going to feel a lot more pain than a quick death.

 

[AntiAntagonist]

So lets stop demonizing the Newfies, or any nation who goes about this practice. We need to look at real issues, or we could stop hunting the seals, but I better here a few stories about how the diminishing ice in the arctic circle has led to an uncontrolled starving seal population. And we the Canadian people aren't making any headway in culling the herd, because when their population crashes a great deal of them are going to feel a lot more pain than a quick death.

Technically this isn't an 'either or' issue. With such a large society we could do without seal killing as well as reduce carbon production/killing in third world countries/poverty/hunger.

 

[ShaqLevick]

So lets stop demonizing the Newfies, or any nation who goes about this practice. We need to look at real issues, or we could stop hunting the seals, but I better here a few stories about how the diminishing ice in the arctic circle has led to an uncontrolled starving seal population. And we the Canadian people aren't making any headway in culling the herd, because when their population crashes a great deal of them are going to feel a lot more pain than a quick death.

Technically this isn't an 'either or' issue. With such a large society we could do without seal killing as well as reduce carbon production/killing in third world countries/poverty/hunger.

And yet the planet is fubar, cute things really don't matter. Sure as a society we could do a lot, but we certainly don't. So maybe we can only deal with one subject at a time, would you put a seal hunt on the top or bottom of the to do list?

 

[Serioli]

So lets stop demonizing the Newfies, or any nation who goes about this practice. We need to look at real issues, or we could stop hunting the seals, but I better here a few stories about how the diminishing ice in the arctic circle has led to an uncontrolled starving seal population. And we the Canadian people aren't making any headway in culling the herd, because when their population crashes a great deal of them are going to feel a lot more pain than a quick death.

Or do both (see my earlier bit about 10 murders vs 1000 burglaries).

'They do worse things' could excuse many cases of [insert morally questionable action here].

 

[ShaqLevick]

I guess I don't really have that fragile a sense of morality. The end always justifies the means, period.

 

[Serioli]

Is doing what you can (easily?) do to reduce suffering a fragile sense of morality?

What exactly is a fragile sense of morality and is having it such a bad thing? (REAL men kill animals)....