So according to some feminists, this anti-rape ad campaign is sexist

[Escapefromwhatever]

Rape is the rapist's fault. Target your ads at them, not the victims.

Again, what will ads towards rapists do? They know it's wrong, they know the punishment, etc. They just straight up don't give a damn.

Thus, if rape commercials are going to be effective in any measure, it'll be from helping to arm women with basic know-how and situations to avoid.

See my post earlier in the thread.

 

[Radelaide]

Feminists are idiots. They're the worst thing to happen to women's rights since the sammich.

Honestly, any way that you can get the prevention of rape out there is great.

 

[Vault101]

It is kind of sexist that the ad is treating it as the woman's fault. However, like it was said above, psychopaths don't need a rape ad to dissuade them. Caution is pretty much the only way to go here, unless women go vagina dentata on every possible rapist.

Which would be awesome.

whats that?

dont know if its the same thing but I swear on a cracked article I read about a female condom....thats had friggen BARBS on inside...like fish hooks...[i/]fish hooks[/i]

Rapex, or Rape-axe, a female condom type thing that has barbs in it that can only be removed surgically, though it's not the only one.

Men's Rights[sup]TM[/sup] groups tend to get up in arms any time such anti-rape devices are mentioned.

I dont see why the "rapx" or whatever would be much of a problem, that is unless you forget to take it out...and if youre drunk...hmmm yeah not the safest of all things I will admit

but yeah..if you rape somone (you know..full on no abmbigious rape) then sorry, you dont get to complain about your manhood being shredded

 

[LadyRhian]

You're claiming that women should know better than to dress provocatively because some men might think that she should expect to get raped for doing so, and they interpret that as a form of consent. That is victim blaming.

Wow guy, just wow. It is not victim blaming, it is FACT. Just like it is FACT that you increase your chances of injury by not wearing a helmet at a construction site.

Women can dress however they want. I'd be a liar if I told them I wanted them to dress in sweaters, because I appreciate the female body as much as the next guy. But with every action there are RISKS. Men seeing cleavage will be sexually attracted, it's as inevitable as gravity.

I've seen posters try to tell men this isn't a lead on before. Who knows whether it actually worked?

Telling a woman to take precautions and wear a helmet does NOT equal blame.

Try this on for size:

Oh no, a video of a proud woman telling us that the look of her skirt being related to her rape risk is ridiculous.

Well shit, I guess that means that guy at the bar DIDN'T say "She's asking for it", because that never happens. Ever. At all. It's soooooooooo misunderstood.

It's telling men that no one is "asking to be raped". Way to miss the point of the video. Why is rape the only crime that can be excused by what the victim is wearing? People who beat other people up or steal their wallet can't throw the blame on their victim don't say, "He was wearing a Giants T-shirt- I had to beat him up/steal his wallet- I couldn't help myself- he was asking for it!" Yet, let a woman wear something that shows off her body even a little and "She was wearing provocative clothing- she was asking for it!" suddenly becomes an okay defense?

If you had a nice car, locked it up, etc, and still it got stolen, you went to the police to report it and got told, "Well, sir, you surely know cars of your type are one of the most stolen cars in the US. Even though you took precautions like locking the doors, it was your fault- you should have gotten a car of a less stolen make, model or manufacturer." That would be the same type of blame rape victims get.

 

[Evil Alpaca]

A lot of the discussion seems to be arguing about two separate issues.

Poster education - i.e. something someone is going to read in the span of a second

and

extended education - something someone is going to learn over an extended space of time. (I know its vague because this can be anywhere from a class to a semester, to 15 years behind bars.)

For Poster education - the idea of prevention makes the most sense. A large sign saying don't rape would be useless as many people have already pointed out. It doesn't provide much information but a warning is much easier to convey than an explanation of what is and is not rape under the law.

That second part is what extended education is for. That is where men need to be told this is rape and not to do it.

 

[thom_cat_]

The issue here is that if a woman is "dressed sluttily" or is just off her face this is no reason to rape someone, there is NEVER a reason to rape someone. That's what the problem with the message is. People should be able to do what they want to and not get raped. It's always the rapist's fault, and blaming the victim because they got drunk or dressed skimpily is just wrong.
Now I'm actually okay with the advert, because a message is better than no message at all, and the feminists that the title of this thread talk about probably agree. The quoted post seems pretty reasonable, and didn't call this sexist at all.
It's a bit of a fail on the OP's behalf for saying that they thought it sexist when this is in no way implied.

the problem is that feminsts generally dont see a difference between rapists and and normal guys, and whenever a femenist says "rape culture" its code for all men are rapists so its betterjust to ignore every word out of there ignorant mouthes

You're talking about misogynists here.
http://i.imgur.com/B2OQ1.png

 

[Xin Baixiang]

Snippity-doo

If I buy a $200,000 car, that looks just flat awesome, and I leave the engine running, keys in, windows rolled down, in the middle of Baltimore, with 5 grand in the passenger's seat, and a sign saying "I am a victim in waiting, please steal my shit", I bear some responsibility for my being taken advantage of. Is it my FAULT? No. It is not my fault. What it is, is my stupid decision placing myself in a situation that I obviously wanted to be victimized.

If I dress in an ultra-mini, drink twenty-eight tumblers of vodka while sucking face with some guy I don't know, grab his crotch and try to jerk him off, and then black-out in the bathroom in a bar known as "Rape Inc.", it is not my fault I was raped. It is totally, 100% the rapists fault. I however, made a series of STUPID DECISIONS that put myself in a situation that I should have expected to be victimized.

It might help if someone took the time to teach me that people aren't only there for good, benign reasons. Maybe an ad. Or good parenting. But that's just crazy talk.

 

[LadyRhian]

It is kind of sexist that the ad is treating it as the woman's fault. However, like it was said above, psychopaths don't need a rape ad to dissuade them.

You are assuming that rapists equate to psychopaths.

There's a massive amount of people who don't consider themselves rapists, because they don't consider what they have done to be rape. They've just had sex with someone who hasn't given consent, but it's somehow ok because she was unconscious, wife/girlfriend/whatever etc. There are loads of people who could benefit from knowing not to rape people.

...

You can't tell women they should bear the responsibility for not being raped without blaming them for it when it happens.

Secondly, of the 1 in 5 US women that are raped during their lives, only about 8% are raped by strangers.

http://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/nisvs/index.html

Funny thing about that statistic. It's a lie.

The FBI puts rape at occurring approximately 90,000 times in the year of 2010.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

Assuming that the trend continues(and it's actually been falling the past few years), you're looking at about 6.3 million rapes over the course of 70 years, which means that less than 3% of women ALIVE TODAY(this is not counting the people that will be born, this is just the numbers for today) will be raped.

1 in 5 is straight out bull crap and they inflate their numbers to make it seem like a much larger problem than it actually is. The include in it things like(and I'm quoting from the report)

"Sexual coercion is defined as unwanted sexual penetration that occurs after a person is pressured in a nonphysical(LTT note; should be non violent, but they're dishonest scumbags) way. In NISVS, sexual coercion refers to unwanted vaginal, oral, or anal sex after being pressured in ways that included being worn down by someone who repeatedly asked for sex or showed they were unhappy; feeling pressured by being lied to, being told promises that were untrue, having someone threaten to end a relationship or spread rumors; and sexual pressure due to someone using their influence or authority.

Asking your wife repeatedly for oral sex is NOT rape. Lying to a woman and telling her you're not married is NOT rape. Telling your girlfriend that her lackluster sexual drive is NOT rape. Promising someone a gift in exchange for sex is NOT rape(it's actually theft, since technically you're stealing from a prostitute). Blackmail very well could be rape and I'm willing to agree that it is, just because the argument sucks. Sexual pressure due to influence is sexual harassment, not rape.

Very few women and men will be directly impacted by rape. It's a heinous crime committed by a minority of criminal men, but it is not the epidemic people let on to be.

1 in 5 is a lie.

The statistic you are using is for "forcible rape", not rape as a whole. Your link even says so. Sorry, but that';s not the same thing, and your rant here is unfounded. And all your "NOT RAPE" declarations ARE RAPE. Just not "forcible rape". So I see equivocation on your part over statistics.

 

[LadyRhian]

Snippity-doo

If I buy a $200,000 car, that looks just flat awesome, and I leave the engine running, keys in, windows rolled down, in the middle of Baltimore, with 5 grand in the passenger's seat, and a sign saying "I am a victim in waiting, please steal my shit", I bear some responsibility for my being taken advantage of. Is it my FAULT? No. It is not my fault. What it is, is my stupid decision placing myself in a situation that I obviously wanted to be victimized.

If I dress in an ultra-mini, drink twenty-eight tumblers of vodka while sucking face with some guy I don't know, grab his crotch and try to jerk him off, and then black-out in the bathroom in a bar known as "Rape Inc.", it is not my fault I was raped. It is totally, 100% the rapists fault. I however, made a series of STUPID DECISIONS that put myself in a situation that I should have expected to be victimized.

It might help if someone took the time to teach me that people aren't only there for good, benign reasons. Maybe an ad. Or good parenting. But that's just crazy talk.

You snipped the part where I said you locked it and took precautions and still get blamed- that's what happens to women. And these are all rather extreme examples on your part- it's not even clear what post of mine you are responding to- great way to raise a strawman, isn't it?

 

[Xin Baixiang]

I'm not strawmanning, what I'm doing is saying that you're asking that they take precautions, but then saying that you shouldn't use posters or ads to teach those precautions.

 

[peruvianskys]

I remember seeing a great sign at a rally I was at once that said "What causes rape?" and then it had three options unchecked - alcohol, provocative clothing, and flirting - and then one that just said "rapists" that was of course checked. And that's really the crux of what this woman is saying, that we shouldn't make rape out to be some kind of consequence or natural result of alcohol consumption. Women should be taught to avoid dangerous situations, but there needs to be a much larger emphasis on educating men about consent and instilling respect and all that. I agree that ads like this are probably somewhat helpful, but they do perpetuate this quite offensive idea that somehow a woman is just guaranteed to get raped if she drinks, and she should just learn to deal with it, without any kind of focus on the man doing the raping. It'd be like having an ad campaign aimed at blacks that said "Don't go into bars in Southern towns or you'll get beaten up!"; it's probably good advice, but the focus should be more on teaching the offender to not offend rather than instructing the victim on how to avoid getting the offender's attention.

Also I think the ad is pretty sexual suggestive and I find that way more offensive anyway.

 

[LadyRhian]

I like the idea of them telling people not to drink to the point of stupidity, call me jaded but because at that point you are just as responsible for what you do as the drunk driver who crashes their car.

I am sure there are some cases where women are taken advantage of because they are drunk, but there are also a disgusting number that will regret a decision they made while they are drunk and scream rape a day after the fact, which I have seen happen to a friend of mine.

(sarcasm) And your friend should have known better than to take someone who'd been drinking to bed-also a stupid decision on his own part. He should have known he could have been called a rapist when the girl sobered up. (/sarcasm) It's no better to blame the man for this than the woman, isn't it? And yet, men have been armchair quarterbacking the decisions of women who got raped for a long time now.

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

The statistic you are using is for "forcible rape", not rape as a whole. Your link even says so. Sorry, but that';s not the same thing, and your rant here is unfounded. And all your "NOT RAPE" declarations ARE RAPE. Just not "forcible rape". So I see equivocation on your part over statistics.

Let me get this straight. If I ask a woman to give me oral sex multiple times and she complies, I just raped her?

That is so absolutely insulting to every woman that has been forcibly held down against her will and penetrated. You would seriously compare the two? They are the same? The battered victim and the woman that gives in are the same?

That's, frankly, disgusting.

 

[Xin Baixiang]

I like the idea of them telling people not to drink to the point of stupidity, call me jaded but because at that point you are just as responsible for what you do as the drunk driver who crashes their car.

I am sure there are some cases where women are taken advantage of because they are drunk, but there are also a disgusting number that will regret a decision they made while they are drunk and scream rape a day after the fact, which I have seen happen to a friend of mine.

(sarcasm) And your friend should have known better than to take someone who'd been drinking to bed-also a stupid decision on his own part. He should have known he could have been called a rapist when the girl sobered up. (/sarcasm) It's no better to blame the man for this than the woman, isn't it? And yet, men have been armchair quarterbacking the decisions of women who got raped for a long time now.

And everything any man has ever done is perfect fuel to ignore what men say now as "victim-blaming", right?

 

[Thaluikhain]

Funny thing about that statistic. It's a lie.

The FBI puts rape at occurring approximately 90,000 times in the year of 2010.

http://www2.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2009/offenses/violent_crime/forcible_rape.html

Assuming that the trend continues(and it's actually been falling the past few years), you're looking at about 6.3 million rapes over the course of 70 years, which means that less than 3% of women ALIVE TODAY(this is not counting the people that will be born, this is just the numbers for today) will be raped.

The FBI is changing the definition of rape next year to include such things as having sex with unconscious people, oral and anal rape, and rapes with objects, which they currently don't consider to be rape.

1 in 5 is straight out bull crap and they inflate their numbers to make it seem like a much larger problem than it actually is. The include in it things like(and I'm quoting from the report)

"Sexual coercion is defined as unwanted sexual penetration that occurs after a person is pressured in a nonphysical(LTT note; should be non violent, but they're dishonest scumbags) way. In NISVS, sexual coercion refers to unwanted vaginal, oral, or anal sex after being pressured in ways that included being worn down by someone who repeatedly asked for sex or showed they were unhappy; feeling pressured by being lied to, being told promises that were untrue, having someone threaten to end a relationship or spread rumors; and sexual pressure due to someone using their influence or authority.

Yes, that is a quote from the report. Of something they have defined seperately to rape, and thus doesn't form part of their rape statistics.

I dont see why the "rapx" or whatever would be much of a problem, that is unless you forget to take it out...and if youre drunk...hmmm yeah not the safest of all things I will admit

but yeah..if you rape somone (you know..full on no abmbigious rape) then sorry, you dont get to complain about your manhood being shredded

Because having those things around is saying that all men are rapists, or something. Usual knee jerk reaction from people claiming to speak for all men.

 

[thom_cat_]

I remember seeing a great sign at a rally I was at once that said "What causes rape?" and then it had three options unchecked - alcohol, provocative clothing, and flirting - and then one that just said "rapists" that was of course checked. And that's really the crux of what this woman is saying, that we shouldn't make rape out to be some kind of consequence or natural result of alcohol consumption. Women should be taught to avoid dangerous situations, but there needs to be a much larger emphasis on educating men about consent and instilling respect and all that. I agree that ads like this are probably somewhat helpful, but they do perpetuate this quite offensive idea that somehow a woman is just guaranteed to get raped if she drinks, and she should just learn to deal with it, without any kind of focus on the man doing the raping. It'd be like having an ad campaign aimed at blacks that said "Don't go into bars in Southern towns or you'll get beaten up!"; it's probably good advice, but the focus should be more on teaching the offender to not offend rather than instructing the victim on how to avoid getting the offender's attention.

Also I think the ad is pretty sexual suggestive and I find that way more offensive anyway.

This, this and more this.
You sir have nailed it. Probably with a rocket into the moon you've nailed it that good.

 

[lizabeth19]

It's sexist because rape can happen to men and...where's the ad telling men to watch what they drink so that they can say 'no'?

 

[Lazier Than Thou]

Yes, that is a quote from the report. Of something they have defined seperately to rape, and thus doesn't form part of their rape statistics.

I beg pardon, I didn't see that. Could you provide a direct quote from the article explaining this?