I knew one of the riot cops who attended, ex-army with a fair amount of overseas deployment, and his comment on the whole thing was "I've seen better behaved firefights."Archangel357 said:
So I went to a strip club the other day...
- Thread starter MrFluffy-X
- Start date
Recommended Videos
"Unrestricted free market capitalism"?FieryTrainwreck said:
Come on. Don't make me out to be some asshole capitalist with no regard for my fellow man.
Where there is demand, there will be supply. Such is the way of the world.
If a woman is able to feed her family, or even just herself, by stripping(and make more money from that, than flipping burgers from McDonalds), that may seem like a better option to her.
But yes, if prostitution was legalized I would be defending that just as well.
For the record: I take it you are also against male strippers? And male prostitutes, for that matter?
~~
Also, we're talking entertainment value here.
You cannot talk money in specific terms when speaking of service employees.
A bad stripper makes less than a good stripper.
A bad burger-flipper doesn't make less than a good burger-flipper.
You cannot compare an exchange of money for service, with an exchange of money for product.
You can expect the product you buy to have some set standard, and the price will most likely stem from the cost of the product plus some profit margin for the company making it.
When we're talking service, there is no set standard. You could compare a strip-club service to the "service" of an actor in a movie. There is no set standard for an actor, although better actors earn better roles and thus more money. Better strippers earn a bigger crowd, more regulars and therefore more money.
Why are we throwing seven-figures at actors for portraying one single character in one single movie? I don't know. That's life. That's entertainment.
Your argument should also be applied to actors then, and everyone other profession merely exchanging a "service" rather than a product. An auto-mechanic, perhaps. One can complete the education without being an especially good mechanic, and will then earn less money. One can be a super mechanic, and earn more.
Why are we paying outrages amounts of money to professional footballers? We like to watch it. It's fun. It's entertaining.
Why do you pay..., etc., etc. - This is what you should compare it to. There is no set standard for pay, nor performance(although some performance is expected, proportional to the pay), for "services".
This has nothing to do with "unreasonable pressure" on moral beliefs. It has to do with each person individually. If you think every woman feels pressured to do stripping because of society, the American economy(and economic system), then you're the one discriminating women and not me. Women aren't weak-willed like that... If they were, everybody would already be a stripper.
I'm not really sure what you point it, and I'm quite certain I've just moved away from it in my post. What was your point again? Have I addressed it?
As a note: I'm in no way promoting capitalism. I'm an anarcho-socialist at heart, and would love nothing more than the complete downfall of capitalism - that doesn't mean I'm without reason, however, and am able to distinguish.
I've been a few times, but not for many years. I find them strangely non-sexual.
Personally, as a few others have mentioned, I reckon the only people being exploited in strip clubs are the customers.
Personally, as a few others have mentioned, I reckon the only people being exploited in strip clubs are the customers.
I went to one 2 years ago when I was 14.It was okay.But not as good as expected.
I had to pay 5 Levas to get in.And then I realized that I din't have any money on me after that so I couldn't really do anything other than watch.And the girls spoke fairly fractured English.So that kinda led to some minor problems.
I had to pay 5 Levas to get in.And then I realized that I din't have any money on me after that so I couldn't really do anything other than watch.And the girls spoke fairly fractured English.So that kinda led to some minor problems.
Way to take my point the wrong way. I didn't say men hate the ladies bodies, I just stated that not every single male wants to see it for cash. That is what a strip club does, doesn't it? Women stripped down for money, right? And since there isn't a strip joint on every corner, I'm pretty sure that not every guy goes to them. Because I'm pretty sure there are a hell of a lot of males in the world, and that strip clubs are not the size of football stadiums to take every man in.Archangel357 said:
Again, you completely misread my post, and took it about women in general, and not about strip clubs. Calm down man.
Wouldn't these beliefs be contradicting?s0denone said:
OT: Funny that I should stumble across this topic. Had the best night of my life yesterday. Heard of club-hopping? We went strip-club-hopping.
I went to one last year (I was 15 at the time), while I was in France on a school tour. It was pretty stupid honestly; some chick took her top off and danced around and then went on her merry way, but not before offering all of us sex for money, can't forever that.
But how else could you combine them? Fun with friends, and... Oh, my god. Never mind.Maze1125 said:
Also, I've never found nudity sexually attractive. That's right, I'd rather the girl had clothes on. Hell, I can only get a boner if at least one of my fetishes are being called into play, and both of them are taboo.
I have. Once in Estonia and once in Finland, both in one day. A little trip we made for a friend's bachelor party. The difference was pretty amazing too. In Finland our (and especially the lucky groom-to-be's) experience was much like yours. We had fun, the girls, from what I could tell, were having fun and the atmosphere was great. In Estonia, however, there was this lingering vibe of exploitation going on. We were even offered sexual services. We declined.
EDIT: That said, it's not something I'll be doing in a regular basis.
EDIT: That said, it's not something I'll be doing in a regular basis.
I distinguish readily between services that challenge your mind, save your life, build community, mimic hobbies, so forth, and services that prey on the biological imperative to procreate. I feel a strong differentiation, and I'm nowhere near alone. That's why strip clubs have the "creepy" label and professional basketball does not.
Real jobs require training, skill, and/or education. Stripping and prostitution require only a willingness to subject yourself to certain behaviors. They are minimum wage jobs that do not pay anything close to minimum wage. That vast chasm of difference in compensation isn't some untethered remainder. I think it's set very neatly against integrity in this particular service exchange.
Now if you want to argue the legality of these things on a case by case basis (which I believe to be the only sensible approach), that's fine. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and people should be the ones drawing it with respect to their collective moral inclination - which is to say, it's not an issue that can be reasonably debated by just two people. In America, we've decided stripping is legal, and that's that. I'm wrong.
But your defense of this occupation, or the solicitation thereof, should not depend on the fact that women are willingly submitting themselves to this job. You're not taking into account those free market pressures, economic realities, or even minority psychology in general. For the record, I think male stripping is just as pathetic, and I do not support the legalization of prostitution in any form. These are demeaning jobs created by the demands of people who don't care that they're demeaning other people. That's my take.
The start and end of the discussion should probably just be "it's legal". To that, I have no response; I am beaten. Not that such has ever made a thing right, but opinions are really meaningless in the end, aren't they? Besides, I've obviously gone to the strip club multiple times despite my beliefs on account of severe peer pressure. I even had some fun. Turns out I'm perfectly capable of selling my own moral standards down the river without much fight, so I'm certainly no better than other patrons or the strippers.
Far bigger issues in the world right now, too. I've just got my sights on the negative influences of big business, and this seems to me like yet another instance of money compromising values. The end result isn't fantastically detrimental to human existence, though, is it?
Real jobs require training, skill, and/or education. Stripping and prostitution require only a willingness to subject yourself to certain behaviors. They are minimum wage jobs that do not pay anything close to minimum wage. That vast chasm of difference in compensation isn't some untethered remainder. I think it's set very neatly against integrity in this particular service exchange.
Now if you want to argue the legality of these things on a case by case basis (which I believe to be the only sensible approach), that's fine. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and people should be the ones drawing it with respect to their collective moral inclination - which is to say, it's not an issue that can be reasonably debated by just two people. In America, we've decided stripping is legal, and that's that. I'm wrong.
But your defense of this occupation, or the solicitation thereof, should not depend on the fact that women are willingly submitting themselves to this job. You're not taking into account those free market pressures, economic realities, or even minority psychology in general. For the record, I think male stripping is just as pathetic, and I do not support the legalization of prostitution in any form. These are demeaning jobs created by the demands of people who don't care that they're demeaning other people. That's my take.
The start and end of the discussion should probably just be "it's legal". To that, I have no response; I am beaten. Not that such has ever made a thing right, but opinions are really meaningless in the end, aren't they? Besides, I've obviously gone to the strip club multiple times despite my beliefs on account of severe peer pressure. I even had some fun. Turns out I'm perfectly capable of selling my own moral standards down the river without much fight, so I'm certainly no better than other patrons or the strippers.
Far bigger issues in the world right now, too. I've just got my sights on the negative influences of big business, and this seems to me like yet another instance of money compromising values. The end result isn't fantastically detrimental to human existence, though, is it?
I would write anarcho-communist if I hadn't had my head up my arse. I'm not sure why anarcho-socialist would be contradicting, though - care to explain?Pimppeter2 said:
Regardless--- That's not what I meant to write. I was quite tired, I think, like I am right now.
Ah, that makes more sense.s0denone said:
They would be contradicting because as an Anarchist you woudn't want the State to exist, yet as a Socialist you would want the State to be more involved in your life (assuming that you'd be going by the modern meaning of Socialism)
Makes sense. Alright then.Pimppeter2 said:
Cheerio
OT:
Having read multiple articles on the subject, I think I am free to declare several truths:
Strip clubs are good for your health.
Strip clubs are a source of income or entertainment for everyone involved.
Strip clubs offer a setting for a party or other social gathering.
Strip clubs may or may not be the Devil.
Strip clubs may be the creation of a large rubber duckling.
I've been to strip clubs four times so far. Once on Valentine's Day of this year, another time right around my birthday of this year, once this year's July the 4th, and again last week to enjoy myself after a long stressful week of work. The first time was fun, but I was new to the whole thing so I was nervous. The second time sucked because none of the dancers were good. I then went to a different club the third time and had fun again, as the club was much more roomy and the girls were nice. That and they allowed touching. The fourth time was at the same club I went to for the third time, but it wasn't as great in my opinion. I'm going to wait a while for the next time I go to one.
I don't have anything against you if you want to do it, and your points do make sense. I'm just saying that I would not be able to do that. I just wouldn't feel right treating someone else like a display. But if you want to do it, fine. I'm not judging you.Rutskarn said:
my friends are I are thinking of going to one when we go on our roadtrip before college next month. None of use have been to one yet, and since the trip will be a "last hurrah!" since we are all going to different colleges and won't see eachother for a while, we might check one out.