So, on a scale of 1-10, how bad is this?

[NinjaDeathSlap]

First of all, no this is not me I'm talking about here. Seriously. But I want your opinion on this because I don't feel right about it and got into a huge fight over it.

A buddy of mine went out dancing with his best friend last weekend. This best friend of his is a girl and they spend all their time together.

The other day we were hanging out and he tells me that that night they both got drunk and went back to her place, and while she was passed out drunk he "felt her up". I asked him what he meant. He said he just kind of groped her or whatever but not actual sex.

I was disgusted. And I am no prude. But this just kind of crossed the line to me. I told him he's not really her friend because a true friend would never do anything like that. I know he's always wanted more from this girl and they are super close. But that's why I was upset. Because she obviously trusts him, and then she passes out and he totally takes advantage of her. Again, according to him, he didn't actually do the deed and he said he only did it for a few minutes before crashing on the couch, but just the fact that he was doing stuff to her while she was out like that just seems wrong to me.

Am I overreacting?

Well, legally what he did was sexual assault. So yeah, I'd say it's not worth putting a number on it. It's just fucking wrong and that's all there is to it.

Are you going to tell her what he said to you? It's a pretty fucked up situation but if they were my friend I'd think they deserved to know if someone they trusted had groped them while they were unconscious.

 

[Liquid Paradox]

Congratulations, your friend is a sex offender. Tell her. Fuck letting him tell her himself... he lost that right.

Sound's to me like you are actually underreacting.

It's fucked up, but you said they BOTH got wasted. Now, people do a lot of dumb shit when they're wasted. I mean, people say that I threw a blanket over the balcony on New Year's Eve two years ago, but I don't remember shit.

You have every right to kick him in the dick and never talk to him again, but you (and his lady friend) should keep the alcohol factor in mind.

One big problem here... Throwing a blanket over a balcony is not even comparable to molestation... because guess what? that's what the friend did. Anyone who thinks for even a moment that it's okay, because whatever, he was drunk... well, to put it nicely, they are wrong.

The friend should be in prison.

 

[AlAaraaf74]

Thank God he didn't rape her, but touching her like that when she's passed out is still stick.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I was just pointing out an inequality. Not trivialising what happened to her. As you would have seen if you'd read the post before.

The proper reaction to something like this is not to call the police. He needs to know what he did was wrong and the woman needs to know what he did. People do stupid shit when they're drunk. Getting the police involved when no one was hurt is far more damaging than it is helpful.

There's no need to point out that inequality here, though. It's not relevant to the discussion in the slightest, which is about a specific incidence. This isn't a gender equality thread, or an all purpose thread about the ethics of sexual abuse. If you'd read the entire THREAD, you'd know you weren't the first person to bring this up, either, and one of the other people who did framed it as "This happens to men too, so women need to shut the hell up". Obviously you're not to blame for another person's idiotic comment, but "It happens to men tooooooo" is an inflammatory argument that derails the topic into gender warfare.

I agree that the right thing to do is have the woman informed...and the fondler should do it, not the friend. And then it's her call whether to involve the police, and she probably won't. We can't speculate as to whether "no one was hurt" though. Someone was fondled while sleeping. If she feels like this was abusive, then she has the right to feel that way.

 

[McNinja]

First of all, no this is not me I'm talking about here. Seriously. But I want your opinion on this because I don't feel right about it and got into a huge fight over it.

A buddy of mine went out dancing with his best friend last weekend. This best friend of his is a girl and they spend all their time together.

The other day we were hanging out and he tells me that that night they both got drunk and went back to her place, and while she was passed out drunk he "felt her up". I asked him what he meant. He said he just kind of groped her or whatever but not actual sex.

I was disgusted. And I am no prude. But this just kind of crossed the line to me. I told him he's not really her friend because a true friend would never do anything like that. I know he's always wanted more from this girl and they are super close. But that's why I was upset. Because she obviously trusts him, and then she passes out and he totally takes advantage of her. Again, according to him, he didn't actually do the deed and he said he only did it for a few minutes before crashing on the couch, but just the fact that he was doing stuff to her while she was out like that just seems wrong to me.

Am I overreacting?

I think it was a fairly hairbrained idea, but when you're drunk you tend to not make good choices. A female friend of mine has had this happen to her, but neither of them were drunk. But she woke up in the middle of it, because she had just fallen asleep. Does the girl know? If she has no idea, then she can't really do anything about it.

Are you planning on telling her? Because it seems like she has no idea. If she doesn't, I would have a good talk with this friend of yours on how long a rape jail sentence usually is. If she does know, then he should probably apologize profusely. Again, if he was drunk, he might've just done something he normally wouldn't have. Unless when he told you about it he was either proud or happy, if only slightly so. Then you need to tell her. Because if he realizes that that is the only way he'll ever get anything from her, he'll do it again.

 

[Mr.Pandah]

Yeah, but because he didn't use his dick makes it not rape, meaning this isn't as bad as rape. Pretty sure the charges are different and just look at the situation anyways. He couldve done a lot worse then fingers.

Ah, so if someone sexually assaults a woman with a phallic object, rather than his own penis, that's okay? It's "not as bad as rape?"

What makes rape awful is what happens to the victim. And whether you're being sexually assaulted and intruded upon by hands or by genitals, the result is the same. Your body is being sexually attacked without your permission.

How the attacker chooses to do it doesn't change that. If I rob you with a knife, or I rob you with a gun, I'm still robbing you. If I kill you with poison, or I kill you with a bulldozer, I'm still killing you. If I sexually assault you with my hands (or some object), or I do so with my penis, I'm still raping you.

Seriously, why apologize for this guy in any regard?

Oh boy here we go. You want me to be honest? I really don't give a shit. I was just throwing in my two cents like you were. Not entirely sure why I responded to your quote. So, sorry bout that.

 

[HentMas]

well I once stole a bra from a passed out girl just for kinks and giggles, but yeah i was 17 at the time, and people do stupid things to drunk/passed out people in a party

 

[Woodsey]

Its like I saying "I punched him, I didn't kill him". I've used some stupid analogies before but that was amazing(ly awful).

Get some perspective.

Sexually assaulting someone with your hands isn't any better than sexually assaulting them with your genitals. What is done to them is the same--a sexual violation of their body. All that's different is how you chose to do it.

In that regard, it's like someone who killed a person arguing it's somehow "better" because they chose a different weapon. I'm certainly not arguing that rape is as permanent as murder, I'm simply making it clear that the method doesn't change the severity of the crime.

It completely and entirely works, unless you're overreacting to the use of the word "murder." Again, I didn't in any way indicate I was saying rape is comparable in severity to murder.

There are varying degrees of "sexual assault" (its technically rape for an 18-year-old to sleep with a 15-year-old but you wouldn't call him a rapist, would you?). You can't even tell what the guy actually did from the OP's description.

What your comparing it too wasn't the point; as a matter of severity, its totally wrong.

(And actually, I think you'd struggle to find someone who thinks that a cheeky drunken grope is equal to full-on, penetrative rape.)

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Please argue against the point I made instead of insulting me personally.

I... didn't?

I disagree that it 'isn't that big of a deal'. I think it is a huge deal.

Imagine if you were the girl involved, would you want to know? I certainly would, because I wouldn't want to spend any more time at all with some guy who molested me in my sleep. I would want that person out of my life completely forever, and they would deserve it.

I wouldn't inform the police, however I'd fully back up the girl in question if she chose to, and I would definitely make sure she found out, either from him confessing or by me telling.

Yeah, but in this situation you are friends with the idiot who touched her as opposed to the girl. In all honesty assuming I was a girl? No, I wouldn't want to know that a good friend of mine was a deviant.

It's in the same boat of an 18 year old sleeping with a 16 year old. His life is ruined forever for something like that, and this arguably wasn't even as bad.

There's a thing called trust in this world, and if your first reaction to someone who tells you something like this in confidence is to rat them out, you are no better than that person. It wasn't rape, she wasn't damaged from it. If the roles were reversed, no one would care.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Dude, I don't think you've ever been legitimate friend if you think it's okay to let something like this slide. Friendship isn't about going out for beers together or going to parties together or checking out chicks and being like "Yo, I'd totally bone her."

I never said it was.

It's about backing each other up when a fight breaks out, letting somebody stay overnight on 5 minutes' notice because of an emergency, calling in a few favors to get your friend out of a tight spot. You know. That sort of shit.

Frankly, if a guy molests his own friend in her sleep, I'm not sure how dependable the man is. And I certainly wouldn't want him as my friend, backing me up in fights and whatnot.

Would you not consider that a tight spot? I think it's been determined that this person was talking about this in confidence and was sorry for this particular situation.

He was shit faced drunk and he had a moment of weakness. He didn't rape here when he could have. If that's really all it would take for you to say "Back off freak", then I still stand by what I said. This is the moment where a true friend shines through and the ones who never cared rat you out to the girl.

There is so much worse shit that he could have done to where I'd still have his back.

 

[Hamster at Dawn]

I don't think it's right but it sounds like he was pretty drunk. I'd say under those circumstances, I might let it slide if he genuinely felt bad about it too. Still, I totally don't condone any kind of sexual assault and I think he should still tell the girl what he did and apologise to her. Whatever happens then is up to her.

I also find it a bit off that you're posting this publicly, to be honest. It's not really any of our business.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Just because he didn't hurt her or take it any farther doesn't make it right. And if the guy is really sorry about it then he should be telling the girl what happened himself and letting her decide what action to take. If I had a friend who did that but wasn't willing to own up to it, then I would definitely tell the girl for a number of reasons. First, anyone who's capable of doing that, even if it's just while drunk, is capable of doing it again and maybe even doing more. He committed a crime and just because the victim isn't aware of it doesn't make it right, nor does it mean he should get off scott free. I'd feel a responsibility to tell the girl if only to make sure it doesn't happen again. Because if you don't tell her and she's ever in a similar situation again, you can't know for certain he wouldn't do it or worse to her. At best you'd have his word to go by, and his word wouldn't be worth much after such an egregious violation of a friends trust.

I feel now is more a time then ever to remind you that just because they are laws doesn't mean they are right.

These are the same sexual assault laws that get's pinned to an 18 year old forever because ha had sex with his 16 year old girlfriend.

Am I saying this wasn't wrong? No, not at all. I think it's actually pretty sick. But are you going to tell me that this was worth getting your friend arrested and thrown in jail? That's what we call an over-reaction.

Seriously, you're acting like he's a serial rapist.

She needs to know if only so she can do whatever she feels is necessary to protect herself in the future. I'm all for trying to help the guy deal with what he did and why, whether that means therapy or whatever he needs, but you need to keep in mind that she is also a victim, and worse, doesn't even know what happened to her which means she could let it happen again.

I think the fact that she didn't know what happened to her was the safest part. If he's someone who has a serious physiological problem, then yes, maybe making efforts to keep him away from her would be a good idea. Assuming that he's some sexual deviant intent on doing it to her again is an overreaction.

 

[flamingjimmy]

Please argue against the point I made instead of insulting me personally.

I... didn't?

I disagree that it 'isn't that big of a deal'. I think it is a huge deal.

Imagine if you were the girl involved, would you want to know? I certainly would, because I wouldn't want to spend any more time at all with some guy who molested me in my sleep. I would want that person out of my life completely forever, and they would deserve it.

I wouldn't inform the police, however I'd fully back up the girl in question if she chose to, and I would definitely make sure she found out, either from him confessing or by me telling.

Yeah, but in this situation you are friends with the idiot who touched her as opposed to the girl.

Imo 'bros before hoes' does not apply in this situation.

It's in the same boat of an 18 year old sleeping with a 16 year old.

I disagree, its not even in a boat, it's in a rubber dingy, divided by the consent isthmus.

There's a thing called trust in this world, and if your first reaction to someone who tells you something like this in confidence is to rat them out, you are no better than that person.

Bollocks I am! The girl deserves to know that someone she trusts molested her in her sleep, its just that simple to me.

It wasn't rape

It was sexual contact without consent, that is way over the line.

If the roles were reversed, no one would care.

Not as much, no, because men and women are very different.

 

[agrajagthetesty]

I think the fact that she didn't know what happened to her was the safest part. If he's someone who has a serious physiological problem, then yes, maybe making efforts to keep him away from her would be a good idea. Assuming that he's some sexual deviant intent on doing it to her again is an overreaction.

Okay, I'll propose an analogy. What if, while you were away in a different country, a friend of yours broke into your house through an open window and went through all your belongings? He didn't steal from you, but he broke in and he went though every room in the house, and handled everything you own. He looked at all your most private possessions: he read your diary, your emails, your text messages, your letters. He went through your underwear drawer. Then, after he did all this, he confessed to a mutual friend about having done it.

Would you really not want to know that you were associating with somebody with such blatant disregard for your privacy? Wouldn't you feel betrayed by the third person if they didn't inform you? And if you did know, would it not affect your friendship at all? Do you think you would still trust him after this? Even if you didn't think he had intentions to do it again, wouldn't the one time be enough?

Now consider that the violation in the topic is far more severe than the violation outlined above. It was a violation of the body, not merely of private property. You can't get much more personal than that.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Imo 'bros before hoes' does not apply in this situation.

You are teetering dangerously close to putting words in my mouth.

This has nothing to do with bros before hoe's, this has everything to do with "he told me something illegal that he was ashamed of in confidence, and now I'm going to tattle on him"

I disagree, its not even in a boat, it's in a rubber dingy, divided by the consent isthmus.

If you really think that touching a girls breast warrants a legal disciplinary action like this, than you really have to get your priorities in check. Right now you are treating this as if she was raped while she was unconscious. It's nowhere near as serious.

Bollocks I am! The girl deserves to know that someone she trusts molested her in her sleep, its just that simple to me.

Well guess what? It wouldn't be your place to tell her.

If the guy feels that he fucked up enough to where he needs to let her know, than that should be encouraged. But if he doesn't want to tell her that he did it, then that is also his business.

It was sexual contact without consent, that is way over the line.

It was touching a girls boob while she was asleep, don't try to make it seem more detrimental than it is.

If the roles were reversed, no one would care.

Not as much, no, because men and women are very different.

Well there is some good bias for ya. If you wouldn't let a guy know that some chick felt up his junk while he was out cold, then why do you need to let this girl know?

If you legitimately think that this person who is a friend did something so vile and repulsive that you need to tell on him, than I really have nothing further to say to you. It's time you stop being so sensitive to things like this.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

Okay, I'll propose an analogy. What if, while you were away in a different country, a friend of yours broke into your house through an open window and went through all your belongings? He didn't steal from you, but he broke in and he went though every room in the house, and handled everything you own. He looked at all your most private possessions: he read your diary, your emails, your text messages, your letters. He went through your underwear drawer. Then, after he did all this, he confessed to a mutual friend about having done it.

Would you really not want to know that you were associating with somebody with such blatant disregard for your privacy? Wouldn't you feel betrayed by the third person if they didn't inform you? And if you did know, would it not affect your friendship at all? Do you think you would still trust him after this? Even if you didn't think he had intentions to do it again, wouldn't the one time be enough?

Now consider that the violation in the topic is far more severe than the violation outlined above. It was a violation of the body, not merely of private property. You can't get much more personal than that.

That analogy really doesn't work, and to be 100% honest with you, if the guy was honest to goodness feeling guilty and remorseful (like in this case), than yes, I don't think I'd mind not being told. I'm know that my friends aren't perfect, and I don't mind that. Hell, I've had friends who have done far worse than what you mentioned.

I've had friends with serious problems. But guess what?

They are my friends. Something that people here don't seem to understand.

He was drunk. She was unconscious. He touched her breast.

That was all. You people are acting like he raped her. I refer you to post 248. That accurately sums up what people are doing right about now.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

He was drunk. She was unconscious. He touched her breast. That was all.

Speculation. Nowhere in the OP's post did he say "he touched her breast". He just said that he fondled her. That could be anything from a vigorous backrub to digital penetration of her vagina for all we know. We have no idea. All we know is the guy's friend...an individual who has a significantly greater attachment to this guy than any of us do...was "disgusted", and felt that the groping...whatever the extent of it was..."just seemed wrong", and was something "a true friend would never do". Does that sound like "touched her breast"? Next you'll have him kissing her softly on the lips, or lovingly brushing a lock of hair behind her ear, just to underscore your presumptions about his astonishing innocence.

So, really...I know a few posters here are practically tripping over their feet in the stampede to rationalize this guy's sexual molestation of a girl who trusted him, but it would really help the quality of the discourse in this thread if we could stop re-writing events and actually go by the information that was provided for us. Which, for a refresher, was...

1. The guy always wanted a relationship with his female friend.
2. The guy waited until she was unconcious to fondle her sexually.
3. The guy was sober enough to remember the details of what he did, and how long he did it for.

If Captain Fondler is actually remorseful about what he's done, he needs to come clean to the victim, not his friend. And if what he did really isn't such a big deal, then nothing bad will come of that.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

He was drunk. She was unconscious. He touched her breast. That was all.

Speculation. Nowhere in the OP's post did he say "he touched her breast". He just said that he fondled her. That could be anything from a vigorous backrub to digital penetration of her vagina for all we know. We have no idea. All we know is the guy's friend...an individual who has a significantly greater attachment to this guy than any of us do...was "disgusted", and felt that the groping...whatever the extent of it was..."just seemed wrong", and was something "a true friend would never do". Does that sound like "touched her breast"? Next you'll have him kissing her softly on the lips, or lovingly brushing a lock of hair behind her ear, just to underscore your presumptions about his astonishing innocence.

So, really...I know a few posters here are practically tripping over their feet in the stampede to rationalize this guy's sexual molestation of a girl who trusted him, but it would really help the quality of the discourse in this thread if we could stop re-writing events and actually go by the information that was provided for us. Which, for a refresher, was...

1. The guy always wanted a relationship with his female friend.
2. The guy waited until she was unconcious to fondle her sexually.
3. The guy was sober enough to remember the details of what he did, and how long he did it for.

If Captain Fondler is actually remorseful about what he's done, he needs to come clean to the victim, not his friend. And if what he did really isn't such a big deal, then nothing bad will come of that.

Well he did say "groping" and I don't think that could really mean anything other than touching her breast.

And no, being remorseful doesn't mean that you need to tell the other person about it. The two aren't mutually exclusive. In this particular situation it may even be best not to tell her about it. If he was more adult about it, than that should be the action he should take but it is of no business to the OP, and it is not the OP's decision to make.

Plus, getting drunk to the point of where you don't remember something is called being black out drunk. Some people don't Black Out (me included), so they can be completely wasted and still remember what they did. This is a stretch, but I really doubt his intention that night was to get her unconscious to the point of where he could take advantage of her. If that was the case, than yes, it would be necessary to tell her.