Souls- Do we have them?

[Dys]

Yeah I suppose, but a specific part of your sunconscious, prehaps it's part of the element that defeines who you are? I honestly don't know.
I've just not heard a specific definition of what a soul is other than if you are good it goes to heaven and if you're not it goes in more of a hell direction. Surely then if it goes going to heaven/hell it must be part of your consciousness at some level, otherwise what would the point be? and is it doesn't have a physicialal form what better place than your mind for it to reside?

But you don't know that it goes anywhere and there's no reason to believe it exists...

Just stories from people who thought we were put here for a reason - because our natural way of viewing the world involves intentional stance. Unless we're taught otherwise, we believe changes in our environment are made by beings with intent. It's why children ask if someone can turn off the sun, rain, etc - or why people swear at their computers or cars for "betraying" them. In the second case, it isn't serious, but we have a strong urge to blame the computers themselves.

It's true that people invented the conept of a soul. However it is needed to help explain why people are different, why some people are good and others evil etc. Likewise we also cenceptually invented anger and elation, along with no shortage of physical concepts (electricity anyone?). Nobody is trying to argue agains those. I have alreay said I don't beleive in heaven and hell, but I see no reason why the soul can't exist in our mind, if only as a way for us to differentiat ourselves from each other.
There is no reason for gravity to exist, and it is only a theory, surely we can find a better theory than "everything that has mass exerts a force without any loss of mass or energy" to explain the phenomanon, yet find me someone who doesn't accept it on face value simply because it works. The soul, likewise, is simply a theory that fits snugly into an otherwise unnamed human characterisitic, it isn't necissarily supernatural or undying.

 

[Bulletinmybrain]

Religion are moral-based influencing systems, that use punishing you in the after-life so you don't go around doing willy nilly instead of being a good citizen.

Why is it that in thousands of years have we not found one peice of evidence to back it up, but we have found a multitude of reasons to support things like the universe constantly expanding, or the brain being thought processes and such.

Yeah I suppose, but a specific part of your sunconscious, prehaps it's part of the element that defeines who you are? I honestly don't know.
I've just not heard a specific definition of what a soul is other than if you are good it goes to heaven and if you're not it goes in more of a hell direction. Surely then if it goes going to heaven/hell it must be part of your consciousness at some level, otherwise what would the point be? and is it doesn't have a physicialal form what better place than your mind for it to reside?

But you don't know that it goes anywhere and there's no reason to believe it exists...

Just stories from people who thought we were put here for a reason - because our natural way of viewing the world involves intentional stance. Unless we're taught otherwise, we believe changes in our environment are made by beings with intent. It's why children ask if someone can turn off the sun, rain, etc - or why people swear at their computers or cars for "betraying" them. In the second case, it isn't serious, but we have a strong urge to blame the computers themselves.

It's true that people invented the conept of a soul. However it is needed to help explain why people are different, why some people are good and others evil etc. Likewise we also cenceptually invented anger and elation, along with no shortage of physical concepts (electricity anyone?). Nobody is trying to argue agains those. I have alreay said I don't beleive in heaven and hell, but I see no reason why the soul can't exist, if only as a way for us to differentiat ourselves from each other.
There is no reason for gravity to exist, and it is only a theory, surely we can find a better theory than "everything that has mass exerts a force without any loss of mass or energy" to explain the phenomanon, yet find me someone who doesn't accept it on face value simply because it works. The soul, likewise, is simply a theory that fits snugly into an otherwise unnamed human characterisitic, it isn't necissarily supernatural or undying.

Like I said in my post, we have evidence that supports it. A soul can't exist, because when you die nothing is alive. YOU DIE. Your bodies life functions stops because you're brain calls it a day and buggers off to go rot. Your brain controls your body, the human brain is behind every movement you make, and every thought you have. It works, why throw a wrench into the mix and make it go through the soul then back to the mind?

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

It's true that people invented the conept of a soul. However it is needed to help explain why people are different, why some people are good and others evil etc. Likewise we also cenceptually invented anger and elation, along with no shortage of physical concepts (electricity anyone?). Nobody is trying to argue agains those. I have alreay said I don't beleive in heaven and hell, but I see no reason why the soul can't exist, if only as a way for us to differentiat ourselves from each other.
There is no reason for gravity to exist, and it is only a theory, surely we can find a better theory than "everything that has mass exerts a force without any loss of mass or energy" to explain the phenomanon, yet find me someone who doesn't accept it on face value simply because it works. The soul, likewise, is simply a theory that fits snugly into an otherwise unnamed human characterisitic, it isn't necissarily supernatural or undying.

There is no reason for gravity to exist? Then why do objects on earth all seem to fall at 9.81 M/s^2? We can observe that things tend to fall when dropped, therefore something, or a property of things, is causing it to fall. This needs to be explained, so we have gravity. What "fall" is there that requires the explanation of a soul?

The reason why we differentiate ourselves from each other is because we're different people (duh ), who've been raised differently, experience different things, know different people differently because of their relationships and experiences with different people, have different bodies (with different genetics and chemical balances), and are generally self interested (most people believe they're in the top 25% in terms of goodness, unless they're depressive.). Because this is already explained, we don't need a soul as a reason.

 

[SnowCold]

I sold mine to the satan for an Ambassador, it sucks >=(

I have yours though.

 

[Drakenian]

To make things easier, explain to me why you think the brain controls everything and makes up a person's identity, and I'll try my best to respond.

Because it's the answer that makes the most sense. It's not what I want - why would I, after I get old and sick, want to believe my soul doesn't exist and I die long before my body rots in the ground? Why wouldn't I want to go to happy cloud land, or some other final rest? Because everything we know tells us otherwise. People die, ghosts only exist as hoaxes or in their mourners' "haunted" memories, and, as I've said, there's no reason to believe in a soul.

As I've said before, why believe in souls if, since our understanding of neuroscience and psychology, there's nothing to support the claim of a soul and no reason why we can't "come from" the brain? You're introducing something that doesn't need to be introduced.

I understand. But logic and reasoning can't be used to define everything, even when we think we know everything. You know why?

Because we never will know everything. It's like trying to explain the affection I still hold for my ex girlfriend with logic; it won't make sense, even if, scientifically, it does. Science and logic have never, and will never be able to explain why people do what they do. The only reasons and explanations we can come up with are speculation and what we think is happening.

And why shouldn't I introduce the thought of the soul? I'm not even sure if, when I die, I will go to heaven and reside in the clouds and be happy for all of eternity, but I'm sure that living creatures have a soul. My reason? It's just the way I think. My views on life and other things are different from yours, therefor, I believe different things. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe you are an idiot. I don't believe your views are wrong, and I'm not trying to convince you that my views are right. I only want to say what I believe, explain, and listen to other people's thoughts, which is why I'm still replying to you.

And also, every piece of logic and reasoning in the world will never change what someone feels is right. Logic dictates that the best thing to do whenever you are attacked by a bear in the wilderness is to run away and leave your friend to die. The reason is because, logically, your survival rate is better when you leave the bear alone and run away, but will you? Chances are, no, you won't. You might leave if that is the way you are or if you are so afraid you don't know what to do, but your conscience, your soul tells you what the right thing to do is.

I believe in the soul because I just do. It's not a logical thing, it is just something I know exists.

EDIT: You know, on second thought, the bear example was probably pretty bad... Everyone is born differently so...

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I sold mine to the satan for an Ambassador, it sucks >=(

You get what you pay for.

 

[Dys]

It's true that people invented the conept of a soul. However it is needed to help explain why people are different, why some people are good and others evil etc. Likewise we also cenceptually invented anger and elation, along with no shortage of physical concepts (electricity anyone?). Nobody is trying to argue agains those. I have alreay said I don't beleive in heaven and hell, but I see no reason why the soul can't exist, if only as a way for us to differentiat ourselves from each other.
There is no reason for gravity to exist, and it is only a theory, surely we can find a better theory than "everything that has mass exerts a force without any loss of mass or energy" to explain the phenomanon, yet find me someone who doesn't accept it on face value simply because it works. The soul, likewise, is simply a theory that fits snugly into an otherwise unnamed human characterisitic, it isn't necissarily supernatural or undying.

There is no reason for gravity to exist? Then why do objects on earth all seem to fall at 9.81 M/s^2? We can observe that things tend to fall when dropped, therefore something, or a property of things, is causing it to fall. There's nothing that makes us want to assume that something would fall.

The reason why we differentiate ourselves from each other is because we're different people (duh ), who've been raised differently, experience different things, know different people differently because of their relationships and experiences with different people, have different bodies (with different genetics and chemical balances), and are generally self interested (most people believe they're in the top 25% in terms of goodness, unless they're depressive.). Because this is already explained, we don't need a soul.

With gravity, what is wrong with the old elemental approach? The theory of gravity is incomplete, there is no such thing as an infinate force that uses no energy, yet the most common theory of gravity doesn't address this. My point is that it works so why question it, much like the concept of a soul.

People are raised differently yes, and that does make them different, but there is more to it than simply how they are raised, and it can't all be attributed to genetics (or maybe it can, I can't say) but all people, experiences and beleifs aside, will react to different scenarios differently, people are not born equal in the real world, despite what primary school teachers want to tell naive students. Some people are naturally gentlre while others are naturaly malicious, their upbringing has little to do with this. How can you say beyond all certanty that there is not an element of you're mind responsible for these inherent differencees, and I stress again the soul has not been defined as supernatural or godly, in fact it is largely undefined except for it controls your morals to a degree. Why can there not be an element of your mind responsible for this? better yet how can there not be? I am anti-theist, I don't beleive in gods or the supernatural, yet I simply cannot dismiss the concept of a subconscious part of the mind controlling the morals of man, as the majority of people act on morlas with differing zeal, some cannot comprehend it at all, there is something other than genetic and social differences that partially accounts for this.

 

[Drakenian]

It's true that people invented the conept of a soul. However it is needed to help explain why people are different, why some people are good and others evil etc. Likewise we also cenceptually invented anger and elation, along with no shortage of physical concepts (electricity anyone?). Nobody is trying to argue agains those. I have alreay said I don't beleive in heaven and hell, but I see no reason why the soul can't exist, if only as a way for us to differentiat ourselves from each other.
There is no reason for gravity to exist, and it is only a theory, surely we can find a better theory than "everything that has mass exerts a force without any loss of mass or energy" to explain the phenomanon, yet find me someone who doesn't accept it on face value simply because it works. The soul, likewise, is simply a theory that fits snugly into an otherwise unnamed human characterisitic, it isn't necissarily supernatural or undying.

There is no reason for gravity to exist? Then why do objects on earth all seem to fall at 9.81 M/s^2? We can observe that things tend to fall when dropped, therefore something, or a property of things, is causing it to fall. There's nothing that makes us want to assume that something would fall.

The reason why we differentiate ourselves from each other is because we're different people (duh ), who've been raised differently, experience different things, know different people differently because of their relationships and experiences with different people, have different bodies (with different genetics and chemical balances), and are generally self interested (most people believe they're in the top 25% in terms of goodness, unless they're depressive.). Because this is already explained, we don't need a soul.

With gravity, what is wrong with the old elemental approach? The theory of gravity is incomplete, there is no such thing as an infinate force that uses no energy, yet the most common theory of gravity doesn't address this. My point is that it works so why question it, much like the concept of a soul.

People are raised differently yes, and that does make them different, but there is more to it than simply how they are raised, and it can't all be attributed to genetics (or maybe it can, I can't say) but all people, experiences and beleifs aside, will react to different scenarios differently, people are not born equal in the real world, despite what primary school teachers want to tell naive students. Some people are naturally gentlre while others are naturaly malicious, their upbringing has little to do with this. How can you say beyond all certanty that there is not an element of you're mind responsible for these inherent differencees, and I stress again the soul has not been defined as supernatural or godly, in fact it is largely undefined except for it controls your morals to a degree. Why can there not be an element of your mind responsible for this? better yet how can there not be? I am anti-theist, I don't beleive in gods or the supernatural, yet I simply cannot dismiss the concept of a subconscious part of the mind controlling the morals of man, as the majority of people act on morlas with differing zeal, some cannot comprehend it at all, there is something other than genetic and social differences that partially accounts for this.

A very good point. And one I agree to.

By the way, the bear thing on my last post is probably a pretty bad example...

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I understand. But logic and reasoning can't be used to define everything, even when we think we know everything. You know why?

Because we never will know everything. It's like trying to explain the affection I still hold for my ex girlfriend with logic; it won't make sense, even if, scientifically, it does. Science and logic have never, and will never be able to explain why people do what they do. The only reasons and explanations we can come up with are speculation and what we think is happening.

And why shouldn't I introduce the thought of the soul? I'm not even sure if, when I die, I will go to heaven and reside in the clouds and be happy for all of eternity, but I'm sure that living creatures have a soul. My reason? It's just the way I think. My views on life and other things are different from yours, therefor, I believe different things. Don't get me wrong, I don't believe you are an idiot. I don't believe your views are wrong, and I'm not trying to convince you that my views are right. I only want to say what I believe, explain, and listen to other people's thoughts, which is why I'm still replying to you.

And also, every piece of logic and reasoning in the world will never change what someone feels is right. Logic dictates that the best thing to do whenever you are attacked by a bear in the wilderness is to run away and leave your friend to die. The reason is because, logically, your survival rate is better when you leave the bear alone and run away, but will you? Chances are, no, you won't. You might leave if that is the way you are or if you are so afraid you don't know what to do, but your conscience, your soul tells you what the right thing to do is.

I believe in the soul because I just do. It's not a logical thing, it is just something I know exists.

Look man, I'm not trying to attack you. I'm explaining why the concept of a soul isn't sound.

The thing about logic and non-faulty reasoning, is that if you abandon it, not only can I not argue with you - you're untouchable. The downside is, what you believe in becomes pointless, either because you know it's not true and you don't want to explore it further or because you aren't taking the time to understand it.

Whether or not I'm logical rather than impulsive doesn't change the fact that by abandoning logic, I won't learn anything and I won't be able to evaluate claims that people make. And then where would we be?

If you're in the woods and there's a bear there may be a rational way to save yourself and your friend. But if you just abandon reason and jump in to fight the bear and save your friend, well, you're both dead. "Congratulations hero." Dead, accomplishing nothing. But your bear example has nothing to do with the validity of my argument or the existence of a soul.

If you can't explain a soul with logic, what will discarding the idea of logic gain you?

 

[neoman10]

I kind of sensed the bias in the beginning of your thing but...

yes, yes I do think that I have a soul

why you ask? because animals have a brain, and while I do love my kitty so very much, I doesn't have emotions, sure you can single that down to relative Alpha A-99 on our biological tree, but things with brains have existed for along time

ohh just got me a example

Dolphins, smartest non-humans right? enjoy sex right? but have no emotions as far as I can see right? well the answers is yes to all

(and before this comes up, GOOOOOO JESUS!)

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

With gravity, what is wrong with the old elemental approach? The theory of gravity is incomplete, there is no such thing as an infinate force that uses no energy, yet the most common theory of gravity doesn't address this. My point is that it works so why question it, much like the concept of a soul.

People are raised differently yes, and that does make them different, but there is more to it than simply how they are raised, and it can't all be attributed to genetics (or maybe it can, I can't say) but all people, experiences and beleifs aside, will react to different scenarios differently, people are not born equal in the real world, despite what primary school teachers want to tell naive students. Some people are naturally gentlre while others are naturaly malicious, their upbringing has little to do with this. How can you say beyond all certanty that there is not an element of you're mind responsible for these inherent differencees, and I stress again the soul has not been defined as supernatural or godly, in fact it is largely undefined except for it controls your morals to a degree. Why can there not be an element of your mind responsible for this? better yet how can there not be? I am anti-theist, I don't beleive in gods or the supernatural, yet I simply cannot dismiss the concept of a subconscious part of the mind controlling the morals of man, as the majority of people act on morlas with differing zeal, some cannot comprehend it at all, there is something other than genetic and social differences that partially accounts for this.

1) Did I ever assume children were blank slates or perfectly equal? Again, we're all different, we all have different perspectives (because we are all different), different capacities, and different genetics that - believe it or not - do have impact on our personalities.
2) I was a camp counselor and rotten kids tend to have non-involved, abusive, or otherwise unpleasant parents.
and 3) as a "anti-theist," where does this "soul" come from?

You're raising more questions (a ton) with the soul than you're solving (none).

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I kind of sensed the bias in the beginning of your thing but...

yes, yes I do think that I have a soul

why you ask? because animals have a brain, and while I do love my kitty so very much, I doesn't have emotions, sure you can single that down to relative Alpha A-99 on our biological tree, but things with brains have existed for along time

ohh just got me a example

Dolphins, smartest non-humans right? enjoy sex right? but have no emotions as far as I can see right? well the answers is yes to all

(and before this comes up, GOOOOOO JESUS!)

Dolphins have no emotions? I'm pretty sure most animals have emotions, dude.

Otherwise, why the hell would experimental psychologists even bother torturing chimps?

 

[neoman10]

I kind of sensed the bias in the beginning of your thing but...

yes, yes I do think that I have a soul

why you ask? because animals have a brain, and while I do love my kitty so very much, I doesn't have emotions, sure you can single that down to relative Alpha A-99 on our biological tree, but things with brains have existed for along time

ohh just got me a example

Dolphins, smartest non-humans right? enjoy sex right? but have no emotions as far as I can see right? well the answers is yes to all

(and before this comes up, GOOOOOO JESUS!)

Dolphins have no emotions? I'm pretty sure most animals have emotions, dude.

Otherwise, why the hell would experimental psychologists torture chimps?

but they aren't complex, they get happy, sad, scared and such but not much else

and to the second, to mess with they're inferior 2% of DNA MWAHAHAHA

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

but they aren't complex, they get happy, sad, scared and such but not much else

and to the second, to mess with they're inferior 2% of DNA MWAHAHAHA

Define emotion. Dogs get jealous when you show affection or praise to others. They like attention. They have wants, moods, and feelings. What do we have, besides language, that they lack? Nothing emotional. Emotion's a deeply rooted primal thing - and we adapted it for reasons that benefit our survival. Why wouldn't animals have it too?

I'm not saying "dogs is people." I'm saying, people are animals, and there's no evidence of a "soul" that sets us apart..

2nd: what the hell are you talking about with "inferior" DNA?

 

[neoman10]

but they aren't complex, they get happy, sad, scared and such but not much else

and to the second, to mess with they're inferior 2% of DNA MWAHAHAHA

Define emotion. Dogs get jealous when you show affection or praise to others. They like attention. They have wants, moods, and feelings. What do we have, besides language, that they lack?

I'm not saying "dogs is people." I'm saying, people are animals, and there's no evidence of a "soul" that sets us apart..

I don't believe dog have thumbs for one but I think that's besides the point, while I agree there is no evidence but.....ummmmmm ok you win for now but I got exams tomorrow and I'll think of something

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I don't believe dog have thumbs for one but I think that's besides the point, while I agree there is no evidence but.....ummmmmm ok you win for now but I got exams tomorrow and I'll think of something

Do I at least get a cookie?

Also, I added a little to the post you quoted.

 

[neoman10]

I don't believe dog have thumbs for one but I think that's besides the point, while I agree there is no evidence but.....ummmmmm ok you win for now but I got exams tomorrow and I'll think of something

Do I at least get a cookie?

Also, I added a little to the post you quoted.

yes you get 2 good cookies and a mushy one

but that 2% we have must do something, if it doesn't I will bow to Disney for showing that Animals can talk and articulate

 

[ThrobbingEgo]

I am certain that I don't have a soul or spiritual essence of any form, but this would not stop me from exploiting the concept.

My plan is to sell my soul to the Devil, when it comes to the day when I have to pay up, hand him my soul and go to Hell I would simply turn around and say 'I am sorry but I have no soul to give you, you should have read the small print, better luck next time Nick'.

Not smart. If there were a devil that'd appear before me, I'd probably reevaluate my understanding of the universe before I'd sell my "soul" to him. Because why would there be a devil if there were no souls for him to collect? He'd have nothing to gain by granting people's wishes - that wouldn't make sense.

I'd also see a psychologist, stat.

 

[Flunk]

If you can't see, feel, hear or taste something there is a fairly good chance it doesn't exist. I make it a point not to believe in anything without any proof of any kind so no, It's extremely unlikely that such a thing exists.

Don't misconstrue this as a statement that I think people might have souls, just that I think that erroquivically disproving something is very difficult if not totally impossible.