Starcraft 2: Will you pay full price for 1/3 of a game?

Recommended Videos

Endgame81

New member
Nov 28, 2009
9
0
0
SailorShale said:
Wings of Liberty is Starcraft 2. The other 2 are expansions. You will be able to play all 3 races for multiplayer and computer battles. They are just beefing up the other campaigns and making it as epic as possible. Would you rather have a half-assed version with a flimsy story? I don't see the problem unless they release all of them for 60$ each. Which they won't, I'm pretty they stated that.
This. Had they not used this aproach, they would have milked us with standard expansions, and like sheep we would have bought them no questions asked. But because they have the audacity to try to deliver the same experience by a slightly different method, folk are getting hysterical over it, even though in the end it wont make a difference to our wallets, or our gaming experience.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
s0denone said:
Alright, I'll just ignore the condescending "Don't watch Star Wars, what a rip!" tone here. You are obviously very passionate about Starcraft. Haha.

There is a difference, though, for instance with Mass Effect. Mass Effect is one game(and we've been told from the start that it's a trilogy) with one set of graphics.

Mass Effect 2 changed many, many, many, many things from the original, and was an entirely different game.

Starcraft: Wings of Liberty is different from Starcraft II: Zerg Version only in name. It's the same graphics. The same units(with probably somewhere between two and four added for each race, and one or two buildings) and the same buildings. While Blizzard have at this point had much feedback, they cannot change the fundamentals of the game, since it's basically the game, you know?

Also, look below.
Apologies if you felt I was being condescending; I used that example to illustrate that I find the argument at hand very silly. I understand that it's from a heartfelt, well-meaning place, but I just don't see how it holds up.

Obviously, there's no way to tell what exactly SC2Z will be like, since Blizzard hasn't even started making it yet. However, from the little we do know, it should actually be less like SC2T than you're expecting - they've talked before about how you can't just slap a creepy-crawly skin on it and call it a day, because the entire framework of the campaign is different. Jim Raynor walks around the Hyperion, gets missions from his crew members, talks with engineering and science about optional objectives to upgrade units. Kerrigan won't be doing any of that.

They've also mentioned that they've tossed the idea around of having SC2Z have "RPG elements," whatever that means - so clearly, the entire framework AROUND the single-player missions is going to be different. You'll have different units, etc, but you're right that the baseline SC2 gameplay probably won't change all that much. Then again, the baseline Mass Effect gameplay didn't change all that much, either. Many of the same fundamentals were still there, they were just tweaked (in many cases to make them not suck).

We can quibble over "oh, Game X changed MORE than Game Y, but Game Y didn't need as much changing as Game X in the first place" all we want, but the concept still remains the same. Hell, one could argue that Mass Effect is worse in a way, because the amount of people who play BioWare games for the story is probably more than the number of people who will be buying SC2 for the story and not the excellent multiplayer. And you won't get all the perks without playing prior games in the series.

But these aren't actual expansions. There are one single player campaign split into three pieces.*

Take Warcraft III, as you mention Blizzard and their expansions, and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.

In Warcraft III you have one single player campaign. In Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne you have another single player campaign.

Yes, Warcraft III spanned a lot of missions, and different races, but it was one campaign, just like Starcraft II and it's "expansions" are. Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne followed this beastmaster half-ogre whose name I simply cannot recal in this moment - it started with R.

That's an example of an expansion done right. You have one campaign in the original game. The campaign is closed. Over. Then the expansion provides another campaign.

That's the difference.

That's what I'm against.

Also @ John Funk.

If you want to compare it to something, I'll also compare it to something.

Starcraft II in 3 parts would have been the same as if Diablo II had three acts, and then splitting each of these into a separate game.**

You cannot compare movies to games. Stop doing that. We cannot compare apples to oranges.
*Again, you're making an awfully large assumption here. You have no idea what the plot will be like or how SC2T will end, or how SC2Z and SC2P will follow from it. WC3TFT clearly followed the plot from WC3, but WC3 had its own conclusion. I fully expect SC2T to do the same.

Many of your arguments rely on assumptions. You cannot say SC2's campaign won't be done right until it's out - all you're doing is arguing on speculation.

**Er, you mean like how Diablo II's final act came in an expansion? If you beat D2 when it first came out, yes you fought Diablo but there was still notably one brother left over. Now, just imagine that Diablo II had a second expansion and an Act VI (which would probably have required Tyrael not destroy the world stone but now I'm getting ahead of myself). This is the same thing.
 

Traun

New member
Jan 31, 2009
659
0
0
s0denone said:
big post of misinformation
Wings of Liberty will be centered around mercenary play (you buy tech and units).
Heart of the Swarm will be centered around RPG elements (as Kerrigan(your main character) evolves, so does the swarm).
Legacy of the Void will be diplomacy based (unite the tribes).

All three games will be different.
 

Soods

New member
Jan 6, 2010
608
0
0
I'm not paying full price for a third of a game. I'm paying the full price for the galaxy editor xD
 

WaffleCopters

New member
Dec 13, 2009
171
0
0
Cody211282 said:
I would like to know how calling someone who hasn't been able to finish 1/3rd of a game in 10 years lazy is ignorant, please fill me in here, us small people would love to know.
ILL tell you why its an ingnorant stateman, and here i go:
JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVENT FINISHED IT DOESNT MEAN THEY WERENT WORKING THEIR ASS OFF ON IT.
they are looking for programmers and developers in case you havent noticed, and have been for a few years now. so the ones they HAVE are split between Cataclysm, Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2.

and yes, they have finished 1/3rd of a game, they just havent finished the campaign. because in that way you are saying the terran campaign is gonna be ONLY terran vs Terran because they didnt model/script/sound the zerg or protoss. the zerg and protoss ARE THERE. AS are their sounds. the only thing that isnt, is everything directly zerg and protoss campaign exclusive.

Cody211282 said:
But your missing the fact that each DOW expansion brought something new to the table and changed how the game was played in some way so here is a list for you(I believe I did this for you once before but I'm willing to try again).
Yes, but the expansions will bring the protss and zerg into the game as playable campaigns. SAME AS IN DOW. and also, did DOW have an upgraded MAP EDITOR?! and who says an expansion is meant to bring something that changes the gameplay? an expansion is a dumb way of saying DLC in one way. and DLC is just new stuff. not necessarily game changing. but new.
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
0
0
Cody211282 said:
Ok we are going to do this piece by piece because it's easier to look at everything that way.

I would like to know how calling someone who hasn't been able to finish 1/3rd of a game in 10 years lazy is ignorant, please fill me in here, us small people would love to know.
Uh, if you're approaching this with the pre-existing condition "SC2 = 1/3 of a game," then I'm not going to even try to debate this with you since it's clear that you're not going to listen.

They have not been working on 1/3 of a game in 10 years. They have been working on a full game (multiplayer, engine, balance, all of that) for 10 years, and this includes a full campaign that happens to be part of an overarching story with two more planned installments. In order to make this the best experience they possibly can, they haven't started thinking about the next installments.

Once they are done completing their full game, they will start work on the next games in the series.

And please, if I'd said "They're already full at work on the Zerg and Protoss campaign" you would have just retorted "THEN THEY SHOULD ALL COME OUT TOGETHER." That's a no-win situation; you're determined to just find something to nitpick them on. The fact of the matter is, that they've devoted so much time to just the "first third of the game" (sarcastic fingerquotes please) really torpedoes the idea that they're just splitting it up.

And unlike Starcraft 2, the Mass Effect games are self containing, you can jump in at any point, they all have a begging middle and end just like any good book in a series.
Wow, you've played the SC2 campaign already? No spoilers, please, but I'm glad to know you know exactly how it'll go ;D

In Mass Effect, you won't get the full experience if you haven't played the previous games because your saved Shepard carries over. Food for thought.

But your missing the fact that each DOW expansion brought something new to the table and changed how the game was played in some way so here is a list for you(I believe I did this for you once before but I'm willing to try again).

Dawn of War(DOW)-Single linear camping with only Space Marines(SM), Multiplayer only had SM, Ork, Eldar, and Chaos Space Marines(CSM)

DOW:Winter Assult-Added Imperial Guard(IG) as a playable race, also had 2 different campaigns that branched into 4 different endings(1 for each race), also new unites were added for multiplayer

DOW:Dark Crusade- Added Tau and Necrons to the game, changed from a linear campaign to a risk type board that let you pick were to fight and what perks to go after, and your buildings would be saved to each map, also added new units.

DOW:Soulstorm-Added Sisters Of Battle and upped how big the risk type board was, also added new units.


So now I think Blizzard is doing way less then Relic did.
That wasn't my point (and you're also assuming that the SC2 campaigns won't change anything, which they've already said won't be the case). I was refuting his claim that expansions mean that you won't be able to play with other people. Can I play Winter Assault with you if I only have Dark Crusade? Don't think so.

My point was that if you wanted to blast Blizzard over having to buy multiplayer expansions to play everyone, blast every other RTS dev on the market.
 

s0denone

Elite Member
Apr 25, 2008
1,196
0
41
Xzi said:
s0denone said:
But these aren't actual expansions. There are one single player campaign split into three pieces.

Take Warcraft III, as you mention Blizzard and their expansions, and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.

In Warcraft III you have one single player campaign. In Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne you have another single player campaign.

Yes, Warcraft III spanned a lot of missions, and different races, but it was one campaign, just like Starcraft II and it's "expansions" are. Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne followed this beastmaster half-ogre whose name I simply cannot recal in this moment - it started with R.

That's an example of an expansion done right. You have one campaign in the original game. The campaign is closed. Over. Then the expansion provides another campaign.

That's the difference.

That's what I'm against.
Wrong. They're being developed in very different ways. The entire Warcraft 3 campaign was about 25+ hours long, and the TFT campaigns were about 20+ hours long. So about 45 total hours of gameplay between WC3 ($60) and TFT ($40). I'll go ahead and round that up to 50 hours so as to say that each hour of gameplay in WC3 + TFT cost you $2.

Now, in Starcraft 2, each individual race's campaign will be as long as all of the campaigns in WC3 put together. They are each being developed separately. 20+ hours. So, for $140 (60 + 40 + 40), you're getting 60+ hours of single-player gameplay alone. That's approximately $2.33 for each hour of gameplay. A little more than the cost of WC3, but when taking inflation and market trends into account, it's still VERY reasonable.

And that is of course assuming that I know the length of each SC2 campaign. They very well may be 30 hours each.
I'm sorry, did you read my post? Sorry for being an asshole here, buy you're bringing it on yourself.

Where, in the post you're responding to, have I been debating the length or price of either product? Oh I haven't. I see. Why are you ignoring the intended point of my post then, to continue slapping the "omg starcwaft to is not expensiv wen compare to othr gams"-horse?

Please. Do. Read. What. You. Reply. To.

Do you need me to clarify something? I will, gladly :----------) I bolded the post in question, so there is no doubt for you.

John Funk said:
Apologies if you felt I was being condescending; I used that example to illustrate that I find the argument at hand very silly. I understand that it's from a heartfelt, well-meaning place, but I just don't see how it holds up.

Obviously, there's no way to tell what exactly SC2Z will be like, since Blizzard hasn't even started making it yet. However, from the little we do know, it should actually be less like SC2T than you're expecting - they've talked before about how you can't just slap a creepy-crawly skin on it and call it a day, because the entire framework of the campaign is different. Jim Raynor walks around the Hyperion, gets missions from his crew members, talks with engineering and science about optional objectives to upgrade units. Kerrigan won't be doing any of that.

They've also mentioned that they've tossed the idea around of having SC2Z have "RPG elements," whatever that means - so clearly, the entire framework AROUND the single-player missions is going to be different. You'll have different units, etc, but you're right that the baseline SC2 gameplay probably won't change all that much. Then again, the baseline Mass Effect gameplay didn't change all that much, either. Many of the same fundamentals were still there, they were just tweaked (in many cases to make them not suck).

We can quibble over "oh, Game X changed MORE than Game Y, but Game Y didn't need as much changing as Game X in the first place" all we want, but the concept still remains the same. Hell, one could argue that Mass Effect is worse in a way, because the amount of people who play BioWare games for the story is probably more than the number of people who will be buying SC2 for the story and not the excellent multiplayer. And you won't get all the perks without playing prior games in the series.

Xzi said:
But these aren't actual expansions. There are one single player campaign split into three pieces.*

Take Warcraft III, as you mention Blizzard and their expansions, and Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne.

In Warcraft III you have one single player campaign. In Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne you have another single player campaign.

Yes, Warcraft III spanned a lot of missions, and different races, but it was one campaign, just like Starcraft II and it's "expansions" are. Warcraft III: The Frozen Throne followed this beastmaster half-ogre whose name I simply cannot recal in this moment - it started with R.

That's an example of an expansion done right. You have one campaign in the original game. The campaign is closed. Over. Then the expansion provides another campaign.

That's the difference.

That's what I'm against.

Also @ John Funk.

If you want to compare it to something, I'll also compare it to something.

Starcraft II in 3 parts would have been the same as if Diablo II had three acts, and then splitting each of these into a separate game.**

You cannot compare movies to games. Stop doing that. We cannot compare apples to oranges.
*Again, you're making an awfully large assumption here. You have no idea what the plot will be like or how SC2T will end, or how SC2Z and SC2P will follow from it. WC3TFT clearly followed the plot from WC3, but WC3 had its own conclusion. I fully expect SC2T to do the same.

Many of your arguments rely on assumptions. You cannot say SC2's campaign won't be done right until it's out - all you're doing is arguing on speculation.

**Er, you mean like how Diablo II's final act came in an expansion? If you beat D2 when it first came out, yes you fought Diablo but there was still notably one brother left over. Now, just imagine that Diablo II had a second expansion and an Act VI (which would probably have required Tyrael not destroy the world stone but now I'm getting ahead of myself). This is the same thing.
You're telling me I'm arguing over assumption, and yes, you're right. But so are you. Don't tell me I can't be cautiously(or not so cautiously) pessimistic about a single-player campaign being told over three different games, when you can be cautiously(or not so cautiously) optimistic.

And about Diablo II - no. I wasn't referencing Lord of Destruction... But yes, that did suck. I did beat the game with a necromancer, and was thoroughly disappointed that there was no closure. This is one of several reasons that I am very skeptical of this whole process, and why I expect less from Blizzard, rather than more.

Traun said:
s0denone said:
big post of misinformation
Wings of Liberty will be centered around mercenary play (you buy tech and units).
Heart of the Swarm will be centered around RPG elements (as Kerrigan(your main character) evolves, so does the swarm).
Legacy of the Void will be diplomacy based (unite the tribes).

All three games will be different.
I was not aware of that. I still have doubt in this regard, however, as explained right above.

EDIT: In the words of Xanadu84: I would like some sort of substantiation :)
 

jpoon

New member
Mar 26, 2009
1,995
0
0
I might try out the first one that comes out at least. I don't really expect it to be that great of a game though, they'll have to pull off something pretty amazing for me to buy the whole bag.
 

Ayay

New member
Dec 6, 2009
121
0
0
May this game get out soon , I for one thought it was out a year or so ago . The years of hype around this game is getting painfull. Liked the first game . but i'am not touching SC2 with a ten foot pole .
 

martin's a madman

New member
Aug 20, 2008
2,319
0
0
They aren't so much "Parts" as they are full story sequels. You're paying for the campaign, do I think the campaign will be worth it? Well, let's just wait and see how good Wings of Liberty's is.
 

ProfessorLayton

Elite Member
Nov 6, 2008
7,452
0
41
That's like saying that you're not going to buy Gears of War because there's a Gears of War 2 and they're making a Gears of War 3 and calling them greedy for wanting you to pay for all of them...
 

Cody211282

New member
Apr 25, 2009
2,892
0
0
WaffleCopters said:
Cody211282 said:
I would like to know how calling someone who hasn't been able to finish 1/3rd of a game in 10 years lazy is ignorant, please fill me in here, us small people would love to know.
ILL tell you why its an ingnorant stateman, and here i go:
JUST BECAUSE THEY HAVENT FINISHED IT DOESNT MEAN THEY WERENT WORKING THEIR ASS OFF ON IT.
they are looking for programmers and developers in case you havent noticed, and have been for a few years now. so the ones they HAVE are split between Cataclysm, Diablo 3 and Starcraft 2.
Ok time to do it one piece at a time again.

Well using the same example funk used I will go with BioWear, they worked on Mass Effect2 Dragon Age, and Star Wars:TOR, as well as DLC, and what do you know Dragon age Mass Effect 2 and the DLC is out. And they did it in less time as well, so with your logic we should only be getting the first 1/3rd of Mass Effect 2, have no idea when Dragon Age will be coming out, and the Star Wars MMO would be out have an expansion planned by now, oh and they would all be $60.

WaffleCopters said:
and yes, they have finished 1/3rd of a game, they just havent finished the campaign. because in that way you are saying the terran campaign is gonna be ONLY terran vs Terran because they didnt model/script/sound the zerg or protoss. the zerg and protoss ARE THERE. AS are their sounds. the only thing that isnt, is everything directly zerg and protoss campaign exclusive.
Well I hate to say it but the campaign is the game, if you don't have a campaign you don't really have a full game, you have a demo of what the game could be(unless you make it only for multiplayer like TF2 or Sins of a Solar Empire).

WaffleCopters said:
Cody211282 said:
But your missing the fact that each DOW expansion brought something new to the table and changed how the game was played in some way so here is a list for you(I believe I did this for you once before but I'm willing to try again).
Yes, but the expansions will bring the protss and zerg into the game as playable campaigns. SAME AS IN DOW. and also, did DOW have an upgraded MAP EDITOR?! and who says an expansion is meant to bring something that changes the gameplay? an expansion is a dumb way of saying DLC in one way. and DLC is just new stuff. not necessarily game changing. but new.
But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.
 

Eclectic Dreck

New member
Sep 3, 2008
6,662
0
0
SailorShale said:
Wings of Liberty is Starcraft 2. The other 2 are expansions. You will be able to play all 3 races for multiplayer and computer battles. They are just beefing up the other campaigns and making it as epic as possible. Would you rather have a half-assed version with a flimsy story? I don't see the problem unless they release all of them for 60$ each. Which they won't, I'm pretty they stated that.
I honestly rarely actually complete the campaigns in an RTS game. So long as the "expansions" are not required in order to continue to play online, I don't care how much they cost. Some games have managed to balance the two. For example, in Dawn of War 2, the expansion multiplayer content was delivered to people who only had the original game. You could play as normal online but if you wanted the additional single player content you had to pony up the cash.

The original Dawn of War was a bit trickier. One did not actually NEED the expansions to play online but without them they would be restricted in their choice of race. At least, that held true for Dark Crusade.
 

s0denone

Elite Member
Apr 25, 2008
1,196
0
41
Xzi said:
s0denone said:
Royal. Fucking. Pwnage.
Did you read what I wrote? Obviously not. Here, I'll bold it for you:

It is NOT one single campaign split into three chapters. It is being developed in a different way from Warcraft 3. Warcraft 3's campaign was an example of one split into three chapters. Starcraft 2's campaign is three very separate stories being developed at three different times as three very separate campaigns.
Okay, you need to explain something to me, then.

How does
Wrong. They're being developed in very different ways. The entire Warcraft 3 campaign was about 25+ hours long, and the TFT campaigns were about 20+ hours long. So about 45 total hours of gameplay between WC3 ($60) and TFT ($40). I'll go ahead and round that up to 50 hours so as to say that each hour of gameplay in WC3 + TFT cost you $2.

Now, in Starcraft 2, each individual race's campaign will be as long as all of the campaigns in WC3 put together. They are each being developed separately. 20+ hours. So, for $140 (60 + 40 + 40), you're getting 60+ hours of single-player gameplay alone. That's approximately $2.33 for each hour of gameplay. A little more than the cost of WC3, but when taking inflation and market trends into account, it's still VERY reasonable.

And that is of course assuming that I know the length of each SC2 campaign. They very well may be 30 hours each.
Equalise

It is NOT one single campaign split into three chapters. It is being developed in a different way from Warcraft 3. Warcraft 3's campaign was an example of one split into three chapters. Starcraft 2's campaign is three very separate stories being developed at three different times as three very separate campaigns.
?

Hmm?

It's not at all what you wrote. I refuse to argue with someone fired up to a point in which they don't even know what they are and are not writing.
 

Plurralbles

New member
Jan 12, 2010
4,611
0
0
OP, you need to hold your ear to the asphalt of gaming a little bit more cuz' you obviously don't have a clue about the content being offered.

If your'e going to complain, complain that you have to pay more when you buy the game in order to play it online more than a year frrom purchase.
 

Traun

New member
Jan 31, 2009
659
0
0
Cody211282 said:
But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.
Um...no?

First - DoW expansions added one new unit per race and messed up the tech tree, that wasn't that much of a rehash. Starcraft 2 will add at least 2 units.

Second - While the ingame models for the units are completed the high-poly models for the campaign (you know, like 1 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/108/1085596/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-20100422021847355_640w.jpg], 2 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/108/1085596/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-20100422021907401_640w.jpg], 3 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/108/1085596/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-20100422021958508_640w.jpg],4 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/105/1056577/starcraft-ii-terrans-wings-of-liberty-20091218015537651_640w.jpg],5 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/104/1047991/starcraft-ii-terrans-wings-of-liberty-20091119035219181_640w.jpg] (those are in-game scenes) are not, CGI scene are also incomplete and the missions themselve (Blizzard has already announce that every mission will have at least one unique mechanic in it) haven't been scripted.

Not to mention that the units in SP =/= units in MP. In single player Firebats, Medics, Vaulters and Goliaths will be available.

So yeah, Zerg and Protoss are ready for MP, that doesn't mean that they are ready for SP. Blizzard are really dedicated to the campaign this time.