Starcraft 2: Will you pay full price for 1/3 of a game?

[Nifarious]

Okay, SC2 is a game that's easy to not 'get'. Think of it more like chess rather than just another game that you mess around on till you finish it or get something else. SC1 lasted for 12 years and in my opinion is only really being replaced because of the improved mechanics rather than graphics or new units, etc. The single player should be worth playing, but that's not what keeps the game going on and on. Really, the expansions will be necessary not because of their single player, but because of the new units and features that they'll add to the game. Sure, you have the option to get the main game and wait for the expansions to become more affordable, but ultimately, playing without them will be like playing SC1 w/o Broodwar...bizarre.

Really, there's no reason to get pissy about the expansions or the current lack of LAN when those things are still to come. It's absolutely clear that Blizzard is and will continue to be putting a lot of work into this. If you 'get' the game, then there's no reason not to get it.
Now, some of you will cringe that you're asked to 'get' a game that you pay for and expect to automatically enjoy, but the effort required to psychologically adapt to RTS gameplay is part of the fun.

 

[John Funk]

\

Ok time to do it one piece at a time again.

Well using the same example funk used I will go with BioWear, they worked on Mass Effect2 Dragon Age, and Star Wars:TOR, as well as DLC, and what do you know Dragon age Mass Effect 2 and the DLC is out. And they did it in less time as well, so with your logic we should only be getting the first 1/3rd of Mass Effect 2, have no idea when Dragon Age will be coming out, and the Star Wars MMO would be out have an expansion planned by now, oh and they would all be $60.[/blockquote]

This is because different developers have different teams working on different projects. Blizzard has five different projects by five different teams right now: ongoing WoW content, SC2, D3, next-gen MMOG, and an unannounced fifth project.

Blizzard has ALWAYS been glacially slow because they're notorious perfectionists. Diablo III had its development scrapped two or three times because they weren't happy with how it was going and didn't feel it was worth showing off yet.

Well I hate to say it but the campaign is the game, if you don't have a campaign you don't really have a full game, you have a demo of what the game could be(unless you make it only for multiplayer like TF2 or Sins of a Solar Empire).

But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.

SC2 might as well be multiplayer only for as long as the SC1 multiplayer has lasted. The campaign is just a bonus.

They already have the Protoss and Zerg *units*. They do not have scripts written for their campaigns. They do not have custom units (that won't be in the multiplayer). They do not have the special-trigger maps, like the one where you use a laser to cut a hole in a protoss temple. They do not have the cutscenes animated. They do not have the voice acting recorded. They do not have the additional elements (Zerg RPG elements, Protoss diplomacy) that will be core to the campaigns finalized.

There is much more that goes into developing a campaign that you have no concept of. It's actually kind of jarring.

 

[tautologico]

But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.

Ok, I don't know what Blizzard did to you, if it killed your dog or something, but your hate for it is showing in these posts. You're just trying to pick things to complain about. Also you haven't played neither the 1st game nor the expansions to be saying what they will or won't do.

OT: I think the really questionable thing about SC2 is the lack of LAN play. It doesn't affect me much, but I think this was unnecessary.

If, as promised, the three campaigns are each as long as the original Starcraft single-player game, I really don't see reason for much complaint. And yes, I'll be buying it because I love Stacraft and have played it do death. If for any reason Wings of Liberty sucks I won't buy the expansions, but if it's good I'll buy them all at launch.

 

[Cody211282]

Ok we are going to do this piece by piece because it's easier to look at everything that way.

I would like to know how calling someone who hasn't been able to finish 1/3rd of a game in 10 years lazy is ignorant, please fill me in here, us small people would love to know.

Uh, if you're approaching this with the pre-existing condition "SC2 = 1/3 of a game," then I'm not going to even try to debate this with you since it's clear that you're not going to listen.

I'm listening, but I haven't heard anything but "because blizzard said it wasn't 1/3rd of a game", I'm looking at the game as someone who was interested when I came out, wanted it, then looked at how they were going to make it and got a tad bit pissed that Blizzard thinks of their fanbase as walking rolls of money. So please, give me a reason to think this game is worth $140 and I will listen, but you haven't said anything that isn't "your wrong because they said so"

They have not been working on 1/3 of a game in 10 years. They have been working on a full game (multiplayer, engine, balance, all of that) for 10 years, and this includes a full campaign that happens to be part of an overarching story with two more planned installments. In order to make this the best experience they possibly can, they haven't started thinking about the next installments.

Once they are done completing their full game, they will start work on the next games in the series.

So they have spent 10 years on a 20 hour game them so I take it the expansion will be coming out in 2020 and 2030? this seems like the worst business model ever.

And please, if I'd said "They're already full at work on the Zerg and Protoss campaign" you would have just retorted "THEN THEY SHOULD ALL COME OUT TOGETHER." That's a no-win situation; you're determined to just find something to nitpick them on. The fact of the matter is, that they've devoted so much time to just the "first third of the game" (sarcastic fingerquotes please) really torpedoes the idea that they're just splitting it up.

Well since my biggest problem is that they aren't releasing the game as the full product then I think the "THEN THEY SHOULD ALL COME OUT TOGETHER" my main problem. What I think they are doing, is milking the fan base for all the money they think they can get out of them, and the fan base is willing to empty their pockets and pay them without thinking about because well "OMG ITZ BLIZZARD AND THEY MAKE GAMES THAT POWN" Not questioning why the company want's to release the thing a piece at a time is a bad idea because then other devs think they can get away with it, next thing you know the entire industry is busy releasing the games in 3 parts for $60 each.

And unlike Starcraft 2, the Mass Effect games are self containing, you can jump in at any point, they all have a begging middle and end just like any good book in a series.

Wow, you've played the SC2 campaign already? No spoilers, please, but I'm glad to know you know exactly how it'll go ;D

Your missing my point here, this game isn't able to stand on it's own, you need to expansions for to figure out whats going on, they are selling the beginning middle then end, at least that's what I have been hearing/read about if I'm wrong then please correct me, as I said before I want a reason to buy this game, but so far all I have seen is a greedy company and fans that will follow them blindly.

In Mass Effect, you won't get the full experience if you haven't played the previous games because your saved Shepard carries over. Food for thought.

Yea to bad they didn't add in a cannon Shepard into ME2 and fill you into the story and what happened in the codex , oh wait yes they did. But unless something has changed from February you wouldn't know because it was to long for you to play, I'm not saying that it's a bad thing, just that you don't know what they did in the game if you didn't play it. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/view-from-the-road/7106-Why-Im-Not-Playing-Mass-Effect-2

But your missing the fact that each DOW expansion brought something new to the table and changed how the game was played in some way so here is a list for you(I believe I did this for you once before but I'm willing to try again).

Dawn of War(DOW)-Single linear camping with only Space Marines(SM), Multiplayer only had SM, Ork, Eldar, and Chaos Space Marines(CSM)

DOW:Winter Assult-Added Imperial Guard(IG) as a playable race, also had 2 different campaigns that branched into 4 different endings(1 for each race), also new unites were added for multiplayer

DOWark Crusade- Added Tau and Necrons to the game, changed from a linear campaign to a risk type board that let you pick were to fight and what perks to go after, and your buildings would be saved to each map, also added new units.

DOW:Soulstorm-Added Sisters Of Battle and upped how big the risk type board was, also added new units.


So now I think Blizzard is doing way less then Relic did.

That wasn't my point (and you're also assuming that the SC2 campaigns won't change anything, which they've already said won't be the case). I was refuting his claim that expansions mean that you won't be able to play with other people. Can I play Winter Assault with you if I only have Dark Crusade? Don't think so.

My point was that if you wanted to blast Blizzard over having to buy multiplayer expansions to play everyone, blast every other RTS dev on the market.

Ok lets say you have winter assault, you can still play against other people with dark crusade, you just get stuck only using what was in winter assault. So you get stuck with SM, IG, Ork, Eldar, and CSM. The guy with Dark Crusade gets everything else. So I think that you might need to look at the game first before saying how it works.

 

[Cody211282]

But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.

Ok, I don't know what Blizzard did to you, if it killed your dog or something, but your hate for it is showing in these posts. You're just trying to pick things to complain about. Also you haven't played neither the 1st game nor the expansions to be saying what they will or won't do.

No I really liked blizzard up until this point, I liked SC and WC as well, my problem is with how they are trying to sell the game. So I think I can complain about that since I don't need to play the game to know how it works.

 

[Deadman Walkin]

Buying every single one. Seriously, Blizzard makes the best games I have ever played, and the single campaign for each race is supposed to have as many campaign missions as Starcraft I (for all 3 races.) It means you are getting less campaigns, but a HUGE single campaign.

 

[Cody211282]

\

Ok time to do it one piece at a time again.

Well using the same example funk used I will go with BioWear, they worked on Mass Effect2 Dragon Age, and Star Wars:TOR, as well as DLC, and what do you know Dragon age Mass Effect 2 and the DLC is out. And they did it in less time as well, so with your logic we should only be getting the first 1/3rd of Mass Effect 2, have no idea when Dragon Age will be coming out, and the Star Wars MMO would be out have an expansion planned by now, oh and they would all be $60.[/blockquote]

This is because different developers have different teams working on different projects. Blizzard has five different projects by five different teams right now: ongoing WoW content, SC2, D3, next-gen MMOG, and an unannounced fifth project.

Blizzard has ALWAYS been glacially slow because they're notorious perfectionists. Diablo III had its development scrapped two or three times because they weren't happy with how it was going and didn't feel it was worth showing off yet.

Well I hate to say it but the campaign is the game, if you don't have a campaign you don't really have a full game, you have a demo of what the game could be(unless you make it only for multiplayer like TF2 or Sins of a Solar Empire).

But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.

SC2 might as well be multiplayer only for as long as the SC1 multiplayer has lasted. The campaign is just a bonus.

They already have the Protoss and Zerg *units*. They do not have scripts written for their campaigns. They do not have custom units (that won't be in the multiplayer). They do not have the special-trigger maps, like the one where you use a laser to cut a hole in a protoss temple. They do not have the cutscenes animated. They do not have the voice acting recorded. They do not have the additional elements (Zerg RPG elements, Protoss diplomacy) that will be core to the campaigns finalized.

There is much more that goes into developing a campaign that you have no concept of. It's actually kind of jarring.

See for me the only reason to pick up the game is the campaign(what can i say I'm a sucker for the lore), and I really don't play RTSs on line at all, so the multiplayer thing is rather useless to me.

As for the rest of it, Thank You, i didn't know most of that(though I will point out that in 10 years they should have done it by now). Also why would I know how they are developing a game, I don't work for blizzard. My biggest problem is with how they are selling it, I want to play it, I want to pay for it to, I just don't want to pay $140 for something I think is only worth $50.

 

[Cody211282]

But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.

Um...no?

First - DoW expansions added one new unit per race and messed up the tech tree, that wasn't that much of a rehash. Starcraft 2 will add at least 2 units.

Second - While the ingame models for the units are completed the high-poly models for the campaign (you know, like 1 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/108/1085596/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-20100422021847355_640w.jpg], 2 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/108/1085596/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-20100422021907401_640w.jpg], 3 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/108/1085596/starcraft-ii-wings-of-liberty-20100422021958508_640w.jpg],4 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/105/1056577/starcraft-ii-terrans-wings-of-liberty-20091218015537651_640w.jpg],5 [http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/104/1047991/starcraft-ii-terrans-wings-of-liberty-20091119035219181_640w.jpg] (those are in-game scenes) are not, CGI scene are also incomplete and the missions themselve (Blizzard has already announce that every mission will have at least one unique mechanic in it) haven't been scripted.

Not to mention that the units in SP =/= units in MP. In single player Firebats, Medics, Vaulters and Goliaths will be available.

So yeah, Zerg and Protoss are ready for MP, that doesn't mean that they are ready for SP. Blizzard are really dedicated to the campaign this time.

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

But they already made the Protoss and Zerg, you can play them in multiplayer, keeping them out of single player is ether lazy or trying to use the game to milk money out of fanboys.

And as I said, the DOW expansions actually added in things that wasn't in the games before it, and changed how the game was played, SC2 wont be doing that.

Oy, wrong again. Each expansion will be adding new units for all three races in multiplayer, thus changing strategy quite a bit. Each expansion will have a campaign for one race which lasts 20+ hours and deeply delves into the story. We aren't talking about just adding an intro for each mission here. There's voice-acting, cinematics, different mission parameters, everything to be done. Taking a year or so to carefully develop each race's unique campaign certainly isn't lazy.

These are true expansions with TONS of content, like Blizzard has always had. They aren't shitty DLC.

Ok what I'm calling lazy is the 10 years it has taken up to now, hell Duke Nukem only got that long. as for the rest, see above.

 

[tautologico]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

If the 1st game + expansions have as much single-player content as three games, why should it be $50 at most?

(Not saying they will have as much content as 3 games, but that's what blizzard is saying, and for now I believe them)

 

[Cody211282]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

If the 1st game + expansions have as much single-player content as three games, why should it be $50 at most?

(Not saying they will have as much content as 3 games, but that's what blizzard is saying, and for now I believe them)

Well unless each game is going to be about 40+ hours and have great replay value I don't think it's right(now I'm not saying every game has to be like this, but if they are splitting it up like this it should be) DOW took me 50 hours to beat on normal, and that was only $50, and I have heard from people it will only be 20 hours, so by that logic DOW2 should have been at least 1 game and a expansion. As I said if they end up being about 40 hours each I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 20, come on at that point if you have more contend planned then add it in.

 

[Traun]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

Well lenght-wise the price does make sense. I mean the original was 30 missions and so is SC2.

Now it doesn't matter if you get 10 Terran, 10 Zerg, 10 Protoss missions. Look at the original Dawn of War, it had one race, but it was worth it. Look at Homeworld, it had one story arc with reskinned units, but it was worth it. The question is - are there 30 GOOD mission or 30 #@$^ missions? In the end as a customer you will decide for yourself.

Also I forgot to mention it but Wings of Liberty will include a mini-campaign for the Protoss.

 

[ragestreet]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

If the 1st game + expansions have as much single-player content as three games, why should it be $50 at most?

(Not saying they will have as much content as 3 games, but that's what blizzard is saying, and for now I believe them)

Well unless each game is going to be about 40+ hours and have great replay value I don't think it's right(now I'm not saying every game has to be like this, but if they are splitting it up like this it should be) DOW took me 50 hours to beat on normal, and that was only $50, and I have heard from people it will only be 20 hours, so by that logic DOW2 should have been at least 1 game and a expansion. As I said if they end up being about 40 hours each I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 20, come on at that point if you have more contend planned then add it in.

Very off-topic but how was DOW 2? I haven't played it yet because my computer sucks at playing games made after the year 2000 and I'm thinking of buying a PC that can support it.

 

[Cody211282]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

Well lenght-wise the price does make sense. I mean the original was 30 missions and so is SC2.

Now it doesn't matter if you get 10 Terran, 10 Zerg, 10 Protoss missions. Look at the original Dawn of War, it had one race, but it was worth it. Look at Homeworld, it had one story arc with reskinned units, but it was worth it. The question is - are there 30 GOOD mission or 30 #@$^ missions? In the end as a customer you will decide for yourself.

Also I forgot to mention it but Wings of Liberty will include a mini-campaign for the Protoss.

I wouldn't have a problem with the price if it turns out that each part was like 30-40 hours(about the amount of time it took me to beat SC1). Also As stated before ai only want it for the single player, I like the lore and want to know what happens basically, and if I see that the length of the game is worth the price then I will admit I made a big deal out of nothing and apologize, but from what I have read(it only being 20 hours a pop) it doesn't seem worth it to me.

 

[Cody211282]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

If the 1st game + expansions have as much single-player content as three games, why should it be $50 at most?

(Not saying they will have as much content as 3 games, but that's what blizzard is saying, and for now I believe them)

Well unless each game is going to be about 40+ hours and have great replay value I don't think it's right(now I'm not saying every game has to be like this, but if they are splitting it up like this it should be) DOW took me 50 hours to beat on normal, and that was only $50, and I have heard from people it will only be 20 hours, so by that logic DOW2 should have been at least 1 game and a expansion. As I said if they end up being about 40 hours each I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 20, come on at that point if you have more contend planned then add it in.

Very off-topic but how was DOW 2? I haven't played it yet because my computer sucks at playing games made after the year 2000 and I'm thinking of buying a PC that can support it.

I liked it a lot, but it was very different from most RTS games, basically there is no base building and you only get to pick 4 squads for every mission, and each squad leader levels up and gets new gear. It's not for everyone and you might want to look on youtube to see the gameplay or play it at a friend house first to see if you might be interested in it.

 

[Tony2077]

well i plan to get it and its about the same size or maybe a bit bigger then the original starcraft. don't know how long each mission will take me that will have to wait till i get it

 

[Treblaine]

I never buy games at launch price, I wait 6 months for devaluation or sales.

 

[Tony2077]

Ok well thank you for telling me that, I had no idea how the damn game was going to play and now it makes more sense why it isn't done. My biggest problem as stated before is the cost of it, $140 for a game that should be $50 at most is asking a bit to much.

If the 1st game + expansions have as much single-player content as three games, why should it be $50 at most?

(Not saying they will have as much content as 3 games, but that's what blizzard is saying, and for now I believe them)

Well unless each game is going to be about 40+ hours and have great replay value I don't think it's right(now I'm not saying every game has to be like this, but if they are splitting it up like this it should be) DOW took me 50 hours to beat on normal, and that was only $50, and I have heard from people it will only be 20 hours, so by that logic DOW2 should have been at least 1 game and a expansion. As I said if they end up being about 40 hours each I wouldn't have a problem with that, but 20, come on at that point if you have more contend planned then add it in.

Very off-topic but how was DOW 2? I haven't played it yet because my computer sucks at playing games made after the year 2000 and I'm thinking of buying a PC that can support it.

there is a demo floating around you could try that