Subs vs Dubs

[Kimono dragon]

Not to flame here, but what gave you the impression that somebody writing subtitles is worse at translating than somebody writing a dub?

If your argument is literal translations versus translations of meaning then you should probably know that just as some dubs are horribly acted, some subs are horribly translated, I didn't criticise the acting in dubs, there is no reason to criticise the translation in subs.

My point about the translation being superior stands because there are different numbers of syllables in different languages, the translation you get in a dub is simply the translation from a good sub that has been warped to deal with the differing numbers of syllables.

I agree that often dubs can be done very poorly and that a good dub relies on strong understanding of both languages involved and the dialogue, but if it is done well then I can see no reason to choose a sub. Your gripe about syllables is indeed a challenge faced by the people doing the dub but if is done well it can be overcome in numerous clever little ways, having a character remain talking for a few seconds when they are not on screen for instance, it really isn?t that much of a problem.

If the dub is done well this hardly affects the piece. It really is the little things like someone saying something in a flirty way that with language barrier means this might not come across in a translation but by adapting and changing it we can understand it, though it may not be exactly the same the original writers intentions can be realised, what I am saying is a good dub is truer to the original than a translation and more effective for the audience.

 

[Kimono dragon]

It's not just Anime that I prefer in the original language.

I want to watch a movie or TV show in the language it's intended to be in. Wether this is Japanese, French, Italian or Swedish. To me, changing the voice-track is like changing the musical score; something gets lost.

There are a few cartoon shows and animated movies from my youth that were dubbed in my language that I love. But even as a 8-year-old I couldn't for the life of me understand how someone could sit through a dubbed live action movie. The voices are so disconnected from the characters one screen that it feels like you're watching a human puppetshow.

Music is a universal language, Japanese isn't - you don't need subtitles to enjoy music from another country.
All I am saying is that I think more is lost in subtitles than in dubs, at least in dubs an effort has been made to re-interpret things that you would normally have to understand the language to appreciate, sometimes this is done badly and distracts from the piece but I think as rule a good dub always beats a sub.
I did say at the beginning that I am only talking about animated shows as real life dubs are very different. Though I think your argument about wanting whatever language seems relevant given the context of the show/movie is interesting, though most animes seem to be set in more ?western? locations anyway.

 

[Kimono dragon]

The Japanese version is of much better quality.
Oh, wait, that makes you angry.
Oh wait, I don't care.

First of all I am sorry if I have upset you and second that is not what I said. If the Japanese version is of much higher 'quality' then I can understand liking that over an English version, what annoys (but not angers) me is the idea that people who don't understand Japanese feel they can say it is 'better' than the English version, the only people who have the right to say this are people who understand both languages.

You have to understand that when you watch a subbed program you are not getting the original, you are getting the original that you can?t understand with an English translation scrolling underneath, you aren?t in a position to judge how true the version you are seeing is to the original as you are seeing Japanese from the perspective of English.

 

[Nemu]

Subs.

But I'm with others in that I want to watch something as it was originally presented-- movies, anime, etc.

Music doesn't count, of course, but I do tend to listen to an equal share of my own language's music (English) and foreign.

 

[Bobbovski]

I'm used to subs... the only time I might prefer dubs is if an anime dub is extremly good (for example Cowboy bebop). Watching an live action movie with real actors dubbed would feel very strange to me... I like to learn new languages and watching movies in their original forms lets me come in contact with other languages. Even if I don't learn allot from it, I usually pick up a couple of phrases and words.

I also hate it when a movie is supposed to be set in a country where they don't speak english, but end up doing it anyway because of the dubbing. Of course this is even more annoying when the movie was produced in a "unrealistic" language from the start.

 

[GodofDisaster]

I prefer both, depending on the context of the show. Also their are some pretty good dubs, out there.

Examples, Code Geass, Bleach, death note was ok and Fooly Cooly, just as awesome in dub form as it was in sub.

 

[KhaineII]

I like dubs. I think the voice acting in Japanese anime's is appalling.

Why, you ask? 'Cause I started with the dubs first. Therefore, the voices stuck.

 

[digipinky75910]

Ah the classic sub v dubbed debate can o worms.

I like dubbed, I've seen some good ones, and dare I say it, in rare cases, imo, I've seen dub improvements over the original.

Not sure if it's fair to compare. For someone that Japanese is not their first language, they are two different experiences and performances. It's best to compare sub v dub on one title at a time. To get the full experience, I say try both.

 

[Nullphantom]

Don't mean to be rude, but doesn't a thread like this come out almost every week. Anyway, it depends on the context of the show. There are good dubs, and there are good subs. I personally watch subs more, since it feels like it fits, most of the time that is. Music language doesn't matter to me, sounds good either way, and I don't really pay attention to the lyrics anyway.

Good Dubs: DBZ, Inuyasha (ok), Tenchi Muyo, Bleach (ok, some voices are a little off)
Good Subs: Bleach, Naruto Shippuden, FLCL, Lucky Star, etc.

 

[CloakedOne]

It depends for me because both can be very poorly done.

I don't give two shits about most anime, so what I'm offering as far as explanations is based on my interest in foreign films:

1. When watching "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon", I've watched the original subtitles and the dubbed version. The dubbed version involved the characters speaking in voices that did not suit them at all. Beyond just the choices of the voice actors, the English language does not veil neatly over the facial expressions of Chinese speakers at all. I prefer the subtitled just because it's less ridiculous in this case. It just so happens that with CTHD that the subtitles are really well done and do not depreciate the meaning (this of course is not the case with all subtitles).

2. a great example of shitty dubbing is the show "Naruto." Embedded within this extremely horrific anime is dubbing that flows so poorly with scenes that are often involve more expressive facial movements than dubbers would like. They try anyway and it just seems stupid (especially when the word ends in an open mouth and it is dubbed with a closed mouth). Not to mention the writers' decision to add "Believe it" to Naruto's dialogue when the original character actually never says that at all. This is an example of adding shitty dubbing on top of an already shitty series.

3. Now, an example of when dubbing is a good idea: "Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children" is a movie in which the dubbing is superior to the subtitles. There are times when the dubbing is a little shaky over the character's dialogue, but in this case the dubbing actually clarifies the story more than the subtitles do. The subtitles provide a literal translation and there are many linguistic nuances that just don't convert to English. After it was dubbed, the story made so much more sense and made the movie all the more enjoyable.

For those who say "the Japanese one was better," they may mean that they didn't like the sloppy/comical attempts at dubbing that are presented in Americanized versions.

Of course, they may also just be brain-dead typical Otaku that think anything with the word "Japanese" on it makes it better and choosing to relinquish having to develop a sense of taste.

In short: just like everything else in the entertainment industry, dubbing and subbing are as good or bad as the creators/writers make them. Neither one is inherently superior, it just depends on the film to be translated and the decisions that the work requires.

 

[GundamSentinel]

Mostly subs, English dubs make me puke, Dutch dubs even more. There are some very rare good dubs, but mostly I avoid dubs like the plague.

 

[ryukage_sama]

I prefer Sub.

Specifically in the case of anime titles, I find that the casting for characters is much better. In too many English dubs I hear the same 10 actors over and over again (Johnny Yong Bosch I thinking of you). The overall cast of actors seems to repeat from show to show. With only a handful of companies dubbing anime in America, there don't seem to be enough actors to actually play the wide variety of characters in anime particularly well. Voice actors in Japan are far more plentiful and directors have a better selection from which to cast roles. It's not a matter of skill between American and Japanese actors, just casting.

And without the original staff directing the voice actors in America, the actors aren't just handling a translation, they are often working on a reinterpretation of the writer's original work. I am annoyed by statements from the American industry when actors and directors speak as if they worked on the original product and that they have some deeper understanding of what the original creators, writers, and directors intended when they have only seen the same product I've seen.

When something is dubbed, the original voice acting is destroyed from the viewer's perspective. I prefer watching shows with their original language track with subtitles because it allows me to experience both the original material and a translation, thus gradually bringing me closer to understanding the material without the necessity of a translation.

 

[Your once and future Fanboy]

Really god dubs are always welcome but 9 times out of 10, the subs will be better

 

[Raven's Nest]

What about V-Dubs?

[small]I prefer to see a dubbed anime; I've never had problems with them before. Though my anime viewing is really limited to just the guy who did Spirited Away.[/small]

The Studio Ghibli dubs are really well done and usually performed by hollywood actors. Overall you will get a far superior dub track with them than on your typical anime tv show.

I always try to listen to a programme in it's native language as that's just the way it was intended and it seems far more authentic than an american voice that can't seem to produce the same emotional effect.

However some animes suffer greatly from lazy subbing. I notice this in Elfen Lied (one of my favourites) there's an awful lot more being said than what you read in the subtitles. The dub track is no different.

Another problem with some dub tracks are the lack of variety in voices or accents. Especially Naruto, a lot of the characters are voiced by the same person in the dubbed track. Infact, specifically in Naruto the adult voices are over-exaggerated and far too child-like. I shudder when I hear Gamabunta speak in english.

 

[cathou]

always dubs. i want to watch something not read a book...

beside since i'm french, i'm used to watch every foreing tv show and movie dubbed. And frankly our actors are pretty good at it. each actor always have the same dub voice, so you dont have a different voice in every movie, the acting is good, because we have actors specialised in voice dubbing. we also have quality writers that give a good translation, sometimes adapting it when the cultural references are not clear here.

 

[crono738]

Depends on the dub, really. For example, Code Geass's English dub was surprisingly good while Naruto's dub was mind-numbingly bad.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Music is a universal language, Japanese isn't - you don't need subtitles to enjoy music from another country.

That's not what I mean.

If you take a movie or TV show with a defining soundtrack, like Back To the Future, and change the score, you loose something. You can still watch and even enjoy the movie, but the experience is altered and sometimes even lessend. For me this also aplies to voice acting. If it's a kids cartoon, sure. Since kids have a hard time with fast reading.

The reason I can speak english very well is because (apart from a few kids cartoons from Japan that were dubbed) I watched American cartoons with subtitles. Then again, my country is very eager on subtitles unlike the rest of Europe.

 

[Kif]

I don't really watch anime, but on the many other films I watch (a lot of which don't even have the option of dubs) I will always choose subs.