Superman Renounces U.S. Citizenship

[DudeistBelieve]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

again, I'm barely familiar with Marvel so aside from a few things I've seen in the cartoons I know very little of Captain America's mythos.

But on the topic of Superman,

Superman just saves the world, sure but he could just as easily enslave it and take over. Who could really stop him if he lost his moral compass? Lex Luthor? Doubtful. Batman? A small chance, depending how long Superman lets him live.

The fact that he has this incredible power and chooses it to do good instead of serving his own needs, especially when he has nothing tying him to our world, let alone America I think makes a pretty powerful statement.

 

[Saelune]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

again, I'm barely familiar with Marvel so aside from a few things I've seen in the cartoons I know very little of Captain America's mythos.

But on the topic of Superman,

Superman just saves the world, sure but he could just as easily enslave it and take over. Who could really stop him if he lost his moral compass? Lex Luthor? Doubtful. Batman? A small chance, depending how long Superman lets him live.

The fact that he has this incredible power and chooses it to do good instead of serving his own needs, especially when he has nothing tying him to our world, let alone America I think makes a pretty powerful statement.

Ok? Kinda irrelevant. If Superman went bad, someone, likely Batman as the main, would beat him (likely with casualties to some unimportant guys and one or two big ones)
In comic books, there is always a way to beat the bad guy. Superman not destroying/enslacing the world just says he is not evil.

 

[Negatempest]

I will make this short and very sweet.

DC Comics and Marvel Comics are both "veterans" in political affairs. These giants in comic books have usually portrayed comic books in a political view in one way or another. Do I need to bring in the WWII images? For heroes who never "killed", they did it quite often and brutally in the past.

 

[Autofaux]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Remember that scale is also important. With Superman being superpowered, he is required to fight enemies of equal or greater strength. Captain America being similar in strength, agility and endurance to Batman, and also being the one of the heroes of World War II, means he fights on a more varied scale. The shield he has also means he is able to fight enemies of greater strength than him.
So when Superman saves the world, its because other heroes are doing work he doesn't do, or could do easily. It the problem you have when writing for a hero who has shown to tear through walls of nine inch thick steel.

 

[Autofaux]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

again, I'm barely familiar with Marvel so aside from a few things I've seen in the cartoons I know very little of Captain America's mythos.

But on the topic of Superman,

Superman just saves the world, sure but he could just as easily enslave it and take over. Who could really stop him if he lost his moral compass? Lex Luthor? Doubtful. Batman? A small chance, depending how long Superman lets him live.

The fact that he has this incredible power and chooses it to do good instead of serving his own needs, especially when he has nothing tying him to our world, let alone America I think makes a pretty powerful statement.

Ok? Kinda irrelevant. If Superman went bad, someone, likely Batman as the main, would beat him (likely with casualties to some unimportant guys and one or two big ones)
In comic books, there is always a way to beat the bad guy. Superman not destroying/enslacing the world just says he is not evil.

There are already "bad" Supermen. Cyborg Superman and Superman-Prime. It means that the main Superman of Earth-0 doesn't have to have one of those awkward "I went bad but now I'm good/dead" storylines.

 

[Saelune]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Remember that scale is also important. With Superman being superpowered, he is required to fight enemies of equal or greater strength. Captain America being similar in strength, agility and endurance to Batman, and also being the one of the heroes of World War II, means he fights on a more varied scale. The shield he has also means he is able to fight enemies of greater strength than him.
So when Superman saves the world, its because other heroes are doing work he doesn't do, or could do easily. It the problem you have when writing for a hero who has shown to tear through walls of nine inch thick steel.

Well thats where Superman generally suffers among people...he is too good he is boring. Also, Captain America actually deals with alot of big stuff, but probably his greatest "power" is his ability to lead. So while he cannot do it alone, he usually can get whats needs done done with the right help.

 

[Saelune]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

again, I'm barely familiar with Marvel so aside from a few things I've seen in the cartoons I know very little of Captain America's mythos.

But on the topic of Superman,

Superman just saves the world, sure but he could just as easily enslave it and take over. Who could really stop him if he lost his moral compass? Lex Luthor? Doubtful. Batman? A small chance, depending how long Superman lets him live.

The fact that he has this incredible power and chooses it to do good instead of serving his own needs, especially when he has nothing tying him to our world, let alone America I think makes a pretty powerful statement.

Ok? Kinda irrelevant. If Superman went bad, someone, likely Batman as the main, would beat him (likely with casualties to some unimportant guys and one or two big ones)
In comic books, there is always a way to beat the bad guy. Superman not destroying/enslacing the world just says he is not evil.

There are already "bad" Supermen. Cyborg Superman and Superman-Prime. It means that the main Superman of Earth-0 doesn't have to have one of those awkward "I went bad but now I'm good/dead" storylines.

Well tihs was about THE Superman. There is also already Bizarro Superman, the residen "bad superman"

 

[DudeistBelieve]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

again, I'm barely familiar with Marvel so aside from a few things I've seen in the cartoons I know very little of Captain America's mythos.

But on the topic of Superman,

Superman just saves the world, sure but he could just as easily enslave it and take over. Who could really stop him if he lost his moral compass? Lex Luthor? Doubtful. Batman? A small chance, depending how long Superman lets him live.

The fact that he has this incredible power and chooses it to do good instead of serving his own needs, especially when he has nothing tying him to our world, let alone America I think makes a pretty powerful statement.

Ok? Kinda irrelevant. If Superman went bad, someone, likely Batman as the main, would beat him (likely with casualties to some unimportant guys and one or two big ones)
In comic books, there is always a way to beat the bad guy. Superman not destroying/enslacing the world just says he is not evil.

I'm kinda stumbing through this argument.

Absolute Power tends to corrupt absolutly. Yeah okay it's not technically absolute but one can argue that anyone else with his abilities would of been corrupted a long time ago. (also your assuming Superman doesn't immeadedly go ahead and kill Batman right way, which why wouldn't he? Superman knows the only person capable of taking him down his Bats. Also don't down play the how powerful and evil superman is. Superboy Prime was pretty deadly.)

Also, Watchmen. The bad guy wins.

 

[Saelune]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

again, I'm barely familiar with Marvel so aside from a few things I've seen in the cartoons I know very little of Captain America's mythos.

But on the topic of Superman,

Superman just saves the world, sure but he could just as easily enslave it and take over. Who could really stop him if he lost his moral compass? Lex Luthor? Doubtful. Batman? A small chance, depending how long Superman lets him live.

The fact that he has this incredible power and chooses it to do good instead of serving his own needs, especially when he has nothing tying him to our world, let alone America I think makes a pretty powerful statement.

Ok? Kinda irrelevant. If Superman went bad, someone, likely Batman as the main, would beat him (likely with casualties to some unimportant guys and one or two big ones)
In comic books, there is always a way to beat the bad guy. Superman not destroying/enslacing the world just says he is not evil.

I'm kinda stumbing through this argument.

Absolute Power tends to corrupt absolutly. Yeah okay it's not technically absolute but one can argue that anyone else with his abilities would of been corrupted a long time ago. (also your assuming Superman doesn't immeadedly go ahead and kill Batman right way, which why wouldn't he? Superman knows the only person capable of taking him down his Bats. Also don't down play the how powerful and evil superman is. Superboy Prime was pretty deadly.)

Also, Watchmen. The bad guy wins.

Im arguing in terms of its a comic book. Watchmen is a one off thing. If Superman goes evil and wins, then thats the end of DC comics. Aint gonna happen.

 

[Autofaux]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Remember that scale is also important. With Superman being superpowered, he is required to fight enemies of equal or greater strength. Captain America being similar in strength, agility and endurance to Batman, and also being the one of the heroes of World War II, means he fights on a more varied scale. The shield he has also means he is able to fight enemies of greater strength than him.
So when Superman saves the world, its because other heroes are doing work he doesn't do, or could do easily. It the problem you have when writing for a hero who has shown to tear through walls of nine inch thick steel.

Well thats where Superman generally suffers among people...he is too good he is boring. Also, Captain America actually deals with alot of big stuff, but probably his greatest "power" is his ability to lead. So while he cannot do it alone, he usually can get whats needs done done with the right help.

Well, yeah. But instead of depowering Superman again, you have to make the enemies more powerful. And remember that Superman of Earth-0 isn't close to being the most powerful being in the DC Multiverse. There's Darkseid, Brainiac, Superman-Prime, Ion-powered Sodam Yat, the Daxamites..

The big thing I have a problem with, is now that there are other Kryptonians, like heaps of them, Superman no longer has that emotional vulnerability of being absolutely alone in the universe. Also, having Daxamites, who are genetic cousins to Kryptonians, means there are *two* whole planets of equally powerful potential Supermen.

I'm sensing another retcon or major event to clean up this eventual shitstorm.

 

[Tanis]

I love reading the comments of those folks on the two sites listed.

It sounds like this was posted on Fox News and their 'OMG BLEN BECK IS GOD her-derp' types started posting.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

This actually makes me very sad. Superman is an american icon, a symbol of values we once had. I understand from a thematic stand point it makes sense, it's just a very startling sign of the times that we can't even have Superman representing america anymore.

At least we still have Batman

Captain America is a better "American Superhero" in every sense.

Opinion. And I perfer DC heroes over Marvel.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Remember that scale is also important. With Superman being superpowered, he is required to fight enemies of equal or greater strength. Captain America being similar in strength, agility and endurance to Batman, and also being the one of the heroes of World War II, means he fights on a more varied scale. The shield he has also means he is able to fight enemies of greater strength than him.
So when Superman saves the world, its because other heroes are doing work he doesn't do, or could do easily. It the problem you have when writing for a hero who has shown to tear through walls of nine inch thick steel.

Well thats where Superman generally suffers among people...he is too good he is boring. Also, Captain America actually deals with alot of big stuff, but probably his greatest "power" is his ability to lead. So while he cannot do it alone, he usually can get whats needs done done with the right help.

Well, yeah. But instead of depowering Superman again, you have to make the enemies more powerful. And remember that Superman of Earth-0 isn't close to being the most powerful being in the DC Multiverse. There's Darkseid, Brainiac, Superman-Prime, Ion-powered Sodam Yat, the Daxamites..

The big thing I have a problem with, is now that there are other Kryptonians, like heaps of them, Superman no longer has that emotional vulnerability of being absolutely alone in the universe. Also, having Daxamites, who are genetic cousins to Kryptonians, means there are *two* whole planets of equally powerful potential Supermen.

I'm sensing another retcon or major event to clean up this eventual shitstorm.

Not for nothing, I remember watching the Superman The Animated series in the 90s and not finding it boring. It wasn't nearly as interest as it's Batman counterpart but it had it's moments. Livewire was a pretty cool villian for him.

 

[Technicka]

Green Lantern has this issue covered, sure they always U.S. citizens (I think), but its officaly known the Green Lanterns are protectors of entire sections in space, not just a country.

Actually GL are part of the JLA, so they're considered agents of the U.S. gov't (at worse) or the U.N. (at best). They had an issue long ago where Hal chased a villain into Russia, and all sort of political crap went on because of it.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain. Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Civil War was bad, and you should feel bad for using it to support how awesome Cap is.

 

[Icaruss]

Feth him.We've still got Bat Man and Punisher.Fraggin turn coat.

 

[Saelune]

Green Lantern has this issue covered, sure they always U.S. citizens (I think), but its officaly known the Green Lanterns are protectors of entire sections in space, not just a country.

Actually GL are part of the JLA, so they're considered agents of the U.S. gov't (at worse) or the U.N. (at best). They had an issue long ago where Hal chased a villain into Russia, and all sort of political crap went on because of it.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.

Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Civil War was bad, and you should feel bad for using it to support how awesome Cap is.[/quote]And you should not tell me how I should feel about something that I obviously disagree with you about.

 

[Technicka]

Green Lantern has this issue covered, sure they always U.S. citizens (I think), but its officaly known the Green Lanterns are protectors of entire sections in space, not just a country.

Actually GL are part of the JLA, so they're considered agents of the U.S. gov't (at worse) or the U.N. (at best). They had an issue long ago where Hal chased a villain into Russia, and all sort of political crap went on because of it.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Civil War was bad, and you should feel bad for using it to support how awesome Cap is.

And you should not tell me how I should feel about something that I obviously disagree with you about.

Please, feel free to sound more persnickety over a joke comment.

Civil War had it's moments, if you like heavy-handed topical storylines, but there are better stories that show Cap fighting for what right, and not what's (currently)legal.

 

[Saelune]

Green Lantern has this issue covered, sure they always U.S. citizens (I think), but its officaly known the Green Lanterns are protectors of entire sections in space, not just a country.

Actually GL are part of the JLA, so they're considered agents of the U.S. gov't (at worse) or the U.N. (at best). They had an issue long ago where Hal chased a villain into Russia, and all sort of political crap went on because of it.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Civil War was bad, and you should feel bad for using it to support how awesome Cap is.

And you should not tell me how I should feel about something that I obviously disagree with you about.

Please, feel free to sound more persnickety over a joke comment.

Civil War had it's moments, if you like heavy-handed topical storylines, but there are better stories that show Cap fighting for what right, and not what's (currently)legal.

I did not see anything humorous in the slight with your last comment. Maybe its your own fault for not being funny.

 

[sauerkraus]

I support this decision. Superman should be a defender of the earth, not just of America. Nationalism is almost as bad as religion. They both cause so much pointless hate because people feel a need to be different.

 

[jumjalalabash]

First thought: Didn't they do this already?

Second thought: Didn't they do this in every single possible variation?

 

[Technicka]

Green Lantern has this issue covered, sure they always U.S. citizens (I think), but its officaly known the Green Lanterns are protectors of entire sections in space, not just a country.

Actually GL are part of the JLA, so they're considered agents of the U.S. gov't (at worse) or the U.N. (at best). They had an issue long ago where Hal chased a villain into Russia, and all sort of political crap went on because of it.

Also note, I didn't say THE american symbol. I'd certainly make the strong argument he stands shoulder to shoulder with Captain.Even just on a fact basis, Cap is a much better American Superhero. While I did suggest Captain America is just a better character than Superman, it was more that he is more "American" than Superman. It is probably shown best during the Civil War arch in the Marvel comics. Superman just saves the world, Captain America actually gets involved on a more closer level to what is right and what is law.

Civil War was bad, and you should feel bad for using it to support how awesome Cap is.

And you should not tell me how I should feel about something that I obviously disagree with you about.

Please, feel free to sound more persnickety over a joke comment.

Civil War had it's moments, if you like heavy-handed topical storylines, but there are better stories that show Cap fighting for what right, and not what's (currently)legal.

I did not see anything humorous in the slight with your last comment. Maybe its your own fault for not being funny.

It's a pretty common phrase used online: "____ is bad, and you should feel bad." That you've never encountered it is hardly my problem. But if it makes you feel better to view it as a genuinely personal slight, then carry on.