Teacher orders kindergarteners to beat up class "bully"

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ChildishLegacy

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Syzygy23 said:
Oh, I know! The kids should form a committee to come to a consensus about bullying! THat'll learn him!


I was talking about the person that's supposed to be teaching them and helping them grow up maybe, y'know, talking to them about their problems and their behavior, rather than turning the kids they're supervising into a bunch of prideful apes.
 

RaikuFA

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Quite a conundrum...

On one hand you've got a kid who is tormenting and most likely emotionally scarring his peers.

On the other hand, you've got a teacher who's abusing their power and most likely allowed to because of tenure.

Hard to pick a side. Bullies need to be taken care of ASAP, but teachers shouldn't abuse their power like this...
 

Dastardly

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Speaking as a teacher, this teacher ought to be fired. But not for the reason that many people seem to think.

It is often the case, especially with young bullies, that they enjoy harming others because of the sense of control it gives them. Fueling that, they lack basic empathy -- they don't truly comprehend what harm they're doing beyond what is immediately obvious. (Again, I'm speaking about young bullies)

There are times when exposing a child to what they have done to someone else, in a measured and controlled way, gives them a sense of, "Oh wow. That really, really sucks." Guilt is a critical component of remorse, which is an essential ingredient in the development of empathy. My bullies in school didn't stop until after we fought several times, but the only time I saw any bully "turn around" was after they got bullied (One of them got glasses the following year, and he actually came and apologized to me of his own volition).

So, really, I'm not against the idea that a bully sometimes needs "a dose of his own medicine" before any real change will happen.

HOWEVER:

1. This was not a carefully measured dose.
2. That dose is part of the "treatment," not the whole thing.
3. It was not this teacher's place to administer it.
 

SeeIn2D

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Mr.K. said:
Well I was pretty shocked until I read the headline... "Texas teacher"... now I'm only shocked the teacher didn't shoot the kid outright.
Just gonna say that that is hilarious :D additionally I think this is unbelievably stupid. You have to consider that these kids are in kindergarden. They are like 5 years old and the teacher acted like a kid who picks on other kids in elementary school is going to turn into some killer.
 

Eamar

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Abandon4093 said:
Eamar said:
Syzygy23 said:
Midgeamoo said:
Xan Krieger said:
If the kid was a bully then he deserved it and I see nothing wrong here. Bullies will only stop when they realized there are consequences and I think this kid just learned to stop.
So you think Kids should learn that violence solves their problems, and that vicious retaliation is acceptable?

Seriously, how can you even think that this would teach a bully a lesson, most of them have problems and can be quite angry kids, hitting them isn't going to solve anything, not that they should hit them even if it would solve anything.
Um, maybe because that's sort of how the world works?

What, do you think the bully will learn his lesson if everyone writes up a cross-indexed, alphabetized, formal list of complaints about his behavior?

Oh, I know! The kids should form a committee to come to a consensus about bullying! THat'll learn him!

Nope, instead he probably learned something totally useless, like how if he torments one or two kids the rest will come down upon him like a swarm of angry hornets.
There's a world of difference between one of the kids he was accused of bullying pushing him back and the godamn teacher lining up the whole class and forcing them to hit him.

The police report alleges that the teacher chose to show the child "why bullying is bad" by instructing his peers to "Hit him!" and "Hit him harder!"
If that's true, do you seriously think that's a person who should be working with kids?
Sure it's an extreme situation. But we've practically neutered our teachers over the years. We've put children in a massive bubble labelled fragile and we practically assault anyone who dares pop that bubble. Even parents.

I remember what a shit was when I was a kid. I also remember my parents would give me a swift smack if I did something particularly bad.

Now people complain if you so much as look at your child the wrong way.

Like it or not we respond to punishment. Especially in our youth.

Now how exactly can a teacher punish a bully? Send a letter home? Good luck with that, parenting is pretty much extinct at the minute. Give them a stern talking to? Because we all know that always works.

It's like the ASBO culture, some kids wear that shit like a badge of honour.

Now I'm not saying what she did was right or that something shouldn't be done about it. But don't blame her. She's the product of a neutered and frustrated profession.

Teachers used to be able to exact a swift punishment that made you think twice with the cane. But we took that away from them, and up until a few years ago we were skirting on parents picking up the slack. But now that the majority are either afraid to raid their hands over a child for fear of someone calling social services or just don't care enough to do anything about it. Discipline is sorely lacking.

I'm not one for rattling off 'in my day speeches'. Because there have always been yobs and shits. But there are an awful lot of bad parents out there, letting loose their uninhibited sprogs into a school system that's powerless to impose any kind of worthwhile disciplinary action.
Dude, you're two years older than me. I'm pretty sure you didn't grow up being caned.

Like you said, there have always been bullies. I gave an example a few posts back of how the worst bully I knew at that age was disciplined, and while I know one anecdote doesn't constitute proof I really do feel that there are alternative ways to go about discipling young children. Though for what it's worth I don't think there's much wrong with a parent delivering a smack (that doesn't leave a mark and is more about the shock of the action than causing pain) when necessary.

And to answer your question, yes the teacher should first of all tell the kid off verbally, and then inform the parents. Because a) for some kids that age a stern telling off is all it takes, and b) this was the first the parents had heard about their child's behaviour. You can't just assume that all parents are useless, you have to give them the opportunity to discipline their child.

After that it's less clear, but you can't jump straight to violence.
 

Chairman Miaow

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SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Torrasque said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
Torrasque said:
What I imagine, is the parent goes "what?! SOME TEACHER HURT MY LITTLE SPECIAL SCHNOOKY POOKY?!?!? MY SPECIAL LITTLE GUY?!?! RRRRRRRRAAAAAGE!!!!!!" and they enter an enraged state and go seeking the teacher's blood, literally.
If we are just going to make stupid assumptions with nothing to really back it up, I'm going to argue that the teacher is actually a malicious devil who had the kid beat even though he did nothing.
Its an assumption, there's no arguing that. But I've known more parents to ignore whatever their kid has done and attack the person that hurt their little pooky. The majority of parents (especially in this bloody retarded generation) will assume their kids can do no wrong.
And I've known many teachers who will actively go out of there way to annoy and torture pupils or students. Proves nothing.

Stop making stupid assumptions please. Thanks.
You should have stopped talking to them when you saw they put "especially in this bloody retarded generation". People who hate this generation more than any other are just idiots.
 

bullet_sandw1ch

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Torrasque said:
SmashLovesTitanQuest said:
In Soviet Texas, victim hits bully!

Seriously, it's Texas. Theres not much that can surprise me when it comes to that state.

Torrasque said:
OP: This is pretty cut and dry in regards to the bully and the teacher, my only problem is that the parent of the bully seems to be on a campaign to ensure that teacher never gets hired again. I'm pretty sure that parent should be concerned with her fucking kid before she should be concerned with some messed up teacher. Pretty sure the teacher's reputation will follow her without needing any help.
Do you really think it's that unreasonable?

Children having their own little fights is something of a norm, what this teacher did is not.

Besides, I'm sure the parents are intelligent enough to lecture their kid and get the teacher fired at the same time. They are human, I assume, so they should be able to manage it. (Although it is Texas, so you never know for sure...)
What I imagine, is the parent goes "what?! SOME TEACHER HURT MY LITTLE SPECIAL SCHNOOKY POOKY?!?!? MY SPECIAL LITTLE GUY?!?! RRRRRRRRAAAAAGE!!!!!!" and they enter an enraged state and go seeking the teacher's blood, literally.

In my experience, more parents will assume their child is blameless and blame the teacher/etc., than blame their own kids for being stupid.
thats what i love about my parents. theyll accept that im not a perfect angel at school, and NEVER instantly blame the other kid.
 

Eamar

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RaikuFA said:
Quite a conundrum...

On one hand you've got a kid who is tormenting and most likely emotionally scarring his peers.
Another thought, and obviously I'm in no better position than anyone else here to know what was going on, but none of us has proof that this kid was actually a bully. The article just says that he was perceived as such by some other students, not that the teacher witnessed him beating someone up, or that other teachers confirmed it or anything.

Now again, I'm not going to jump in and assume that he did nothing wrong, but... the word "bully" gets thrown around a hell of a lot at that age. I once got called a "bully" by some kid when I was about seven because I didn't want to play with him at break. Luckily, the teacher took the time to find out what had actually happened before punishing anyone. And I had several friends (and a sister) who got accused of bullying by kids who were being mean to/bullying them because they knew it'd get them into all sorts of trouble.

I just think people should think more carefully about this sort of thing when the children involved are so young.
 

EHKOS

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And? Why is this bad? Bullies suck, and most teachers don't do shit. Maybe there would be less adult bullies too if we all did this. I don't see anyone else trying to stop it, and not only does it cause mental scarring, it also pushes unstable kids to go shoot up schools. I'm sorry, but after being bullied all through school, I'm not sympathetic.
 
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EHKOS said:
And? Why is this bad? Bullies suck, and most teachers don't do shit. Maybe there would be less adult bullies too if we all did this. I don't see anyone else trying to stop it, and not only does it cause mental scarring, it also pushes unstable kids to go shoot up schools. I'm sorry, but after being bullied all through school, I'm not sympathetic.
Yes, I'm sure being beaten up by 20 of your peers, and getting 24 injuries as a result (meaning some kids attacked twice) wouldn't cause any mental scarring at all.
 

OldNewNewOld

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The teaches is fucked up, but I would be lying if I said I felt sorry for the kid.
He deserves it and more.

I had my problems with bullies in school, until I decided to send 2 of them to the hospital by hitting them with a chair several times. But it was after school and everyone else in my class was on my side and said I didn't do anything. No consequences for me and those 2 bastards became so nice to me and everyone else.

Trust me, once you send a bully in the hospital, he will almost always get out as a better men.

thebobmaster said:
EHKOS said:
And? Why is this bad? Bullies suck, and most teachers don't do shit. Maybe there would be less adult bullies too if we all did this. I don't see anyone else trying to stop it, and not only does it cause mental scarring, it also pushes unstable kids to go shoot up schools. I'm sorry, but after being bullied all through school, I'm not sympathetic.
Yes, I'm sure being beaten up by 20 of your peers, and getting 24 injuries as a result (meaning some kids attacked twice) wouldn't cause any mental scarring at all.
By being a bully, he forfeited all protection from bullying.
 

conmag9

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I can understand the desire to inflict brutal backlash on bullies. I got enough of it when I was a kid to have a revenge impulse. I admire the ability to maintain control of one's emotions enough not to seek it. Given that most of the bullying I got was emotional, that's appropriate.

Physical bullying is harder. When it's relatively low level, which I would expect with children, this sort of reaction is utterly unacceptable (especially on 6 year olds and especially with the teacher encouraging it). For more extreme measures, I become less sure. I once had a particular asshole who literally went out of his way to punch or kick me every time he was within reach and my back was turned. The only time it stopped was when I grabbed him by the neck, slammed him against a wall, and told him on no uncertain terms to back the hell off before I do something we'll both regret.

I think someone who can avoid getting physical and perpetuating a violent cycle deserves accolades. They are morally the victor. But when you run out of other options (when no authority figure is helping or sufficient), when lesser measures run out (and bullies rarely worry about threats that don't have a physical component), I find myself unable to blame someone who wants to fight back against a tormentor. This is not one of those cases though. She should certainly be fired, whatever her intent.
 

Cheery Lunatic

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DVS BSTrD said:
Cheery Lunatic said:
DVS BSTrD said:
Aw look, the state that gave us George W. Bush is uncomfortable being associated with unnecessary violence
Please stop and reflect over what you just said. I sincerely hope you were kidding.
Cuz, y'know, one person represents an entire area.

I honestly do not know what to make of this.
Yeaaahh... Cept you guys CHOSE him to represent your state.
...trololol?

Please tell me that you don't really think politicians represent everyone in the public.
Because Bush was voted president of the U.S. and we all know how amazingly high his approval ratings were.

Whatever, we're derailing the thread and I'll just end this here, but I sincerely hope you're trolling me because I'd rather appear gullible than you really be that ignorant.
 

Versuvius

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Well 1: Damn. Thats some serious malpractice.
2: I hope that bully keeps getting his face punched until he stops being a little shit. Just in the playground. And not teacher mandated.
 

Eamar

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BiH-Kira said:
The teaches is fucked up, but I would be lying if I said I felt sorry for the kid.
He deserves it and more.

I had my problems with bullies in school, until I decided to send 2 of them to the hospital by hitting them with a chair several times. But it was after school and everyone else in my class was on my side and said I didn't do anything. No consequences for me and those 2 bastards became so nice to me and everyone else.

Trust me, once you send a bully in the hospital, he will almost always get out as a better men.
...Wow. I seriously hope your actions were proportionate to what they did to you :S

Yes, I'm sure being beaten up by 20 of your peers, and getting 24 injuries as a result (meaning some kids attacked twice) wouldn't cause any mental scarring at all.
By being a bully, he forfeited all protection from bullying.
Six. Years. Old. Six.

I'm sorry you had a hard time growing up, but you sound downright scary right now.