Teaching kids about homosexuality

[VGStrife]

My pregnant sister has a 7 year old step-daughter who's in the process of learning about the birds and the bees. I was a little rattled to learn that my sister is only teaching her about hetrosexual relations, saying that it would be 'inappropriate' to tell her about homosexuality at such an early age as the step-daughter might discuss it at school and awkward phone calls from the teachers might follow. Since my sister is in a hetrosexual marriage she argued that it's what her step-daughter encounters on a daily basis, and thus is what she should be taught as the 'norm'.

Do you escapists think that children should be told about homosexuality and homosexual relationships at the same time as they're learning about straight relationships?

Well when I was taught about the birds and the bees, I was learning about how babies were made, not relationships. As far as I know, when a pair of homosexuals have a physical relationship, it doesn't end up producing a baby.

The birds and the bees is inherently discussing relationships. A sexual relationship. Without a sexual relationship, there are no birds or bees.

True, no sex no baby but sex does not equal love. While I would agree that kids should be taught about test tube babies and artificial insemination, what point would there be in adding a blurb saying something along the lines of "Gays are okay and have sex too", when we're teaching kids about the biology part of making a baby?

The whole discussion is about sex. So, if you are teaching kids about sex, just say "when 2 people love each other"............then discuss the fact that a woman and a man come together, and they can have babies. Then say some men and men/women and women come together, and then discuss test tube/IVF/adoption etc, that while two people of the same-sex don't have kids in the same way two people of the opposite sex do, there are plenty of other ways for them to be parents.

I can understand not doing it all at one time, but since it's a reality of life, it needs to be discussed.

Proof that sarcasm on the internet does not work.

OT: I am very much of the opinion that if they ask (where babies come from/what is sex) answer the question asked. So where do babies come from, mummy and daddy bonk and a baby pops out.
What is sex, 2 people love each other they bonk.

I like the word bonk

 

[spartandude]

well im not sure how "apropiate" teaching a child her age about sex is to begin with. however i think homosexuality is no more inapropiate then hetrosexuality.

 

[Lieju]

The whole idea of "birds and bees" talk is odd to me. I grew up on the countryside and always had the fascination for biology, so I always knew how reproduction worked, I think...
I recall asking my mom what "gay" meant when I was 6 (as I was called one by bullies who didn't know what the word meant either). My mom told me, and I recall wondering why people would use it as an insult.

One definitely shouldn't treat homosexuality like it's a secret. If relationships, marriages and that stuff come up, it should be mentioned, I think.

But, just like heterosexuality, it's not going to be particularly important to the kid before they hit puberty.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Just tell her that this love can apply to almost anyone and let her connect the dots and feel special for a few years, eh?

 

[Thespian]

I think everyone should account for the possibility of the child in question (any child, not this specific girl) being gay one day. Being fairly sure that you are something but knowing nothing about it is frightening, let me tell you that. I knew nothing about homosexuality (bless my innocence... But I don't mean solely about sex) and could not even conceive of how two men could be romantically involved with each other. Now, it is one of the most natural things to me, and I live a considerably more healthy, wholesome existence. Telling children about it can't hurt at all, no more than telling them about any sort of sex. There are gay people in the world. Whoops, some people are gay. Quite a few, actually. Gay people have their own culture, and a large part in our world. Kids will run into it eventually, is it not better for them to know about it? At what point did less Knowledge help people be better prepared for the world?

I'm not sure how this could be considered a troll...I'm serious. Homosexuality is on the same level as bestiality and necrophilia. They're all wrong, wierd things that shouldn't happen but do, but only among the strange and confused. Kids don't need to know about any of that weird stuff until they're old enough to understand crazy people.

Wow, you're incredibly mistaken here. I mean, sure from an ethical point of view what you said is pretty unsavoury, but simply on a scientific level your claims are erroneous.

Firstly, Homosexuality is not a mental disorder in that it does not hinder people from forming thought processes in the same way as heterosexuals. Thus, homosexual people are not crazy people.

Secondly, there is nothing wrong with having desires of bestiality or necrophilia. People cannot choose what fetishes they have. That's just how their mind works. They are more uncommon, but no less healthy, than preferring apple juice to orange juice. Acting on these impulses however, are negative, as they harm people. Just like a heterosexual male "acting on an impulse" to have sex with a woman without her consent is wrong. Desiring the woman because she is beautiful is not unhealthy, however, so long as you don't act on it impulsively.

Thirdly, "wrong" is very subjective. Homosexuality hurts no one. If you want to bring up something about homosexual sexual abuse, I might remind you that the most common perpetrator of sexual offense is a heterosexual male aged between the years of 20-40. FACT.
And so, if Homosexuality does not harm anybody, all that remains is that it is different. In fact, not even that different, considering 1 in 6 people are gay. So slightly different and quite common. That's a funny definition of "Wrong" you have.

Also, if you look at people who consider themselves members of gay culture, or a gay community, we are anything but confused, and only strange to people who don't get out enough.

 

[mumakurau]

If she later finds out she is indeed actually queer,.

Please don't use the word queer when talking about homosexuality. I find it offensive just use homosexual or gay, I see "queer" as a derogatory word.

So? I find a lot of words offensive, but I don't act like a diva and ask everyone to stop using them. There are too many opinions in this world to satisfy everyone.

While some people have "thicker skin" than others, you aren't helping your argument by willing insulting other people. Please, show some integrity and respect the user's request.

 

[The Hairminator]

Whether the user meant it or not, I can't help but feel a sort of homophobic vibe from this post. To approach homosexuality in a retroactive fashion only helps the stigma. To make it known that it "isn't right" even though that besides sexual preferences, gays and lesbians are people like everybody else.

Trust me, it's not like that. My sister was a lesbian through the ages 15-17, and even I had my moment.

Furthermore, to say heterosexuality is the norm is like saying that being right-handed is the norm. Sure, their may be more right-handed people than left-handed people, but that doesn't mean left-handed people are abnormal. Like a person's handedness, many forms of sexuality have been around since the beginning.[/spoiler]You don't give a presumed right-handed kid left handed toys and tools, now do you? That's the point I'm trying to prove. Why even open the possibility to them getting to think they are something they are not. I am speaking from my own experience.

Naturally, you shall in no way hush about it should the kids ask about homosexuality at some time, and should attraction to the own gender be shown it shouldn't be shunned.

Yes, heterosexual intercourse is the only way for new life to be born. However, encouraging everybody to do so will only create problems. Whether people believe it or not, the world is overpopulated. With overpopulation comes scarcity in resource (just because it isn't happening to you, does not mean it isn't happening elsewhere). Homosexuals are actually doing the world a grand favor in the long run. They cannot produce new life (in most cases*) and many are willing to give homes and a family to children in need of both.

You have a good point. But as I said, I have nothing against homosexuals. Letting them raise a child is also something I'm not entirely sure off I approve in all cases. A child is a fragile thing, and even though two men or two women may be the most wonderful parents in the world together, society and peers are bound to react on it and treat the kid unfairly. Once again, the problem is not with the actual homosexuals, but with the world. [/quote]

My point: Yes, we should teach children about homosexuality. We should teach them because at the end of the day sexuality doesn't matter and that we should love our children despite their preferences.

All I'm saying is that they should not be too encouraged. You can see the side effects of that, just as well as I can.

On an unrelated note; I got about 30 quotes on the 2 posts I made in this thread up until now. There was a lot of critique, and an equal amount of praising, sorry for not having the time to address all of you. It would take up important sleep time, and I would just repeat myself.

 

[Susano]

No but i agree with The Hairminator, If you're teaching kids a "rule" about life, like a family is a mommy and a daddy and whatever kids they might have, then you don't go on to immediately tell them about the "exceptions" to that "rule". You let the kid learn the rule and then let them start applying it. when they start to notice that there are exceptions to their rule then they are ready to learn about them and you can have that second talk about homosexuality. I know from experience that when learning something new (and i'm talking about academics now)if i am taught the wrong way to do something first, or how many people do this thing wrong or so on(BTW I am NOT trying to imply that homosexuality is wrong.) then i end up remembering both ways, the right way and the common mistake, and i'm continually confused as to which one was the right way to do this thing from that point on.
Basically you end up confusing the idea that you are trying to teach and making it harder to sort it all out in the future.

But life doesn't have "rules", and homosexuality isn't an "exception". I don't see your point about how learning something that's pretty clear-cut like a maths theorem with a right and wrong way to do things is in any way related to what you're talking about.

Whether the user meant it or not, I can't help but feel a sort of homophobic vibe from this post. To approach homosexuality in a retroactive fashion only helps the stigma. To make it known that it "isn't right" even though that besides sexual preferences, gays and lesbians are people like everybody else.

Trust me, it's not like that. My sister was a lesbian through the ages 15-17, and even I had my moment.

If this is your explanation about the "insecurity" or "people often aren't the sexuality they think they are", I will again say that I think that sexuality is a bit more than these stupid labels we have.

My point: Yes, we should teach children about homosexuality. We should teach them because at the end of the day sexuality doesn't matter and that we should love our children despite their preferences.

All I'm saying is that they should not be too encouraged. You can see the side effects of that, just as well as I can.

On an unrelated note; I got about 30 quotes on the 2 posts I made in this thread up until now. There was a lot of critique, and an equal amount of praising, sorry for not having the time to address all of you. It would take up important sleep time, and I would just repeat myself.

Encouragement? Side effects?
Sorry if I seem like I'm questioning things that seem fairly obvious, but I'm trying to not jump to conclusions about what people mean.

 

[Krantos]

OT: It's a tough call to make. On the one hand, portraying homosexuality on the same plane as heterosexuality is important, imo. On the other hand, the social issues and everything surrounding society's gradual acceptance of homosexuality is a little much for a 7 year old to handle.

I think that I would just teach them the procreation stuff (heterosexual), and leave the rest for later. When you think about it, our society primarily uses sex for recreation (heterosexual and homosexual), but you really don't want to tell a 7 year old "yeah, it's great fun." I would save the sexual orientation discussion for when they're old enough to understand that sex is done for other reasons than making babies.

 

[The Hairminator]

While some people have "thicker skin" than others, you aren't helping your argument by willing insulting other people. Please, show some integrity and respect the user's request.

Even though it may be offensive to him it is not commonly regarded so, if I'm not horribly mistaken. I think you will be pleased to note, however, that I will and did refrain from using the word again while addressing him that time after he expressed his dislike for it.

What I say to others when he is not present he frankly has no reasonable cause to even have an opinion about.

 

[Schreck157]

On the original topic, I think that children should be taught about both sexualities. Educating children leads to more mature adults. I, however, don't think that the child should be influenced to either path by the parents, the child will do that all by themselves. A child growing up in a homosexual household will naturally view homosexuality as the norm because that's what they're most exposed to, and vice-versa. Once the child matures and can decided on their own what they would like to be will all that education during their younger years come into play and help out during a stressful time.

 

[nekoali]

Yes, children should be taught about homosexual and bisexual relationships at the same time as they learn about heterosexual ones. Or more accurately, they should all be discussed together. This business about homosexual relationships not being 'the norm' and that we shouldn't influence children into it is part of the huge problems with underlying homophobia that exists in the world. Even people who are open accepting see 'normal' and 'gay' relationships... A gay relationship is just as normal and natural as a straight one. Treating them otherwise is just perpetuating the myth that being gay is somehow inferior or wrong, even if it's being done unconsciously.

 

[The Hairminator]

So? I find a lot of words offensive, but I don't act like a diva and ask everyone to stop using them. There are too many opinions in this world to satisfy everyone.

Gasp.. A white, straight boy comparing his experience of being insulted with that of other people.. I never saw that coming!

It's more of a philosophy than anything else. If people were less stuck up about things the world would be a much better place

AND DON'T DARE CALL ME WHITE
That is both unsensitive and misleading [small]It's actually more like beige[/small]

Spoiler: THE CONFESSION

Anyway, if it feels like you can identify more with me, I was bullied through entire elementary school

 

[bobknowsall]

No, I do not. I don't think homosexuality should be encouraged, unless it actually comes from the child itself, with as little as external influence as possible.

...or the kid might catch the gay?

You would be amazed how many people think they have a sexuality they indeed have not (at least that's what I firmly believe). I feel sorry for people under 18 who claim to be homosexual, as it's more often than not insecurity.

Well, not to be a stickler or anything, but do you mind backing up your sweeping assertion? Some facts would be nice.

 

[The Hairminator]

Encouragement? Side effects?
Sorry if I seem like I'm questioning things that seem fairly obvious, but I'm trying to not jump to conclusions about what people mean.

People led to the point where they think they are something they aren't. Uncertainty in sexuality is awesome for creating psychological wrecks. Once again, I'm speaking from own experience and extremely limited intelligence.

If it makes you feel any better, let's say you won. I never intended to get into a deep discussion to defend my views to someone who is clearly too assured of his/her own to understand mine.

 

[bobknowsall]

Yes, children should be taught about homosexual and bisexual relationships at the same time as they learn about heterosexual ones. Or more accurately, they should all be discussed together. This business about homosexual relationships not being 'the norm' and that we shouldn't influence children into it is part of the huge problems with underlying homophobia that exists in the world. Even people who are open accepting see 'normal' and 'gay' relationships... A gay relationship is just as normal and natural as a straight one. Treating them otherwise is just perpetuating the myth that being gay is somehow inferior or wrong, even if it's being done unconsciously.

Too right. The prevailing attitudes of the people around them will make non-heterosexual relationships look bad anyway. No need to help that sort of discrimination.

 

[Thespian]

-snip-

I'm kinda just responding to your posts in general. That makes me so unique, roight? I know a dozen of people quoted you, but in your most recent point you seemed unchanged about something. If several people have already taken you up on this and you responded but I missed it, feel free to fill me in on my ignorance...

But I really don't see what makes you think that telling people about homosexuality encourages it. I also don't see what's wrong with "encouraging" it anymore than heterosexuality is "encouraged". I am a fairly resolute atheist, but I am not going to raise my kids atheist. I shall tell them about Religions, how they work, how the most commonplace ones work, and let them research and make their own decision. Shouldn't they decide what's wrong or right for themselves?

But I digress. My point is, how on earth could knowing about homosexuality encourage it? It is true that studies have shown that more or less every adolescent, though it is slightly more common in males, go through a period of their lives in which they are unsure of their sexuality, however short or significant that period is. However, that is an enriching experience nonetheless, as it promotes understanding of yourself. And whilst learning about new concepts may bring it on quicker, there is no avoiding such a big question about yourself.

I continue to digress. All of that aside, it is still ludicrous to assume that homosexuality can be influenced by learning about it. By god, you can attend a YMCA or Gay Bar every day for the rest of your life, expose your midriff for all to see and throw yourself over the opposite gender (or engage in any other stereotypes) but it won't change the fact that you are homosexual, if you are. No more so than hanging around tall people will make you tall. You can put on the pinstripe soot and wear platform shoes, but really you can't kid yourself.

All that learning will encourage is acceptance of other people, not assimilation. And you yourself seem to have stated that you promote acceptance of others, whether you agree with it or not, no?

 

[spartandude]

Encouragement? Side effects?
Sorry if I seem like I'm questioning things that seem fairly obvious, but I'm trying to not jump to conclusions about what people mean.

People led to the point where they think they are something they aren't. Uncertainty in sexuality is awesome for creating psychological wrecks. Once again, I'm speaking from own experience and extremely limited intelligence.

If it makes you feel any better, let's say you won. I never intended to get into a deep discussion to defend my views to someone who is clearly too assured of his/her own to understand mine.

is it going to hurt you to use the word gay or homosexual? while i dont find queer offensive most gay people do or (like me) find it uncomfortable

 

[Cyberjester]

I'm going to avoid saying much on this, simply because I have a tendency to annoy everyone. Normally a good thing, but bans are so annoying.

Just going to point out that homosexuality isn't a viable choice, and the why is because they're all so insecure. In Australia, not sure about other countries, they're pushing for a law. This law means that in schools, between grades three and five, children will be given a multiple choice test. Their sexual preference will be determined by this test, and they will then be segregated and treated differently.

Fuck. That. Shit.

I mean, that's.. One of the rallying cries for the homosexual movement was "freedom". The freedom to act as you please. I'm good with that, pacifist hippy at heart, but anarchistic streak that's all for freedom. But that's not freedom. The homosexual community doesn't get along with bisexuals, they refer to them as "closet gays". The amount of times I've had random people come up to me at uni, walking in the city, etc and tell me I need to ditch my gf because at heart I'm gay? This is people I've never met, forcing their opinions onto me.

Any movement that insecure and manipulative needs to die. Anyone involved doing something like that needs to die. In short, it isn't a viable option as of yet because the majority of homosexuals I come across are, in a word, bad.

The "community" as a whole needs to smarten up before you present it as an option.



Unless they're a guy, not an option if they're a guy. The rectum is not that versatile, it doesn't sometimes loosen, it loosens and that's it. I haven't read this on wiki either, this is being around people who really need to be wearing nappies. For a female it's more viable, I can't think off hand of any physical issues. The only ones I've observed are emotional, they can get pretty bad but NOR of course.

 

[Cyberjester]

Encouragement? Side effects?
Sorry if I seem like I'm questioning things that seem fairly obvious, but I'm trying to not jump to conclusions about what people mean.

People led to the point where they think they are something they aren't. Uncertainty in sexuality is awesome for creating psychological wrecks. Once again, I'm speaking from own experience and extremely limited intelligence.

If it makes you feel any better, let's say you won. I never intended to get into a deep discussion to defend my views to someone who is clearly too assured of his/her own to understand mine.

is it going to hurt you to use the word gay or homosexual? while i dont find queer offensive most gay people do or (like me) find it uncomfortable

Homosexuals took over gay, you can keep queer.

Drop the gay and I'll drop the queer. Fair, no?