Team Fortress Two: Comments and ideas on the game and what'd you'd like to see in future updates.

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Stuff

I agree with you here, I'm more proud of my TF2 gaming skills than my hats and I respect skilled players more than players with rare hats.

Hats are just a way of squeezing that teeny bit more incentive out of players that like playing, to keep playing. Yet they seemed to have turned into the reason to keep playing, which I think is really silly.

I do like how they're basically an in-joke within an in-joke, considering 7 out of 9 characters already wear a hat by default.

 

[Wintermoot]

|I,d like to see more meet the.. vids like meet the Medic and maybe new updates (for example a second Scout update)

 

[archvile93]

I'll believe you when everything isn't horribly overpriced. $17 for a hat I, with no coding experience whatsoever, could probably figure how to code into the game in a day, and then once I learned how pump out another one every minute? No thanks. Also, like I said, you can either pay for the items, or play the game obssessive compulsively and pray to god you get them in random drops. If you do, then I suggest playing the lottery since you clearly are the luckiest man alive. Then there's the lock boxes. Keys are never dropped, so how do you get one? Well you have to pay $2.50 of course, and you don't even know what's even in the box, it could just be scrap metal in which case, congratulations you just paid money to be thifted. It amazes me when everyone complains about the overpriced map packs for MW2 (I didn't buy those either) and yet have no problem with this.

The money is divided between all the creators of the maps and hats, not just the person who created the individual hat bought.

The whole hat shit has become a metagame in itself, which I don't understand. It's a completely optional thing, be it playing for hours or paying extravagant cash - it doesn't improve your play experience at all. It's just for kicks.

Y'see the difference between overpriced Map Packs and paying for an optional hat, is that if you don't buy the Map Packs, Activision is declining gameplay from you. If you don't get a hat, nothing is lost. Nothing at all. Everyone in all of TF2 is playing the same game. Once you divide a community's playing experience by $15, that's when it gets wholly unreasonable.

As for the crates, okay $2.50 for to unlock a random item is pretty bad. But if you're willing to pay that much for basically nothing, then you're dumb enough to deserve to get nothing of worth in return. The store is completely harmless and if you take issue with it because you feel you're getting "ripped off" or whatever, then you probably feel ripped off when you stand outside of a store in real life. "How dare they price things!" *shakes fist*

Actually you do need hats. Hats boost stats with no disadvantages at all. It's the same concept as others having better guns. They have an in game advantage I don't have access to. If I want to compete, I need to pay, and I already paid for the game. That sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Also, I don't mind paying for things as long as the price isn't unreasonable. Why would I pay the price of the game for an in game item that was shit out in an hour? Because I need it if I want to stand a chance. To reitierate, I feel ripped off because one, the items are horribly overpriced, and two, if I don't pay I'll spend more time dead than alive in the game since I just can't compete with players that have better equipment that I'm not allowed to use unless they're the worst players in history, and that doesn't sound very fun. This is what I feel Valve did.

ME: So the game is $20?
Vavlve: That's right.
M:Okay, I'll take it *goes home and plays, get frustrated, comes back* Um I seem to have a problem with this game, I was under the assumption that I bought a full game, but you seem to want me to pay even more than the game itself so I stand a chance against other players.
V: That's right.
M: You said I just needed to buy the game to play it, but I can't even stand a chance because everyone has better stuff and I get shit.
V: That's right, and you are playing, you just need to pay about an extra $100 in order to have fun with it.
M: You could've mentioned that before.
V: You wouldn't have bought the game then would you?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

thoughts?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/The-Escapist-Team-Fortress-2-Group-PC

We've known about it for some time now

M: You said I just needed to buy the game to play it, but I can't even stand a chance because everyone has better stuff and I get shit.

V: Are you mad? We've given you more than 2 games worth of free stuff and now that we add a few things extra, which make very little difference, you're throwing your toys out of the pram? This is why you can't have nice things anymore.

Amount spent on extras for TF2: £0
Extra stuff I've got: Lots
Amount of fun I still have : closing on 1000 hours.

 

[archvile93]

thoughts?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/The-Escapist-Team-Fortress-2-Group-PC

We've known about it for some time now

M: You said I just needed to buy the game to play it, but I can't even stand a chance because everyone has better stuff and I get shit.

V: Are you mad? We've given you more than 2 games worth of free stuff and now that we add a few things extra, which make very little difference, you're throwing your toys out of the pram? This is why you can't have nice things anymore.

Amount spent on extras for TF2: £0
Extra stuff I've got: Lots
Amount of fun I still have : closing on 1000 hours.

Two games worth of content, right. You mean like a few new maps to make up for the fact it only started with about four, and a few new hats that and weapons that I can't use and others can so I either have the option of getting my ass handed to me or paying even more money to get on even footing? Even with the updates, Black Ops still manages to have more. Or do you count stuff that doesn't do anything as valid content (Some hats don't do anything)?

 

[Aelesis]

archvile93, you do realise that most of the unlockable weapons in the game are NOT better than the originals, only side-grades? The set bonuses are the only thing you can validly complain about on that area, and two of them have balancing drawbacks anyway!

 

[A Weary Exile]

I'll believe you when everything isn't horribly overpriced. $17 for a hat I, with no coding experience whatsoever, could probably figure how to code into the game in a day, and then once I learned how pump out another one every minute? No thanks. Also, like I said, you can either pay for the items, or play the game obssessive compulsively and pray to god you get them in random drops. If you do, then I suggest playing the lottery since you clearly are the luckiest man alive. Then there's the lock boxes. Keys are never dropped, so how do you get one? Well you have to pay $2.50 of course, and you don't even know what's even in the box, it could just be scrap metal in which case, congratulations you just paid money to be thifted. It amazes me when everyone complains about the overpriced map packs for MW2 (I didn't buy those either) and yet have no problem with this.

The money is divided between all the creators of the maps and hats, not just the person who created the individual hat bought.

The whole hat shit has become a metagame in itself, which I don't understand. It's a completely optional thing, be it playing for hours or paying extravagant cash - it doesn't improve your play experience at all. It's just for kicks.

Y'see the difference between overpriced Map Packs and paying for an optional hat, is that if you don't buy the Map Packs, Activision is declining gameplay from you. If you don't get a hat, nothing is lost. Nothing at all. Everyone in all of TF2 is playing the same game. Once you divide a community's playing experience by $15, that's when it gets wholly unreasonable.

As for the crates, okay $2.50 for to unlock a random item is pretty bad. But if you're willing to pay that much for basically nothing, then you're dumb enough to deserve to get nothing of worth in return. The store is completely harmless and if you take issue with it because you feel you're getting "ripped off" or whatever, then you probably feel ripped off when you stand outside of a store in real life. "How dare they price things!" *shakes fist*

Actually you do need hats. Hats boost stats with no disadvantages at all...

Except that they do have disadvantages. They are sidegrades, not upgrades.

Disadvantages for all polycount packs

Soldier: One less rocket, no shotgun.
Pyro: 10% more bullet vunerability, Degreaser's weaker flame but with no axetinguisher for insta-killing.
Scout: No pistol, Shortstop is weaker than scattergun. (Though I'll admit this one needs nerfing)
Spy: No disguise kit, weaker pistol (Although I prefer the L'tranger anyway ), Spy flickers for longer when bumped into.
Sniper: No headshots, weaker sniper rifle, no secondary.

So other than the Scout (IMO) most of the polycount loadouts are fine.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

I'd like to see something like a classic mode, because to me the high point of the game was before the added weapons.

There are loads of servers that disable load outs. You just have to find them.

OT: I love me some TF2, and I'm happy as long as they keep adding new and interesting weapons to keep the game fresh.

 

[archvile93]

I'll believe you when everything isn't horribly overpriced. $17 for a hat I, with no coding experience whatsoever, could probably figure how to code into the game in a day, and then once I learned how pump out another one every minute? No thanks. Also, like I said, you can either pay for the items, or play the game obssessive compulsively and pray to god you get them in random drops. If you do, then I suggest playing the lottery since you clearly are the luckiest man alive. Then there's the lock boxes. Keys are never dropped, so how do you get one? Well you have to pay $2.50 of course, and you don't even know what's even in the box, it could just be scrap metal in which case, congratulations you just paid money to be thifted. It amazes me when everyone complains about the overpriced map packs for MW2 (I didn't buy those either) and yet have no problem with this.

The money is divided between all the creators of the maps and hats, not just the person who created the individual hat bought.

The whole hat shit has become a metagame in itself, which I don't understand. It's a completely optional thing, be it playing for hours or paying extravagant cash - it doesn't improve your play experience at all. It's just for kicks.

Y'see the difference between overpriced Map Packs and paying for an optional hat, is that if you don't buy the Map Packs, Activision is declining gameplay from you. If you don't get a hat, nothing is lost. Nothing at all. Everyone in all of TF2 is playing the same game. Once you divide a community's playing experience by $15, that's when it gets wholly unreasonable.

As for the crates, okay $2.50 for to unlock a random item is pretty bad. But if you're willing to pay that much for basically nothing, then you're dumb enough to deserve to get nothing of worth in return. The store is completely harmless and if you take issue with it because you feel you're getting "ripped off" or whatever, then you probably feel ripped off when you stand outside of a store in real life. "How dare they price things!" *shakes fist*

Actually you do need hats. Hats boost stats with no disadvantages at all...

Except that they do have disadvantages. They are sidegrades, not upgrades.

Disadvantages for all polycount packs

Soldier: One less rocket, no shotgun.
Pyro: 10% more bullet vunerability, Degreaser's weaker flame but with no axetinguisher for insta-killing.
Scout: No pistol, Shortstop is weaker than scattergun. (Though I'll admit this one needs nerfing)
Spy: No disguise kit, weaker pistol (Although I prefer the L'tranger anyway ), Spy flickers for longer when bumped into.
Sniper: No headshots, weaker sniper rifle, no secondary.

So other than the Scout (IMO) most of the polycount loadouts are fine.

Disadvantages huh.

Soldier: You shouldn't need more than three rockets to kill someone, as for the shotgun, it's useless and no self respecting soldier should use it anyway.
Pyro: If your not flanking your enemies and forcing them into close combat before they can fire a shot you're dead anyway and at that range the flamethrower is so powerful that reduced damage wwon't do your enemy any good which makes me wonder why you'd bother to use the axe.
Scout: You gave me that one.
Spy: Spies are backstabbing douchebags (or so he says himself) they never use the gun that couldn't kill a scout if all the rounds in the clip ended up in his head. The disquise never works anyway the enemies always know it's you, and to avoid flickeing, stop touching your enemies you shouldn't be doing that anyway.
Sniper: Unless you get blind lucky, or your enemy stands stock still while you patiently wait for your rifle to charge up, you're not going to hit them in the head anyway with how fast everyone moves, except heavies but they're completely useless and you should just let whoever's down there make quick work of him. I'd have to see how much weaker the rifle is, though I doubt it's enough to really matter. And who needs a secondary; if you find someone designed for close quarters (I.E. murdering you, the game is just a glorified rock paper scirssors simulator after all) you're dead whether you have a secondary weapon or not.

 

[archvile93]

archvile93, you do realise that most of the unlockable weapons in the game are NOT better than the originals, only side-grades? The set bonuses are the only thing you can validly complain about on that area, and two of them have balancing drawbacks anyway!

Tell me then, which ones are the sidegrades. Is it the level two flamethrower that's just like the first except now it's a long range and short range weapon? Is the Natasha that slows enemies down and now gives the the heavy the ability to at least pretend he's useful since Sasha is useless in every way? I'd look up the other ones, but the game is updating and doesn't feel like letting me. Also, since your new I figure you should know, unless you quote people they won't know you left messages for them. I only saw this because I was responding to another person and happened to notice this. Oh yeah, and welcome to the escapist.

 

[Zaik]

the demoman needs a rebalance IMO

lulz I just shoot demomen on my team with rockets every time i see them, most of the time they're bad spies. I don't get why spies don't disguise as engineers, seems like every time i play there's like four of them on my team, instead they're always snipers and demomen and pyros.

Edit: also i thought The Direct Hit was BS until i understood what the name actually meant >.>

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Two games worth of content, right. You mean like a few new maps to make up for the fact it only started with about four, and a few new hats that and weapons that I can't use and others can so I either have the option of getting my ass handed to me or paying even more money to get on even footing? Even with the updates, Black Ops still manages to have more. Or do you count stuff that doesn't do anything as valid content (Some hats don't do anything)?

No, I mean 8 major updates that include Free maps, and upgrades for each character, an in game economy, new modes, duelling, the beta and all of which you CAN use FOR FREE. And even if you ignore all of them, the Vanilla Sniper/Spy/Scout/Pyro/Medic/Demoman can easily hold his own against the others.

Oh, and there's also the thriving modding community, Saxton Hale versus, Prop Hunt etc. from the non-Valve side, still free...in fact...it's ALL free. You can just choose to pay for some things if you want them early.

Is it the level two flamethrower that's just like the first except now it's a long range and short range weapon?

See, now you're just belly-aching without bothering to find out. And the Spy not using his pistol? Clearly if you managed to kill people without them, I assure you they were not like me. And nothing - nothing! - like the man loose inside this building!

All the polycount weapons do, like all the other FREELY DROPPABLE OR TRADABLE OR PURCHASABLE weapons do is change your tactics. You still go down to a one-shot from the Spy/Sniper unless you have a specific weapon, and then they just change to a different one-shot.

 

[Neverhoodian]

Disadvantages huh.

Soldier: You shouldn't need more than three rockets to kill someone, as for the shotgun, it's useless and no self respecting soldier should use it anyway.
Pyro: If your not flanking your enemies and forcing them into close combat before they can fire a shot you're dead anyway and at that range the flamethrower is so powerful that reduced damage wwon't do your enemy any good which makes me wonder why you'd bother to use the axe.
Scout: You gave me that one.
Spy: Spies are backstabbing douchebags (or so he says himself) they never use the gun that couldn't kill a scout if all the rounds in the clip ended up in his head. The disquise never works anyway the enemies always know it's you, and to avoid flickeing, stop touching your enemies you shouldn't be doing that anyway.
Sniper: Unless you get blind lucky, or your enemy stands stock still while you patiently wait for your rifle to charge up, you're not going to hit them in the head anyway with how fast everyone moves, except heavies but they're completely useless and you should just let whoever's down there make quick work of him. I'd have to see how much weaker the rifle is, though I doubt it's enough to really matter. And who needs a secondary; if you find someone designed for close quarters (I.E. murdering you, the game is just a glorified rock paper scirssors simulator after all) you're dead whether you have a secondary weapon or not.

Sorry, but I'm going to have disagree with you on a few points:

*I always carry a shotgun with me as a Soldier. I can't tell you how many times it's saved my bacon. I use it quite often against skilled Scouts who can dodge my rockets, and I'll pepper Snipers with it as I'm closing the distance to throw off their aim. Moreover, if you have no rockets in the tube it can be more economic to just gun an enemy down with the shotty than slowly reload your rockets one at at time.

*While it's true the Pyro's primary weapon is devastating at close quarters, the Axestinguisher increases survivability by instantly killing nearly any foe before they can retaliate. Coupled with the Degreaser, it's a combo to be feared.

*I usually don't play Scout, so I have nothing to say here.

*You underestimate the power of the Spy's revolver. There have been many occasions where I've picked off weakened enemies with it from a safe distance instead of braving a guarded sentry nest to backstab them. Speaking of sentries, the revolver is great for taking down buildings sooner. When you sap an Engie's building, try plugging a few rounds into it if its builder isn't nearby. That extra damage is often enough to destroy the building before the Engie can remove the sapper. Finally, it's the only reliable weapon you have when you're cornered. If you run out of cloak or are burning and enemies are chasing you, take out your gun and backpedal furiously, firing as you go. You might be able to take your enemies down with you (or better yet, kill them and escape).

*If they're wielding the default rifle, good Snipers can score headshot kills fairly consistently. Also, Jarate coupled with the Bushwacka can make them surprisingly effective in close combat scenarios. I've killed many overconfident enemies by coating them with pee and crit-killing them.

I'm not defending the Polycount set bonuses in any way, just pointing out my observations.

 

[archvile93]

Two games worth of content, right. You mean like a few new maps to make up for the fact it only started with about four, and a few new hats that and weapons that I can't use and others can so I either have the option of getting my ass handed to me or paying even more money to get on even footing? Even with the updates, Black Ops still manages to have more. Or do you count stuff that doesn't do anything as valid content (Some hats don't do anything)?

No, I mean 8 major updates that include Free maps, and upgrades for each character, an in game economy, new modes, duelling, the beta and all of which you CAN use FOR FREE. And even if you ignore all of them, the Vanilla Sniper/Spy/Scout/Pyro/Medic/Demoman can easily hold his own against the others.

Oh, and there's also the thriving modding community, Saxton Hale versus, Prop Hunt etc. from the non-Valve side, still free...in fact...it's ALL free. You can just choose to pay for some things if you want them early.

Is it the level two flamethrower that's just like the first except now it's a long range and short range weapon?

See, now you're just belly-aching without bothering to find out. And the Spy not using his pistol? Clearly if you managed to kill people without them, I assure you they were not like me. And nothing - nothing! - like the man loose inside this building!

All the polycount weapons do, like all the other FREELY DROPPABLE OR TRADABLE OR PURCHASABLE weapons do is change your tactics. You still go down to a one-shot from the Spy/Sniper unless you have a specific weapon, and then they just change to a different one-shot.

I'm not giving Valve points for content that they had nothing to do with making (mods) and adding a few new maps to get the count up to eight instead of four is barely anything. Just about every multiplayer game I've played has more content. Again Black Ops, more maps: came with fourteen right out of the box, and more game modes a pretty damn good achievement seeing as it only had a two year development time and TF2 had eleven. Also, you're really going to tell me that a weapon I don't get because I didn't pay for it or jump through a bunch of hoops, that's perfect for long range and short range isn't better than the one that only works at short range?

 

[archvile93]

Disadvantages huh.

Soldier: You shouldn't need more than three rockets to kill someone, as for the shotgun, it's useless and no self respecting soldier should use it anyway.
Pyro: If your not flanking your enemies and forcing them into close combat before they can fire a shot you're dead anyway and at that range the flamethrower is so powerful that reduced damage wwon't do your enemy any good which makes me wonder why you'd bother to use the axe.
Scout: You gave me that one.
Spy: Spies are backstabbing douchebags (or so he says himself) they never use the gun that couldn't kill a scout if all the rounds in the clip ended up in his head. The disquise never works anyway the enemies always know it's you, and to avoid flickeing, stop touching your enemies you shouldn't be doing that anyway.
Sniper: Unless you get blind lucky, or your enemy stands stock still while you patiently wait for your rifle to charge up, you're not going to hit them in the head anyway with how fast everyone moves, except heavies but they're completely useless and you should just let whoever's down there make quick work of him. I'd have to see how much weaker the rifle is, though I doubt it's enough to really matter. And who needs a secondary; if you find someone designed for close quarters (I.E. murdering you, the game is just a glorified rock paper scirssors simulator after all) you're dead whether you have a secondary weapon or not.

Sorry, but I'm going to have disagree with you on a few points:

*I always carry a shotgun with me as a Soldier. I can't tell you how many times it's saved my bacon. I use it quite often against skilled Scouts who can dodge my rockets, and I'll pepper Snipers with it as I'm closing the distance to throw off their aim. Moreover, if you have no rockets in the tube it can be more economic to just gun an enemy down with the shotty than slowly reload your rockets one at at time.

*While it's true the Pyro's primary weapon is devastating at close quarters, the Axestinguisher increases survivability by instantly killing nearly any foe before they can retaliate. Coupled with the Degreaser, it's a combo to be feared.

*I usually don't play Scout, so I have nothing to say here.

*You underestimate the power of the Spy's revolver. There have been many occasions where I've picked off weakened enemies with it from a safe distance instead of braving a guarded sentry nest to backstab them. Speaking of sentries, the revolver is great for taking down buildings sooner. When you sap an Engie's building, try plugging a few rounds into it if its builder isn't nearby. That extra damage is often enough to destroy the building before the Engie can remove the sapper. Finally, it's the only reliable weapon you have when you're cornered. If you run out of cloak or are burning and enemies are chasing you, take out your gun and backpedal furiously, firing as you go. You might be able to take your enemies down with you (or better yet, kill them and escape).

*If they're wielding the default rifle, good Snipers can score headshot kills fairly consistently. Also, Jarate coupled with the Bushwacka can make them surprisingly effective in close combat scenarios. I've killed many overconfident enemies by coating them with pee and crit-killing them.

I'm not defending the Polycount set bonuses in any way, just pointing out my observations.

Which shotgun were you using since I puts all the rounds it had in a magazine into a scout who stood stll (AFK) at short range and failed to kill him?

The Axetinguisher only works on a burning enemy. It's faster to just keep burning them then switch to the axe and chase them down.

That won't work too well when there's two other sentry gun waiting in the same room to turn their missles on you, and there always will be. Also, if the enemy is weakened enough that you can kill him with the revolver when at that point anyone with common sense would find a medic or some health kits, the ones that continue to attack are clearly too stupid to be any threat to you anyway, and you could've easily run around him and stabbed him in the back.

If a close quarters enemy gets in close quarters and you hit him in the face with urine and blind him, he'll just spray the room, cutting you down anyway, unless he's dumb and just stands there waiting for the urine to go wear off before he attacks. Also, he'll most likely get you from behind anyway and kill you before you can respond.

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Actually you do need hats. Hats boost stats with no disadvantages at all. It's the same concept as others having better guns. They have an in game advantage I don't have access to. If I want to compete, I need to pay, and I already paid for the game. That sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Also, I don't mind paying for things as long as the price isn't unreasonable. Why would I pay the price of the game for an in game item that was shit out in an hour? Because I need it if I want to stand a chance.

You do stand a chance, actually. With the exception of a few instances, any class can take on any apposing class, with any load-out, and come out on top, regardless of skill level. Only four hats actually affect stats, and that's only when worn in conjuction with other items. Those items have a negative impact. If wear the combination of items that makes the Sniper immune to headshots? You need to equip a sniper rifle that makes it impossible for you to landa head-shot. No class is immune to bullets, anyway - an overcharged sniper shot will take out a Sniper, headshot or not. Scout has to go without his bat. Spy needs to do away with picking his own disguise. No one hat on its own increases stats.

if I don't pay I'll spend more time dead than alive in the game since I just can't compete with players that have better equipment that I'm not allowed to use unless they're the worst players in history, and that doesn't sound very fun.

If you can't bend your tactics around the new play styles then... what are you doing? Since there are only four instances of the stat increasing you mentioned, why not just, y'know... go Heavy and mow them down before they get to you? No class is rendered OP or unstoppable with the minor stat increases. Yes, these items are over-priced - but it has done no harm. These "extra stats" you speak of, only create a situation in which you must work around the problem using teamwork and brains. And they aren't declining gameplay from you, if that extra 25HP is truly that much of a change in gameplay then so what. And since weapons drops are incredibly frequent now (alongside items you unlock with achievements), getting the items through normal play is much easier than you make it out to be.

 

[archvile93]

Actually you do need hats. Hats boost stats with no disadvantages at all. It's the same concept as others having better guns. They have an in game advantage I don't have access to. If I want to compete, I need to pay, and I already paid for the game. That sounds pretty unreasonable to me. Also, I don't mind paying for things as long as the price isn't unreasonable. Why would I pay the price of the game for an in game item that was shit out in an hour? Because I need it if I want to stand a chance.

You do stand a chance, actually. With the exception of a few instances, any class can take on any apposing class, with any load-out, and come out on top, regardless of skill level. Only four hats actually affect stats, and that's only when worn in conjuction with other items. Those items have a negative impact. If wear the combination of items that makes the Sniper immune to headshots? You need to equip a sniper rifle that makes it impossible for you to landa head-shot. No class is immune to bullets, anyway - an overcharged sniper shot will take out a Sniper, headshot or not. Scout has to go without his bat. Spy needs to do away with picking his own disguise. No one hat on its own increases stats.

if I don't pay I'll spend more time dead than alive in the game since I just can't compete with players that have better equipment that I'm not allowed to use unless they're the worst players in history, and that doesn't sound very fun.

If you can't bend your tactics around the new play styles then... what are you doing? Since there are only four instances of the stat increasing you mentioned, why not just, y'know... go Heavy and mow them down before they get to you? No class is rendered OP or unstoppable with the minor stat increases. Yes, these items are over-priced - but it has done no harm. These "extra stats" you speak of, only create a situation in which you must work around the problem using teamwork and brains. And they aren't declining gameplay from you, if that extra 25HP is truly that much of a change in gameplay then so what. And since weapons drops are incredibly frequent now (alongside items you unlock with achievements), getting the items through normal play is much easier than you make it out to be.

Change my play style? Every class has an extremely specialized weapon that's only good for one specific thing, and each class is built for an extremely specific role. How can i change my play style? If you can find players who actually work together, then you are the luckiest person alive. I'd also love to see a sniper beat a half decent pyro in all but the most open battlefields, and I'd love to see a heavy beat anything since he's useless. A gun is only usefull if it hits something and I've seen old flintlock pistols with more accuracy than that shitty minigun. If drops are more common then they still don't appear very often. I played for six hours (at least that's what steam said last time I checked) and never got even one drop.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Just about every multiplayer game I've played has more content.

Just about every other MP game has a lower Metacritic score. If not all of them.
None have more support.

Again Black Ops, more maps: came with fourteen right out of the box, and more game modes a pretty damn good achievement seeing as it only had a two year development time and TF2 had eleven.

And it's a gun-porn pox-ridden remake of all the rest.

Also, you're really going to tell me that a weapon I don't get because I didn't pay for it or jump through a bunch of hoops, that's perfect for long range and short range isn't better than the one that only works at short range?

What I'm trying to drive into your skull is that it doesn't exist.
There are 3 flamethrowers: Flamethrower, Backburner and the Degreaser.
Backburner loses airblast, but does more damage and crits in Back.
Degreaser loses part of the afterburn but switches quicker.

If you can find players who actually work together, then you are the luckiest person alive.

Almost every game I've played on (And I've played on a LOT) have the team working towards the goal by different routes. Possibly the only problem is Spy/Sniper stacking and Medic loss, but then you can deal with that.

Have you actually played the game? Or are you just sitting here complaining, because you don't seem to know very much about the game at all?

 

[archvile93]

Just about every multiplayer game I've played has more content.

Just about every other MP game has a lower Metacritic score. If not all of them.
None have more support.

Again Black Ops, more maps: came with fourteen right out of the box, and more game modes a pretty damn good achievement seeing as it only had a two year development time and TF2 had eleven.

And it's a gun-porn pox-ridden remake of all the rest.

Also, you're really going to tell me that a weapon I don't get because I didn't pay for it or jump through a bunch of hoops, that's perfect for long range and short range isn't better than the one that only works at short range?

What I'm trying to drive into your skull is that it doesn't exist.
There are 3 flamethrowers: Flamethrower, Backburner and the Degreaser.
Backburner loses airblast, but does more damage and crits in Back.
Degreaser loses part of the afterburn but switches quicker.

If you can find players who actually work together, then you are the luckiest person alive.

Almost every game I've played on (And I've played on a LOT) have the team working towards the goal by different routes. Possibly the only problem is Spy/Sniper stacking and Medic loss, but then you can deal with that.

Have you actually played the game? Or are you just sitting here complaining, because you don't seem to know very much about the game at all?

Yes I have, where do you think I learned about the flamethrower that shoots fireballs and can project a stream of flame? Because I fought one. Yeah they work together, as I run around as the medic trying to get the half dead allies to hold still so I can heal them and run into the room guarded by three fully upgraded sentry turrets and die anyway, and then yell at me because it's apperently my fault for not healing them as they rush through there (No I didn't have the ubercharge ready at the time). Also, the only thing that makes TF2 unique is the artstyle and humor.