Teen faces expulsion after brining stun-gun to school to fend off bullies

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Nyaoku

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When I was in school, we just carried a pen or had some sharpened car keys. Sure you have to put some effort into it but stabbing is just as good as a stiletto. I agree that he should have a way to defend himself but a stun gun in a place that probably has issues with someone walking around with a cellphone is a little too forward. Good intentions, bad execution.
 

Heronblade

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Wolverine18 said:
kickyourass said:
The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had
You call THE POLICE. It's their job. The school can deal with small stuff, but threatening a physical attack is a crime.

There is also self defense training, deescaelation training, walking with friends, standing down bullies (most will back off if pushed), switching schools, and MANY other solutions.

In addition to the kid being charged in this case, I'm rather disappointed the mother wasn't charged as well. At the very least child services needs to review her custody, she doesn't appear to be a fit parent. I wonder where the dad is in all this, oh wait, I can probably guess.

I dealt with bullies as kids, a stun gun is not the answer. There are plenty of answers, that isn't one of them.
If he calls the police they won't and can't do a damn thing unless they are RIGHT THERE, RIGHT THEN. He could easily be beaten black and blue multiple times over by the time the authorities arrive, at which point the authorities still can't help if the aggressors have already left.

The kid can't carry a police officer in his backpack, or hire a bodyguard to follow him around. He can't be expected to talk these bullies down any more than you would expect him to stand up to a grumpy Grizzly bear (Its entirely possible to do either, but only if you know exactly what you're doing, and even then the risk of pissing it/them off even more is quite high), and he can't reasonably avoid the bullies in question.

Given the school's reluctance to interfere, a stun gun that is used solely for intimidation is an appropriate response.
 

El Danny

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When I was at secondary school (high school for you guys outside the UK), my friend group was constantly being picked on, I ended up in a fight with one of these guys and nearly broke his nose. When my head-of-year tried to disapline me for it, I calmly explained that my friends had been getting bullied since they came to this school at 11, so I felt my options were rather 'limited'.

He accepted the school hadn't been doing enough so I got off 'scot free', if schools don't do enough too curb bullying than children can't be blamed for the ways they choose to protect themselves and parents for helping protect their children.
 

Cry Wolf

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Fuck school. I got forced out of mine and it was probably the best thing that has happened to me. This kid should leave even if they don't kick him out and give them the finger.

Regnes said:
The media is already involved, they won't expel him, damage control is the school board's priority, they need to save face. The story isn't about a kid bringing a stun gun to school, the story is about schools not doing their jobs.

EDIT:

Also for future reference, news threads should include a link to the story.

http://fox2now.com/2012/05/07/indiana-mom-sends-son-to-school-with-stun-gun-to-confront-bullies/

He's already won because the principal has admitted to asking him to not dress in a homosexual manner and he played the suicide card.
More likely they'll talk up their zero tolerance policies for weapons, the "what if everyone brought one" scenario, make it seem like his fault he was getting bullied and expell him anyway. You can already see the start of it in the article where they say they told him to "tone down" his apparel and that they wish he shouldn't have had to.
 

manic_depressive13

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Ultratwinkie said:
And being beaten can result in reconstructive surgery for your face, which is a very time consuming and painful experience (I been through it). It costs 5,000$ just to fix a broken nose, and you expect him to just take it? There is no way "out" other than to have the media, ACLU, and LGBT community come and defend your ass.

Secondly, its a CIVILIAN TASER. They are VERY DIFFERENT from what the state uses for its cops. Civilian tasers are much lower in power, and can NEVER kill anyone unless you are fighting on the top of a suspended metal beam overlooking the street.
That's really NOT NECESSARY. I am capable of picking up KEY POINTS without the retarded and patronising EMPHASIS.

I wasn't aware of the difference because I live in a comparatively civilised country where we have free healthcare and such weapons are illegal. If "civilian tasers" are so weak, wouldn't they be ineffective? If they are effective, why do the police feel the need to use tasers on such high voltage?

Also, how did you manage to construe my suggestion that his mother pull him out of school instead of give him a weapon as my expecting him to "just take it"?
 

Heronblade

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manic_depressive13 said:
I wasn't aware of the difference because I live in a comparatively civilised country where we have free healthcare and such weapons are illegal. If "civilian tasers" are so weak, wouldn't they be ineffective? If they are effective, why do the police feel the need to use tasers on such high voltage?

Also, how did you manage to construe my suggestion that his mother pull him out of school instead of give him a weapon as my expecting him to "just take it"?
The police use and require a higher voltage because they generally require the target to be completely incapacitated as soon as possible. Civilian stun guns are built around the principle of shocking the target just enough to give them an opportunity to get the hell out of there.

A decent comparison would be comparing the use of a police baton to a swift kick in the nuts. Both can incapacitate an opponent if done properly, but only the former will relatively guarantee that the opponent will stay down for more than a few seconds.
 

Dastardly

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kickyourass said:
If they were genuinely not getting any help through 'proper channels,' I'm not sure what else could have been done. If the kid's not getting any help from the school when large groups of people are threatening to beat him what they hell else could he do but take matters into his own hands? I'm just glad it was only a stun gun.
The school is powerless to get rid of the kids until there's a near-catastrophic event. Even for a fight, they get 10 days home. You might not realize how incredibly hard it is to get someone expelled these days. School funding is tied to enrollment, so if you expel a kid, you're basically taking money away from the whole school. School boards won't stand for that, so they'll overrule a principal more often than not.

But this isn't about parents not getting help through the proper channels. This is about the parents believing it's the school's job to do everything. Now, I believe that in this case there is probably more that could have been done -- provided the kid was reporting the incidents to teachers or administration -- but we're not a law enforcement agency.

Why do parents go after the school instead of going after the parents of the bully? Because you're more likely to get money from a school. Schools would love to get the cops involved on this stuff, but any teacher knows they'll be fired the second they do. School boards (elected officials) don't want their employees bringing bad press.

"Tell the school to do more" is not the same as "We tried everything." Sorry.

The kid was being threatened by 6 people and a 6 on 1 beating is absolutely a life threatening situation. The school wasn't doing anything to protect him for this sort of thing so what else was he supposed to do?
If you have a better solution I'd honestly love to hear it, but I don't see any other options this kid had
So in this crowd of 6 people, he had a stun gun. What if they'd rushed him? Could he stun all six? Or is it more likely that at least one of the kids would have gotten hold of it, and the situation would have escalated? (I'll give you a hint, it's the second.) He's incredibly lucky they backed down (which only serves to prove that they were not determined to kill the kid).

I'm not saying the kid should get bullied. I'm not saying there aren't some things the school could do. I'm saying the parents and kid aren't "trying everything else," and that there is absolutely no excuse for a kid to bring a weapon to school.

It's not even about what the kid would/wouldn't do with the weapon. The kid is making that weapon available to anyone in the school that could take it from him. And the kid is creating a climate in which other people will feel they should have a weapon, too.
 

Dastardly

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Heronblade said:
[If he calls the police they won't and can't do a damn thing unless they are RIGHT THERE, RIGHT THEN. He could easily be beaten black and blue multiple times over by the time the authorities arrive, at which point the authorities still can't help if the aggressors have already left.
What makes teachers any different? If we're not RIGHT THERE, RIGHT THEN, we're taking the word of one over the word of another. Except we don't have the Law on our side. We aren't allowed to detain, apprehend, threaten force, or do anything of the things that cops can do. We're lucky if we can get a suspension to stick, since school boards are notoriously political creatures always trying to appease the public (which is made up of the parents of bullies, too).

Given the school's reluctance to interfere, a stun gun that is used solely for intimidation is an appropriate response.
You want us to bite? Give us some teeth. We can't "interfere" unless it's right under our noses. And we're so crazily understaffed that there's always somewhere unattended, even if it's the damn bathroom. You don't give cops water pistols and jump ropes, and then complain when they can't foil an armed robbery.

But rant aside (it's not targeted at you, I promise, just a general grievance I have), a child bringing a weapon is never "appropriate." Again I ask -- what are the chances one of those six bullies could have gotten the weapon away from him? Or, seeing that he had a weapon, grabbed a rock or something that could do serious damage? It's far more likely that the very presence of a weapon will escalate a situation. He's far beyond lucky that these turds "scattered."

Basically, if these kids were truly a threat worthy of a stun gun, the kid was actually in more danger having brought it. And if they weren't a threat to life or limb, the stun gun was a disproportionate response. Either way, it's a non-solution.

I reject the notion that this parent has tried "everything." (At the same time, I'm not saying the school did everything in its power, because I don't know.)

Loonyyy said:
You are legally entitled a right to self defense. Why is it that schoolchildren are not?
Because schools aren't law enforcement agencies, and teachers aren't cops. It's up to the parents to get the police involved, not the school. Our hands are pretty well tied.
 

Heronblade

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Dastardly said:
So in this crowd of 6 people, he had a stun gun. What if they'd rushed him? Could he stun all six? Or is it more likely that at least one of the kids would have gotten hold of it, and the situation would have escalated? (I'll give you a hint, it's the second.) He's incredibly lucky they backed down (which only serves to prove that they were not determined to kill the kid).
Actually, the most likely scenario is exactly what happened.

Bullies get off on the idea of having an individual completely at their mercy. Once a target demonstrates an ability to fight back, far more often than not, they are left alone, at least for the time being.

Obligatory qualifying statement: Please note that the aforementioned piece of pseudo psychology is linked fairly exclusively to schoolyard bullies and should not be extended to other situations, nor should it be taken as a universal rule within that area either.


Dastardly said:
What makes teachers any different? If we're not RIGHT THERE, RIGHT THEN, we're taking the word of one over the word of another. Except we don't have the Law on our side. We aren't allowed to detain, apprehend, threaten force, or do anything of the things that cops can do. We're lucky if we can get a suspension to stick, since school boards are notoriously political creatures always trying to appease the public (which is made up of the parents of bullies, too).

Given the school's reluctance to interfere, a stun gun that is used solely for intimidation is an appropriate response.
You want us to bite? Give us some teeth. We can't "interfere" unless it's right under our noses. And we're so crazily understaffed that there's always somewhere unattended, even if it's the damn bathroom. You don't give cops water pistols and jump ropes, and then complain when they can't foil an armed robbery.

But rant aside (it's not targeted at you, I promise, just a general grievance I have), a child bringing a weapon is never "appropriate." Again I ask -- what are the chances one of those six bullies could have gotten the weapon away from him? Or, seeing that he had a weapon, grabbed a rock or something that could do serious damage? It's far more likely that the very presence of a weapon will escalate a situation. He's far beyond lucky that these turds "scattered."

Basically, if these kids were truly a threat worthy of a stun gun, the kid was actually in more danger having brought it. And if they weren't a threat to life or limb, the stun gun was a disproportionate response. Either way, it's a non-solution.

I reject the notion that this parent has tried "everything." (At the same time, I'm not saying the school did everything in its power, because I don't know.)
I don't blame the school, much less the teachers. The school board can't do a damn thing without getting yelled at by both the government and parents that haven't had kids affected by bullying, and the teachers... lets just say I'm well aware how shorthanded they are. I gripe fairly often about our educational system, but I'm well aware that the shortcomings have far more to do with excessive restrictions and lack of funding/resources rather than incompetence.

Regardless, this still leaves us with a serious situation that has no obvious way out. The kid can't directly defend himself, and the kid's parents have no way to defend him, or even make sure the aggressors get punished for the action.

In a case like this, assuming we're not missing crucial details, the only options appear to be either to simply let the kid take a beating as often as the bullies can get away with it, or go outside the system to find a better solution. A stun gun might not specifically be the right answer, but I for one will ALWAYS pick the latter category.
 

Dastardly

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Heronblade said:
Actually, the most likely scenario is exactly what happened.

Bullies get off on the idea of having an individual completely at their mercy. Once a target demonstrates an ability to fight back, far more often than not, they are left alone, at least for the time being.

Obligatory qualifying statement: Please note that the aforementioned piece of pseudo psychology is linked fairly exclusively to schoolyard bullies and should not be extended to other situations, nor should it be taken as a universal rule within that area either.
We'll see. The kid just changed the game. He put weapons on the table, clear as day, and bullies can use them, too. See, next time, they'll bring more people. And, because they know he has a weapon, they're not going to give him warning or mercy.

And they'll do it off school grounds, most likely.
 

Grey Day for Elcia

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ITT: a load of people believing every word of the OP.

Seriously, when will people learn to not just instantly believe something they read? I'm half tempted to create a fake but realistic story a week or two from now, let it go for a bit and then reveal the truth to all the knee-jerkers.

I'm no conspiracy nut or anything of the type, but if the government did wanna cover shit up or make us believe things, it sure would be easy--just run a news story or, better yet, post it in a forum.

P.S.: Escapist, I'm adding every brand the captcha gives me to my "never support again" list.
 

viranimus

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Somewhere in there, the mother should be brought up on charges not the least of which should be corruption of a minor in convincing her child it was ok to bring a potentially lethal weapon into a public school with any sort of intention to use it, in defense or otherwise.
 

Dags90

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The obvious solution to all of this bullying is to loosen gun regulations. People will think twice about picking on someone if they think they're packing heat!

Sincerely, the NRA.

P.S. Buy more guns.
 

Heronblade

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Grey Day for Elcia said:
ITT: a load of people believing every word of the OP.

Seriously, when will people learn to not just instantly believe something they read? I'm half tempted to create a fake but realistic story a week or two from now, let it go for a bit and then reveal the truth to all the knee-jerkers.

I'm no conspiracy nut or anything of the type, but if the government did wanna cover shit up or make us believe things, it sure would be easy--just run a news story or, better yet, post it in a forum.

P.S.: Escapist, I'm adding every brand the captcha gives me to my "never support again" list.
I cannot speak for everyone else here having checked the story before saying anything, but the article partly quoted in the OP is real enough.

CNN's version of the story. [http://www.cnn.com/2012/05/07/us/indiana-bullied-teen/index.html]

As for using the media to run a conspiracy, sure you could do it. Good luck getting both NBC and Fox to run side by side though.
 

viranimus

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Ultratwinkie said:
viranimus said:
Somewhere in there, the mother should be brought up on charges not the least of which should be corruption of a minor in convincing her child it was ok to bring a potentially lethal weapon into a public school with any sort of intention to use it, in defense or otherwise.
Jesus christ its a CIVILIAN TASER. How many times must I say that? Its not lethal, its low voltage can NEVER be. The power of a civilian taser hurts, but never kills.
You can say it as many times as you wish, it still is not the only factor involved.

This is taking a taser powered by a 9 volt battery
[link]http://budk.com/Self-Defense/100000-Volt-Stun-Gun?foundby=cross-sell[/link]
...into an area where students are far too often pumped up on drugs like ritalin that directly puts strain on the patients heart or various other unforeseeable circumstances that can turn a non lethal weapon into a lethal one. Hence why In my original post I said a "potentially" lethal weapon.

But it still does not matter. The mother should be charged with a litany of parental irresponsibility related charges for sending her child to school with a weapon, regardless if it was a lethal one or not because it is still a weapon.