The Big Picture: Combat Evolved?

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Nomanslander

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Feb 21, 2009
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Honestly? Who gives a shit about Halo, and especially its story (except for the die hard fans)?
Halo is about the gameplay, which even for a hater (yo) is actually pretty good. There isn't any real depth to this series, all the drama is forced and comes across as melo-drama, and if you really want a game similar to the look of Halo except better written go play Mass Effect.

You know what the biggest problem with Halo is? There are some people that just don't like it, and unfortunately a lot that do. I don't like Halo, even the gameplay in the end seems a bit weak and archaic.

Do I want Peter Jackson to take up his time developing the movie? Fuck no! That would be such a waste of time considering there's so many better properties out there.

As for your video here Bob and the notion that Halo is secretly a racist game? Well Bob, once again I have to give you props with your attempts at stirring things up considering the lovely 21 pages of Halo fanboy wrath you have induced.

Personally, I say good job, and stay away from shit I like.

Oh and Nintendo can go suck an ass through a straw.....>=)
 

TheBritish

The really, quite jolly rascal
Nov 12, 2009
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I wasn't gonna post here, but I think it's worth it to say... I enjoyed this... please don't stop doing them?

As for those arguing against it... I don't believe that Bob is actually saying "This is the point of the games!" he's pointing out various forms of imagery which can be interpreted as such. The same way that when reading Shakespeare we analyse the various meanings he could've had for saying "Glorious sun of York". These are tiny things, they may be incidental and they may be purposeful, but either way they're "interesting".

It's also pretty hard to deny the comparisons to the Spartans of Ancient Greece and the expanding Persian army. I find it hard to believe this wasn't purposeful for the same reason I don't consider the references to "Mjolnir" Battle Armour to be incidental. These choices were made after months, or years of consideration. Not everything is "reading too much into the source material".

There's actually a lot I like about the Halo games and in particularly, their games and stories. Master Chief is a much more interesting character however when he's a singular idol-like figure. when you start putting him alongside six other guys who dress exactly the same, move exactly the same and share the same idealistic views, we're into the same territory as the Starship Troopers book (not the movie, that had different purposes).

I like people debating things rationally, but I don't like people suggesting that MovieBob is an "idiot and a buffoon" for pointing out his observations on a game. He has made observations, explained them and interpreted them. If you don't agree, that's fine. Make your own video and link us all to it.

(Also to those people saying "There's a legitimate reason given in the book for the people's eyes turning blue!" and similar such things... just because there's a legitimate reason for something, doesn't mean it doesn't have it's own designs. Someone sat down, thought for a while and decided that Spartan's eyes should go blue. They made a decision, just the same as Shakespeare decided to use the name Caliban. Nothing is truly incidental, but don't act like everything that can be explained has no purpose.)

Apologies for the extended rant, but I feel sorry for Bob. Then again, he did pick a fight with the most vocal groups of videogame fandom :)
 

Zaverexus

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Jul 5, 2010
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Casting all the interesting analysis aside I have to say: sorry Escapist, but those faces are already getting old
 

Plum

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Nov 10, 2010
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I have to say, that this is a completely stupid look at Halo. First, the covenant are trying to destroy the world, the solar system, and everything else, so they are obviously bad. Also, you obviously haven't played Halo 2 or 3, because parts of the covenant do join the Humans (making them more diverse). And one final thing, it was never stated that the covenant were slaved into fighting for the prophets. I don't think you really know what you're talking about...
 

Plum

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UnbakedParrot" post="6.243904.8891047 said:
I felt that I had to create an account just to comment on this poor excuse for a rant.
[/quote

Same here.
 

loc978

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Sep 18, 2010
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Whew, the vitriol of the fanboys is a little hard to bear here... and a vast majority of folks who posted in the last 21 pages completely missed Bob's point. It's not about the intended message of Halo so much as the cultural bias of its writers... and the writers of most generic shooters these days.

Also, before Bungie was a much-exploited division of Microsoft (which I know they're not anymore, but 7 years of damage is already done), they already had a much better-realized shooter universe made. The Halo idea fell apart when the funding went, and the Frankenstein-esque reconstruction that was finally released really falls short of the original intention for the series.
 

crimson sickle2

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Sep 30, 2009
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I never saw that side of Halo, so thanks Movie Bob for giving us all a lesson on symbolism. The episode itself, while interesting, did kinda meander about a little. Still, a good show, just keep the episode moving.
 

Internet Kraken

Animalia Mollusca Cephalopada
Mar 18, 2009
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loc978 said:
Whew, the vitriol of the fanboys is a little hard to bear here... and a vast majority of folks who posted in the last 21 pages completely missed Bob's point. It's not about the intended message of Halo so much as the cultural bias of its writers... and the writers of most generic shooters these days.
No, we didn't miss his point. We did realize that he wasn't saying Bungie are being intentionally racist, but rather that this was a result of a subtle cultural bias that nobody has really acknowledged. However, this is still pure bullshit. Even if said cultural bias is as prevalent as Movie Bob claims (I would disagree), Halo is a terrible game to use to support said argument considering it has you teaming up with aliens.

Seriously, you can say there is a hidden meaning behind almost anything when you only focus on small details. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.244165-Metroid-represents-everything-wrong-about-our-treatment-of-the-enviornment] Which is rather silly coming from a show called "The Big Pciture".
militaryspartan said:
Anyone else find it interesting that this vid has already been pulled from the front page?
Bit surprised by this as well. I figured the Escapist would leave it up on the front as long as possible the generate more controversy.
 

t3hmaniac

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Mar 22, 2010
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Internet Kraken said:
Seriously, you can say there is a hidden meaning behind almost anything when you only focus on small details. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.244165-Metroid-represents-everything-wrong-about-our-treatment-of-the-enviornment#8892637] Which is rather silly coming from a show called "The Big Pciture".
Is it ironic or coincidental?
 
Aug 21, 2008
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I think MovieBob is a politically correct pseudo intellectual who has very little understanding of the concepts he bandies around. He's a games critic, not a cultural commentator. Hell, he probably doesn't know anything about world history other than the points that cause him the most butthurt on a personal level. Typical lefty tosspot.
 

Nathan Sanchez

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Jul 29, 2010
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I'm so glad the Escapist is run by crazy people. Otherwise, we wouldn't get stuff like this. Awesome show, Bob! Keep 'em coming.
 

ZombieGenesis

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Apr 15, 2009
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Ouch, Bob, much as I love ya, you really could have picked a better opening topic.
There's a very simple, practical explination to cover all the points in this video.

It's a VIDEO GAME.
Enemies are diverse because no variation in enemies is boring.
Allies are copy/pasted because players need to be able to recognise friendlies.

So yeah... maybe next time throw some Overthinker style rantings up and have another go? Heck, why not do an episode on why the Comics Code Authority was a warning against whats going on in the Gaming news right now? You know you want to :)
 

ProtoChimp

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Feb 8, 2010
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I like Bob and all but this new show ooks like most of his fans are going to lose all repect for him. Why? Wait until he talks about Nintendo. Bob will somehow try to make it sound like Nintendo created the earth in 7 days because he's a MASSIVE nintendo fanboy. Don't believe me, watch his Metroid episode of game overthinker and just watch the bullshit he comes up with to defend other M.
 

Crypter

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Jul 8, 2009
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While on the surface I can see your points I think your perhaps negative connotations of the themes in Halo are largely due to your lack of knowledge about the franchise. You're right the Spartan program is pure facist escapism. Spartan II's are kidnapped at childhood and then trained and augmented only to be sent into missions where most die. Finally they are ironically abandoned as a project because despite being exactly what they should be there aren't enough of them to turn the tide of war, cheaper, more expendable Spartan III's are created to better serve the whole.

Despite the player being thrust into these boots as the protagonist (or ones' like them in their less abused brethren the ODST) Spartans aren't liked by the rest of humanity, feared, pitied, used and perhaps heroes of the moment the authors of Halo take pains to subtly point out that their inception is a tragic one borne (worse still) in the midst of an internal human struggle not the war with the Covenant.

As for the diverse alien races being the enemy while the uniform protagonists being the heroes I think you're missing the roots of the game in Marathon and the general FPS / gaming enemies rules. Simply put if you have more than one enemy the little ones are numerous and weak the big ones are large and powerful and the medium ones' are wily and smart. Giving them bright colours and distinctive looks is about allowing the player to identify threat and pick targets accordingly.

It is of course possible to argue that all games that have multiple enemies of differing shapes and sizes and form a 'jabbering horde' show a certain amount of disdain for mixed communities as an underlying theme and that all similar looking human armed forces sent to destroy or are besieged by said forces represent the stalwart but ultimately stagnant human species but then I think you'd have to look at media as a whole and not gaming or a game in particular to make your points valid as an exposure of a series of prejudices underlying narrative creation.

Additionally I always found the breadth of Halos' human forces to be fairly wide, especially if you listen to the thousands of lines of incidental dialogue, of course you'd have to play the game a lot to see that.

I think what you have is a dislike for Halo based on an initial impression and despite dipping your toes into Reach (which isn't the best game for character or anything in the single player campaign when compared to Halo 1 or ODST) you've found a bland underbelly of repititious firefights, ham-fisted dialogue and dubious narrative direction. This is a fair assessment, largely because Bungies' swan song was about fighting in space for a while and the best damned customisable, recordable and fun multiplayer setup you could have (at least that's how the fans see it I'm a mouse and keyboard person myself so the multiplayer doesn't appeal to me that much :S).

I agree that the elements you describe are for all intents and purposes able to be interpreted as you have however Halo is about the vast and far reaching universe not the campaign and not the single player. Listen to I love bees, read Contact Harvest that's where the themes of Halo really lie. The Halo games are what Bungie makes money doing, the Halo universe, its depth and complexity are what Bungie loves telling. An ill-fated ownership by Micro$oft and exclusivity to XBOX left them with a juggernaut they couldn't control but had to service; multiplayer. Leading to diminishing returns on the narrative of the campaign which eventually moved to books as a medium of getting the big picture out to fans.

You basically came in at the end of the franchise and looked around and said: "Meh" which is entirely understandable but imagine that a few years ago there are probably people who did that to Star Wars Episode 3 and have since decided not to watch 4, 5 and 6 not read the extended universe novels and abandon Star Wars as a franchise because Episode 3 had a preposterous and funny Vader ending, most people would say: "Don't be so short-sighted, give it a chance."

So Bob:

http://www.ilovebees.com/humptydumpty.html

Listen to them, if you get to the end and like what you heard, read:

http://www.amazon.com/Halo-Contact-Harvest-Joseph-Staten/dp/0765354713/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289431918&sr=8-1

I know, I know, I'm hammering it home a little hard here but you just published a video that likened Halo and perhaps games in general to being anti-multicultural and a little bit fascist, I don't think I'm way off base if, loving WW2 and ancient history and Halo as much as I do, I try and educate you to why I think you might be wrong. The first link only requires you to listen to what is ostensibly a long radio play. If you get stuck in and still think your views are spot on, by all means stand by them.

Prefacing that video with the idea you're not well versed in Halo has set you up for some headaches and the bonus for you is that if you get stuck in and change your mind you're all the braver for re-evaluating and seriously, how many people on the internet get to come back from a faux pas of any description, intentional or not?
 

Del-Toro

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Aug 6, 2008
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So he's basically calling the humans in Halo a bunch of fascists, and accusing Bungie of promoting racial purity, intentionally or not.

Actually, a degree of "fascism" is the type of thing one might reasonably expect when circumstances are like those the humans face in Halo. Think about it; an alien "coalition" is waging a war of annihilation against humanity, and it is taking all of the UNSC's resources and more to fight a losing war against a seemingly unstoppable force, in which defeat means extinction. Now, an author who was trying to make a point about the sanctity of diversity, pluralism and individuality would contrive some roundabout way in which these qualities would win humanity the war, because they embraced diversity while the already diverse Covenant tried to force assimiliation amongst it's members. In reality, however, those sacred values are the last thing a species in those circumstances would want, ever. The war in Halo easily qualifies, for the UNSC, as what is called "total war". In such a war, a combatant nation's entire agricultural and industrial capacity, not to mention crippling amounts of manpower, are committed to the war effort (both world wars count as this). For a war like this to even be possible to win, everyone has to be on the same page, if you have a bunch of protestors trying to fight some percieved inequality, by blocking roads or rioting or something, then the entire species is worse off for that. If the species is going to have to survive, the unions are going to have to shut the hell up.

TLDR; No shit the halo humans are fascists, they have to channel all the power at the enemy that's literally trying to genocide them instead of trying to protect diversity.
 

ReiverCorrupter

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Jun 4, 2010
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Del-Toro said:
So he's basically calling the humans in Halo a bunch of fascists, and accusing Bungie of promoting racial purity, intentionally or not.

Actually, a degree of "fascism" is the type of thing one might reasonably expect when circumstances are like those the humans face in Halo. Think about it; an alien "coalition" is waging a war of annihilation against humanity, and it is taking all of the UNSC's resources and more to fight a losing war against a seemingly unstoppable force, in which defeat means extinction. Now, an author who was trying to make a point about the sanctity of diversity, pluralism and individuality would contrive some roundabout way in which these qualities would win humanity the war, because they embraced diversity while the already diverse Covenant tried to force assimiliation amongst it's members. In reality, however, those sacred values are the last thing a species in those circumstances would want, ever. The war in Halo easily qualifies, for the UNSC, as what is called "total war". In such a war, a combatant nation's entire agricultural and industrial capacity, not to mention crippling amounts of manpower, are committed to the war effort (both world wars count as this). For a war like this to even be possible to win, everyone has to be on the same page, if you have a bunch of protestors trying to fight some percieved inequality, by blocking roads or rioting or something, then the entire species is worse off for that. If the species is going to have to survive, the unions are going to have to shut the hell up.

TLDR; No shit the halo humans are fascists, they have to channel all the power at the enemy that's literally trying to genocide them instead of trying to protect diversity.
Agreed. I said as much earlier, as have many other people.
Not to mention, the fact that the Arbiter and Elites team up with the Humans in 2 and 3 in order to win makes it rather hard to say that the game is rabidly anti-diversity.

Movie Bob was clearly trying to make something controversial without putting the least bit of thought or research into it.
 

ultrachicken

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Dec 22, 2009
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Akalabeth said:
ultrachicken said:
Moviebob, have you played or understood halo 2 and 3s campaigns (this sentence isn't meant to be derogatory)? The covenant aren't bad guys, they're a bunch of good people who have been lied to by prophets, and are being manipulated. They think that activating the rings will bring them to heaven, when actually it will kill them all. They're simply mislead. Also, the elites join up with the humans later on, anyways.
So how many human civilians can a covenant soldier kill before he stops being "good people"?
*Sigh*

Stop taking quotes out of context. I said they were good people who were misled.