The Dark Souls PC version controversy.

[Stavros Dimou]

Here is a new unique and unexplainable thing: The PC version of the game is only playable for countries where Microsoft supports XBOX LIVE thanks to the GFWL integration.

That leaves out dozens of countries that Steam supports,including Romania, Bulgaria, China, Cyprus, Egypt, Israel,and basically more than half of the world,as Xbox Live and Games For Windows Live is only available to 35 countries out of Earth's 193 countries.

Why on Earth they decided the PC version of the game should only be playable on countries where Microsoft supports Xbox Live is out of my comprehension.
But even if GFWL will avoid someone from playing the game if he lives in these countries,the publisher didn't bothered to inform Steam to not sell the game on these countries,so there are people buying the game,waiting for it to get downloaded and installed,only to be greeted with a screen telling them they can't play the game from their country.

 

[Jimmy T. Malice]

I think they've made up for every 'problem' with the PC release by releasing the Artorias content several months before it reaches console.

 

[yuval152]

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That dosen't mean steam is switching to linux, they are making it multiplayform and they won't switch for a simple reason: huge loss of money, windows is the "shit" right now. and there's no chance EVER that the entire steam libary will be compatible with linux that will mean all of the develepoers from all of the companies reworking on their games.

And linux only supports L4D2, so let's all go to linux to gain 10 extra frames *skips*,I highly doubt that companies like EA and 2K or other companies will switch to linux.

So like I said before:

 

[Stavros Dimou]

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That dosen't mean steam is switching to linux, they won't switch for a simple reason: huge loss of money, windows is the "shit". and there's no chance EVER that the entire steam libary will be compatible with linux that will mean all of the develepoers from all of the companies reworking on their games.

And linux only supports L4D2, so let's all go to linux to gain 10 extra frames *skips*,I highly doubt that companies like EA and 2K or other companies will switch to linux.

So like I said before:

Yeah but most pc gamers doesn't like Win8 at all and prefer to pass,and wait to see if Win9 will be good. Many people are saying that if this "Metro" thing keeps being on Windows versions after Win8,Win7 will be their last Windows OS,and they will keep it as long as Microsoft supports it.

The thing though isn't only the GUI itself,but the fact that Microsoft will introduce a closed "App Store" like Apple has for the Macs,making the future of platforms such as Steam or Origin questionable.

 

[Ryank1908]

All I've been hearing from PC gamers about Dark souls is constant whining, "Boo hoo, it's 30 fps, it's unplayable!"

Seriously, some people just need to grow up. It's not some god damned conspiracy to sabotage PC gaming, and it sounds crazy if you think it is. It's just 30 fps, console players deal with it all the time, we don't gush tears of blood when something doesn't come in 60 fps.

This pisses me off to no end, I'm an actual Dark Souls fan, and these people balling their eyes out after From Software took the time to actually MAKE a port for them, after thousands of petitions saying "We want the game! We'll play it! WE PROMISE!" has the potential to ruin From Software's reputation and finances for the rest of us.

I seriously hope that, if this continues, the PC wont see another port for a Souls game again, I think all the crying has proven they just plain don't deserve it.

So whenever a game comes out that quite frankly stinks of lazy development and has flaws all over the shop, we should just be thankful that they made it? That is one of the most absurd things I've ever heard. If Dark Souls came out with issues like this on the console, it wouldn't have fucking sold.

 

[yuval152]

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My point is that gamers will use what game companies support, be it windows or linux we don't have a choice, no matter how superior linux is, windows will lead because companies will support it and by now we all know that microsoft gives "dirty money" to certain people.

I won't lie if linux will have the same game compabilities as windows and microsoft will continue their bullshit, I will attempt to change to linux(It's only for computer pros so I might not know how to make it work) but that's only if they will supports the same games.

And about windows not supporting steam, It will never happen because steam is a software as much as your antivirus is and can be used on any future windows, but if steam will be somehow banned then it is bullshit.

But for now we can't know anything we have to wait for the future to tell us.

 

[Krantos]

Well Microsoft has enough cash to pay for dirty deals.

Why yes they do.

Wait. Are you talking about exclusivity rights and DLC release date argeements?

..um... not to shatter your fragile world-view, but those aren't dirty deals. Those are 100% legit. You might not like them (I certainly don't), but you can't really suggest they're illegal or morally wrong. They're just business agreements.

MS will pay company X to release on their console first/only. MS pays them a nice amount. That's a transaction. It's to compensate for any potential sales the agreement might lose them. If it were in some way illegal, they wouldn't speak about it as freely as they do.

As for morally? Well, while I don't like exclusivity, it's purely out of not being able to play certain games. I would hardly call that a moral wrong. You'd have to have a pretty sensitive moral code to be offended by not being able to play games.

 

[Yopaz]

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That dosen't mean steam is switching to linux, they are making it multiplayform and they won't switch for a simple reason: huge loss of money, windows is the "shit" right now. and there's no chance EVER that the entire steam libary will be compatible with linux that will mean all of the develepoers from all of the companies reworking on their games.

And linux only supports L4D2, so let's all go to linux to gain 10 extra frames *skips*,I highly doubt that companies like EA and 2K or other companies will switch to linux.

So like I said before:

So the fact that Gabe Newell doesn't want to continue working with Windows doesn't mean anything? The fact that he doesn't want to support it doesn't mean anything?

The reason they don't want to work on the Windows 8 platform is in part because in one of the versions of Windows 8 the Windows store will be the only way to install games or other kinds of software and they will take 30% of the price. So you're right, this is about money. Gabe Newell doesn't want Microsoft taking 30% from their sales.

So you have it. Valve have confirmed better performance, Valve says they are working on getting Linux compatibility on their entire game library of 2500 games, Gabe Newell saying Windows 8 will be a disaster, Gabe Newell says he wants to move to Linux and Gabe Newell having to give up a good share of their profit to Microsoft. I'm not saying this is a confirmation that it will happen, I'm just saying it's not really as unrealistic as you make it out to be.

Also I think you need to work on your math. Left 4 Dead was running at 270 fps in Windows and 315 in Linux, that's a difference 45 not 10. That means there's the difference in performance comes to 14%, which can shift the balance for those who just barely meet the recommended specs.

 

[malestrithe]

What controversy?

It is a bunch of whiny people complaining about all aspects of this thing. They complained about it not being on PC. Then they complained about it not being on the proper platform. Then they complain about frame rate issues. Now they are complaining that From Software did not think of implementing this "fix." Give me a break gamers.

Also spare me rebuttals. This is not the first time I've responded this way. So far, you have not convinced me that I'm wrong. All that your whining at did was reaffirm my position.

 

[yuval152]

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Gabe also called the PS3 a distar, and now he's multiplatforming with it, we can't hold him accountable for those words.(we can but you know what I mean)

and:


1)where does it say that valve is working on making the entire game libary compatible?

2)I was being sarcastic about the whole frames thing.

And here's the biggest thing:

Windows currently owns 92.23% of the desktop PC market, and linux is only 1.05%, valve will not migrate to linux, they might make it multiplatform but it will never be their main platform and you can't know maybe windows will drop the 30% from sales, thing is we can't have the answers now, right now neither of us can be proven wrong/right because we are talking about the future.

 

[Yopaz]

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Gabe also called the PS3 a distar, and now he's multiplatforming with it, we can't hold him accountable for those words.(we can but you know what I mean)

and:


1)where does it say that valve is working on making the entire game libary compatible?

2)I was being sarcastic about the whole frames thing.

And here's the biggest thing:

Windows currently owns 92.23% of the desktop PC market, and linux is only 1.05%, valve will not migrate to linux, they might make it multiplatform but it will never be their main platform and you can't know maybe windows will drop the 30% from sales, thing is we can't have the answers now, right now neither of us can be proven wrong/right because we are talking about the future.

And as he mentioned in one of the articles I posted (I am guessing you didn't even glance at either) was that the reason for this is that there's not enough support for games there. The gamers will follow the games. That's why people buy consoles, I think that can make people change to a free OS.

The reason he said the PS3 was a disaster was that it was very restrictive and wouldn't let them work with the degree of freedom they get on the PC platform, just compare the console version of Team Fortress 2 to the PC version if you don't believe me. However Sony and Valve worked things out and became a little less restrictive while the Xbox 360 became more restrictive. He has more recently said that MicroSoft need to lower their restrictions and make things more open.


Now you have made one point about money and that most people use Windows. However there aren't that many using Windows 8, and the number probably wont grow very quickly. They wont lose much by not working with Windows 8. If they also announce that all newer games from Valve will be functional with Linux then there are a lot who are willing to change because of that.

You have mentioned one reason why this is laughably unrealistic using money. I have mentioned money, politics and performance. I can see how you think it wont happen, but do you honestly think it's laughably unrealistic?

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Also spare me rebuttals. This is not the first time I've responded this way. So far, you have not convinced me that I'm wrong. All that your whining at did was reaffirm my position.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

Shocking, really.

The thing is, it's not a bad port! It's at worst Average. I can understand something being "bad" because it's glitchy. I can understand something being "bad" because the controls don't work. I can even understand something being "bad" because it plays too much like it was meant for consoles, yet this isn't bad at all, it's the exact same game for all systems!

This isn't complaining about something bad, it's just entitlement at it's very core. 30 fps isn't slow at all, it's average.

I seriously pray From Software learns from their mistakes and just tries to avoid the PC market like the plague. The last thing that company needs is to earn a bad reputation and have their series ruined by some people too entitled to accept any meal that doesn't come with a silver spoon for them to eat it with.

Are you fucking kidding me? This has got to be one of the most comical posts to grace these forums yet. This is not charity, you know. They identified a market, and attempted to capitalize on that market with a rushed, sloppy port. And you're right...it's not a bad port. It's a fucking atrocious port. How about the next time something gets ported to your console, it gets ported at Wii resolutions, with Wii textures. That'd be alright, right? It'd be entitled to want anything better. And you need to play with a Wii controller too, they can't be fussed to adapt it to the X-Box or PS3 control scheme. And it'll use the most godawful DRM imaginable, or whatever the console equivalent of DRM is these days. And they'll only ask you for a little bit of a higher cost than the Wii version too, for all the special perks you're getting. Say thank you! Say thank you for the amazing port!

You're like a restaurant owner that calls a customer entitled because he found a cockroach in his soup. You guys need to let that fucking word go. I know it's SUPER EXCITING and you got that word a day thrill up in your pants the first time you saw it, and thought "Holy shit, I am going to use that in every single argument from now until the day I die, because it sounds authoritative and compelling, even though I'm not fully cognizant of what it means or what the implications are", but it's making you sound daft. Find a new word.

I really hope they avoid the PC market like a plague too, btw. They're too fucking incompetent to develop for it, apparently.

 

[yuval152]

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Gabe also called the PS3 a distar, and now he's multiplatforming with it, we can't hold him accountable for those words.(we can but you know what I mean)

and:


1)where does it say that valve is working on making the entire game libary compatible?

2)I was being sarcastic about the whole frames thing.

And here's the biggest thing:

Windows currently owns 92.23% of the desktop PC market, and linux is only 1.05%, valve will not migrate to linux, they might make it multiplatform but it will never be their main platform and you can't know maybe windows will drop the 30% from sales, thing is we can't have the answers now, right now neither of us can be proven wrong/right because we are talking about the future.

And as he mentioned in one of the articles I posted (I am guessing you didn't even glance at either) was that the reason for this is that there's not enough support for games there. The gamers will follow the games. That's why people buy consoles, I think that can make people change to a free OS.

The reason he said the PS3 was a disaster was that it was very restrictive and wouldn't let them work with the degree of freedom they get on the PC platform, just compare the console version of Team Fortress 2 to the PC version if you don't believe me. However Sony and Valve worked things out and became a little less restrictive while the Xbox 360 became more restrictive. He has more recently said that MicroSoft need to lower their restrictions and make things more open.


Now you have made one point about money and that most people use Windows. However there aren't that many using Windows 8, and the number probably wont grow very quickly. They wont lose much by not working with Windows 8. If they also announce that all newer games from Valve will be functional with Linux then there are a lot who are willing to change because of that.

You have mentioned one reason why this is laughably unrealistic using money. I have mentioned money, politics and performance. I can see how you think it wont happen, but do you honestly think it's laughably unrealistic?

Yes, if they make steam linux & mac exclusive they lose me as a customer, no way that I will have a linux partition just for steam.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

Yes, if they make steam linux & mac exclusive they lose me as a customer, no way I will have a linux partition just for steam.

The Steam/Linux business is just speculation. A lot of it has to do with the fact Windows 8 looks like its being designed with tablets as its primary focus and its own proprietary store, and fear that Microsoft is going to look to make Windows a closed platform.

 

[Ralen-Sharr]

I bought Dark Souls on Steam, and I have to say that the M&Kb controls are not very good. All the tips give you the instructions for a console controller, so you have to try to fumble through the keymap or just hit buttons to try to figure out WTF it is they want you to do.

After playing a bit and getting semi used to the controls, my biggest problem now is that when turning the camera with the mouse instead of smoothly moving it's like it jumps to preset positions, giving it a very jerky look. I knocked down my mouse to 200 DPI and it makes it a little more tolerable, but it's still annoying.

I've read that the game is great if you have a console style controller however. Unfortunate that they couldn't get the mouse working right.

Oh yeah, and some of the keybinds had me opening the steam overlay in the middle of a fight. That never ended well.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Here is a new unique and unexplainable thing: The PC version of the game is only playable for countries where Microsoft supports XBOX LIVE thanks to the GFWL integration.

Simple answer is, a GFWL version of a game is very close to an xbox360 version of a game.
It makes porting easy, that's all.

But, at the end of the day, it's still a dumb choice. GFWL doesn't work properly even in countries that have it.
It's an old complaint though. People were headdesking way back when they had said "it's going to be on GFWL because we don't know how else to deliver it in a timely manner."