The Dark Souls PC version controversy.
- Thread starter Stavros Dimou
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You're right, I did quote the wrong person. Sorry maelstrithe, I usually don't derp up quotes like that.Witty Name Here said:
I don't even know why I'm bothering to respond to this. Quite typically, you're lashing out with name calling and ad hominem attacks and scrambling to occupy a moral high ground from which you can fling shit because you don't have a cogent argument. I guess it would be annoying if it wasn't so predictable, but it's really just exhausting. Generally speaking I find the people who are quickest to invoke "maturity" are the last to demonstrate it, and this particular circumstance appears to be no exception. You might want to hold off on your stone throwing. I'm not sure your glass house is up to the challenge.
Again, I invite you to explain whether or not you would satisfied to pay extra money for an XBox game that had Wii graphics, was adapted to a Wii control scheme, and cost more money than the Wii version. You completely hand waved this analogy, which leads me to believe you A) don't understand it, or B) find it inconveniently disrupts your insult parade.
This is just my two cents on this issue.
FROM Software had no intention on developing for PC, had no experience with PC and quite frankly the only reason PC is getting a port is because FROM Software are genuinely good guys.
They listened to the PC market.
Stuck up to their publisher for PC players so they could get this game on their platform of choice.
Even when they got the go ahead, they were underfunded, given a ludicrously short time frame and they even were 100% transparent about the state of the port.
What more can you ask for fairly in this situation?
The way they designed the game is 100% based on consoles. Because they had no intention of porting it to PC ever.
This doesn't mean its a bad game that doesn't deserve to be on PC. Its just a different style of making a game.
And it will have some issues because of this.
To the comments about the modder, he is probably a enthusiast that has likely been modding on PC for years. He likely has more experience with PC coding and exploits than the devs.
Just because he is not getting paid for programming doesn't mean that he is not better than someone that has almost no experience on a specific platform. Even if the other guy is a professional.
Lastly a question. What is the bare minimum a developer has to do to make a port that its users are, (for lack of a better term) entitled to? This question will have many different answers depending on the person. Here is my answer to my own question.
I believe that a developer only has to make the port of the game the same as it was in on the console to PC or PC to console.
For example textures resolutions and framerate, don't matter.
Sure extra options and resolutions/textures/framerate increases would be nice, just they aren't necessary.
Something that would be necessary would be controls that are playable with the platforms existing method of control or with a peripheral that that platform has access to.
For example the ability to play with a gamepad on PC, Dark Souls or like CS:GO the ability to play with a keyboard or mouse on Ps3.
Another necessary feature is hardware optimization. For example the optimization needed to run that game on that platform.
This is the things I believe they are obligated to do.
They can go above and beyond if they want to, see Sleeping Dogs (Console to PC) or CS:GO (PC to Console)
And you of course have your right to not buy a straight port if it doesn't appeal to you but insulting a fair developer just because its not had a extensive upgrade over one version of the game, seems petulant to me.
And speaks of a mindset that doesn't care for the design principles the developers put into the game in the first place.
And if this is the case because I may be horribly wrong, why bother with the game?
FROM Software had no intention on developing for PC, had no experience with PC and quite frankly the only reason PC is getting a port is because FROM Software are genuinely good guys.
They listened to the PC market.
Stuck up to their publisher for PC players so they could get this game on their platform of choice.
Even when they got the go ahead, they were underfunded, given a ludicrously short time frame and they even were 100% transparent about the state of the port.
What more can you ask for fairly in this situation?
The way they designed the game is 100% based on consoles. Because they had no intention of porting it to PC ever.
This doesn't mean its a bad game that doesn't deserve to be on PC. Its just a different style of making a game.
And it will have some issues because of this.
To the comments about the modder, he is probably a enthusiast that has likely been modding on PC for years. He likely has more experience with PC coding and exploits than the devs.
Just because he is not getting paid for programming doesn't mean that he is not better than someone that has almost no experience on a specific platform. Even if the other guy is a professional.
Lastly a question. What is the bare minimum a developer has to do to make a port that its users are, (for lack of a better term) entitled to? This question will have many different answers depending on the person. Here is my answer to my own question.
I believe that a developer only has to make the port of the game the same as it was in on the console to PC or PC to console.
For example textures resolutions and framerate, don't matter.
Sure extra options and resolutions/textures/framerate increases would be nice, just they aren't necessary.
Something that would be necessary would be controls that are playable with the platforms existing method of control or with a peripheral that that platform has access to.
For example the ability to play with a gamepad on PC, Dark Souls or like CS:GO the ability to play with a keyboard or mouse on Ps3.
Another necessary feature is hardware optimization. For example the optimization needed to run that game on that platform.
This is the things I believe they are obligated to do.
They can go above and beyond if they want to, see Sleeping Dogs (Console to PC) or CS:GO (PC to Console)
And you of course have your right to not buy a straight port if it doesn't appeal to you but insulting a fair developer just because its not had a extensive upgrade over one version of the game, seems petulant to me.
And speaks of a mindset that doesn't care for the design principles the developers put into the game in the first place.
And if this is the case because I may be horribly wrong, why bother with the game?
A developer is free to do a half-assed job of any product, for any reason.Ildanach said:
Customers are free to buy or not buy said product based on their perception of its quality.
Customers are also free to draw what conclusions they will about the motives and/or competence of the developers.
All of that is fair game. If you want a reputation for doing a good job, do a good job. It's really that simple. If I'm baking a cake, and I warn you ahead of time it's likely going to be shit, and it turns out shit, I don't then merit a reputation as a baker of excellent cakes just because I'm a good dude and I gave you a heads up. Most particularly if I then try to charge you extra for my cake.
I'm pretty mad at them for this port. I was so excited when I heard Dark Souls would be coming to PC because I wanted it so badly, I almost got a PS3 just for that freakin game.
But the lower resolution, 30fps, not to mention GFWL!!! Yeah, I'm giving this a skip. Something I'm not too happy about but why should I pay full price for something clearly not designed for me as a pc user.
But the lower resolution, 30fps, not to mention GFWL!!! Yeah, I'm giving this a skip. Something I'm not too happy about but why should I pay full price for something clearly not designed for me as a pc user.
i think if there is one thing from can take from this. Don't listen to the pc gamers ever again :L
To be fair i think the main problem is this is a console game through and through. It was never meant for pc. I find it hard to imagine how the controls would work on a keyboard...
To be fair i think the main problem is this is a console game through and through. It was never meant for pc. I find it hard to imagine how the controls would work on a keyboard...
Yep, resolution and framerate locks can easily be fixed my the community, and there will more than likely be mods to enhance the visuals for the PC. But GFWL can only be fixed with piracy, which I'll never do and which causes a whole load more problems. That's the main reason I'm hesitant on getting it for the PC.FelixG said:
It is true that just warning you about it is not enough, but is it really a shit port just because it is a game designed on console that you can now run on PC in exactly the same state?BloatedGuppy said:
I am not so sure it is.
Of course this is my preference and you have your own preference.
But going to the cake reference maybe it was home baked but it was being served in a gourmet restuarant but they advise you ahead of time it is home baked and discount it heavily.
Isn't that just down to preference and expectations?
I wouldn't mind this example because I don't mind either style of cooking, good food is good food.
I have GFWL (Not GFW, Games for Windows is perfectly fine. Crysis was a games for windows game, for example) installed. Got it when I got Arkham City. It fucking deleted my save file! I was at the part where youFelixG said:
Fight Mr Freeze
I'm still not going to pirate Dark Souls, I seriously do not condone that shit.
This guy, thinking that the smallest section of the market is actually the largest, and that if they left they'd take the market with them.Loop Stricken said:
This guy.
It's not discounted heavily though. It currently costs more on the PC than the bloody console.Ildanach said:
I don't understand this "you can run it on PC's in exactly the same state, we're happy with it, why aren't you?" argument. Playing games on the PC =/= playing games on the console. AGAIN. If it was a game with Wii graphics on your PS3, no one would be saying "Well, the Wii guys are happy with it, I guess we should be too". They'd be saying "What the hell...?". They'd especially be saying saying "What the hell..." if they got charged extra.
There's this narrative that this port happened because of good vibrations and because the guys who make/distribute the game have hearts of gold and want to show some love to their PC brethren. I find that a little facile. They evidently want to sell a game to a sizable potential audience. There's nothing wrong with that. There's also nothing wrong with calling their attention to the fact they did an absolutely rubbish job of it.
Games for Windows Live is in my opinion the real devil in this port.
I would still get the game because hey I have GFWL for Batman Arkham Asylum and I can actually play it reasonably consistently but I still hate the hell out of it.
I hate Steam, Origin and GFWL but I do not deprive myself of games I want to play just because of annoyances that surround them. I understand sometimes these annoyances for me = unplayable for others and I respect that though.
I would still get the game because hey I have GFWL for Batman Arkham Asylum and I can actually play it reasonably consistently but I still hate the hell out of it.
I hate Steam, Origin and GFWL but I do not deprive myself of games I want to play just because of annoyances that surround them. I understand sometimes these annoyances for me = unplayable for others and I respect that though.
Given a key corner stone of the game is based around frustration.
I doubt the extra hampering from a poor port will make the game all that enjoyable.
I doubt the extra hampering from a poor port will make the game all that enjoyable.
