The escapist, I need your help.

[Mad World]

Oh my, that's enlightening! Christianity is all about treating other people well, therefore, people who don't believe the same thing as you deserve death and eternal torture.

Just kidding. Well, obviously that was sarcasm, but my retaliation toward you is the real joke. Don't take it too seriously, please: I'm not expecting it to change anyone's mind.

All Christians should treat others well, yes. However, that doesn't mean that everything is like in a fairy tale; people do - indeed - go to Hell. It's extremely sad and unfortunate, but also necessary.

 

[kikon9]

Oh my, that's enlightening! Christianity is all about treating other people well, therefore, people who don't believe the same thing as you deserve death and eternal torture.

Just kidding. Well, obviously that was sarcasm, but my retaliation toward you is the real joke. Don't take it too seriously, please: I'm not expecting it to change anyone's mind.

All Christians should treat others well, yes. However, that doesn't mean that everything is like in a fairy tale; people do - indeed - go to Hell. It's extremely sad and unfortunate, but also necessary.

Why exactly is it necessary?

 

[Mad World]

Why exactly is it necessary?

Good question.

Simply put: it is necessary because God must punish people who do not follow Him; it is the right thing to do. God would not be just and perfect if He did not punish those who did not believe in Him.

It is a very difficult thing to accept, but we tend to want to look at this from a human point of view; and as human beings, we are definitely not perfect. However, God looks at things from His point of view, and He is perfect.

 

[kikon9]

Why exactly is it necessary?

Good question.

Simply put: it is necessary because God must punish people who do not follow Him; it is the right thing to do. God would not be just and perfect if He did not punish those who did not believe in Him.

It is a very difficult thing to accept, but we tend to want to look at this from a human point of view; and as human beings, we are definitely not perfect. However, God looks at things from His point of view, and He is perfect.

That doesn't really make him sound just and perfect so much as just petty.

 

[lacktheknack]

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

In your opinion - as a Christian - do you think that the monk would get to Heaven, even though he didn't believe that Jesus Christ was His Lord and Saviour?

Reread my post.

As for the hypothetical Buddhist monk, while he practiced kindness his entire life, he ignored the most-important being of all: God. After all that Jesus has done for him, he refused to accept Him as Lord and Saviour; and as a result, he deserves Hell. God is just and perfect; therefore, He must fairly judge all people.

Oh no, Heaven help you... You could probably pull this quote off on any other website...

As a Christian, all I have to say on this is "God judges the heart" and I'm not going to say whether or not God will condemn the misguided righteous... that's up to him. I wouldn't be surprised if he makes exceptions for exceptional people.

Exceptions for exceptional people. What about the majority of Earth's population that never got a chance?

People who never heard the Good News? I'd classify that as an inordinate circumstance, treated like an extraordinary circumstance.

 

[GrimTuesday]

Oh my, that's enlightening! Christianity is all about treating other people well, therefore, people who don't believe the same thing as you deserve death and eternal torture.

Just kidding. Well, obviously that was sarcasm, but my retaliation toward you is the real joke. Don't take it too seriously, please: I'm not expecting it to change anyone's mind.

All Christians should treat others well, yes. However, that doesn't mean that everything is like in a fairy tale; people do - indeed - go to Hell. It's extremely sad and unfortunate, but also necessary.

Why exactly is it necessary?

Because it give them a reason to act superior and make everyone scared that if they don't join the Jesus club then they will burn when they die. Religion is all about controlling the masses by telling them what they want to hear, and when that doesn't work they tell them that when they die they won't go up to live in the sky. All humans fear death, those who claim they don't are lying, and religion gives them comfort but the only why you can get this reward is to do what they say, thus effectively controlling their followers.

 

[Not G. Ivingname]

Now, I don't post here often. But this is a serious problem and I need an outside opinion on the matter.

Now, a friend of mine up until about a week or so was an atheist who disliked the idea of an omnipotent being watching over her and hated going to church with her family. She then went on a weeks holiday, to a camp in the north. I later discovered this was a christian camp. When she returned she was acting peculiar, different from usual. To me, she seemed closed off and less loving. At first I brushed it off as nothing.

But now she is heavily religious, she loves going to church, claims to feel the joy that God brings to her and that God guides her path and helps makes her decisions. Also, she now proclaims that God is her one and true love, above all. I was concerned with this drastic change on her views and have gathered up a group of people who feel the same way about her. We have all sworn to do what it takes to find out what has happened. Now, that may seem a tad drastic to all of you. But, she has changed massively; we wouldn't do this if it wasn't as bad as it is.

Now, the escapist. What do you think of this situation? Do you have any suggestions on how we should proceed?

I have some quotes, from Msn and Facebook; which represent how 'devoted' she is to this religion now, and before she left.
Before the camping trip:
"i dont get along with my parents, and i dont believe in "god" im also being forced to go camping on the 26th!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - :'("
"thn today forced go church!!!!!!!! omg HATE HATE HATE- but now on computer so im happy"

After:
"************* September 5 at 8:37pm
I'm not scared of death at all, and i won't let you take God away form me cos you can't cos he'll always be there for me! And God helps me to make decisions and guides my path, x"
"church is goood, strangly enough."

I'd like to point out, that I'm not against christians or members of any religion. But she was only gone for one week and it is like she has changed completely. So I'm concerned and asking for help.

I think your over reacting... how bad can these camps...

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

O.O

#@$^...

The only thing I am sure that you can do is ask her how the camp was and what she did. Be casual about it, be relaxed, and find out what they did to her. I am not sure much can be done for her.

Trying to "return" her to normal is going to be a daunting task since you have to fight against her teaching, her parents, and the church it self. God can't be proven to not exist, so your going to be hard pressed to win her with any logical arguments.

To be fair, their are atheist camps that are just as harsh (one tasks kids to prove that an invisbile purple unicorn that can't be touched isn't there for a "godless" $100 bill), but it all is still brain washing.

 

[Mad World]

That doesn't really make him sound just and perfect so much as just petty.

Again, that is your human thinking. Sin must be punished, and God acts accordingly.

Reread my post.

I have read it. Still, I wanted your answer.

"Exceptions for exceptional people." Does that refer to people who literally never have heard of Jesus? Or does that simply refer to people who have heard of Him, yet choose not to follow Him (but practice kindness and bring about peace)?

Because it give them a reason to act superior and make everyone scared that if they don't join the Jesus club then they will burn when they die. Religion is all about controlling the masses by telling them what they want to hear, and when that doesn't work they tell them that when they die they won't go up to live in the sky. All humans fear death, those who claim they don't are lying, and religion gives them comfort but the only why you can get this reward is to do what they say, thus effectively controlling their followers.

While I am sure that some people do utilize religion for wrong, that is not what Christianity is about. It is about being in a loving relationship with Jesus Christ.

Yes, death is scary, but that is not - in any way - why I, for example, am a Christian. You become a Christian because you want to follow Jesus - not because you are scared of death and want to believe what sounds the nicest.

 

[Berethond]

That doesn't really make him sound just and perfect so much as just petty.

Again, that is your human thinking. Sin must be punished, and God acts accordingly.

Reread my post.

I have read it. Still, I wanted your answer.

"Exceptions for exceptional people." Does that refer to people who literally never have heard of Jesus? Or does that simply refer to people who have heard of Him, yet choose not to follow Him (but practice kindness and bring about peace)?

People who have never heard of him, most likely. If they live exactly the way Christians are told to live, but as just never had the opportunity to hear about Jesus, what happens to them?

 

[Mad World]

People who have never heard of him, most likely. If they live exactly the way Christians are told to live, but as just never had the opportunity to hear about Jesus, what happens to them?

Romans 10:14 states: "How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?"

I don't know exactly, but I know that God will be fair and just in whatever he decides.

As long as they were able to see that some sort of divine being had to have created everything (Romans 1:20), I would think that they would go to Heaven, but I am not entirely sure.

 

[Bludycomicsinc]

Get a group of people together for any amount of time and with the right manipulation you can turn anyone to pretty much anything.

I'm not sure how to best answer you without making negative comments about certain aspects of the Christian community but it sounds an awful lot like brainwashing. I'm sure you can find the documentaries online where they visit these camps and I was truely sickened. My personal feelings for Christianity aside, just the methods employed shocked me and I couldn't believe anyone could target children in such a manner.

Ultimately, if she is happy, or she believes she is happy then there is little you can do to change that. If anything, trying to get in the way will simply make her cut ties with you. You or your friends cannot reverse the conditioning which occured during that week. That may sound harsh but incredibly clever conditioning is exactly what it is.

I should point out this doesn't happen will all christians, just certain groups and it sounds like that is the kind of place she went to.

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

If you think you can undo the kind of shit seen above, then good luck to you.

I am a christian and even I think that is scary. I go to church and they don't do stuff like that there. That is just plain brainwashing. I think you should become a christian only if that religion is what you believe. Being brainwashed into it is wrong in my opinion. Those kids don't look happy at all. This is probably how Nazi Germany started.

 

[katsumoto03]

Get a group of people together for any amount of time and with the right manipulation you can turn anyone to pretty much anything.

I'm not sure how to best answer you without making negative comments about certain aspects of the Christian community but it sounds an awful lot like brainwashing. I'm sure you can find the documentaries online where they visit these camps and I was truely sickened. My personal feelings for Christianity aside, just the methods employed shocked me and I couldn't believe anyone could target children in such a manner.

Ultimately, if she is happy, or she believes she is happy then there is little you can do to change that. If anything, trying to get in the way will simply make her cut ties with you. You or your friends cannot reverse the conditioning which occured during that week. That may sound harsh but incredibly clever conditioning is exactly what it is.

I should point out this doesn't happen will all christians, just certain groups and it sounds like that is the kind of place she went to.

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

If you think you can undo the kind of shit seen above, then good luck to you.

Well it's official. I've been disturbed.

 

[Outright Villainy]

Well this is getting a little off topic with the whole "God's will" thing.

The important thing is that for the Op, yes, that is incredibly creepy. An intervention definitely sounds like the best option. I'd be seriously worried about my friend if they changed so radically too...

 

[FunKing]

Spoiler: Jesus Camp

Those people are loonies. I want to beat these people with bats.

after about 5 mins of watching that video i felt the same way....lol and i'm probly the lest violent person i know

 

[jawg_t-j]

okay there are usualy two main reasons why people become atheist.
1.lack of beleif they genuenly dont beleive in god for some reason like if there truly is a god why do good people die while evil people drink from the skulls of the innocent or there is no god because science says so.
2.they dont have the time/want to like have to work on sundays dont have enough time to do it i feel that this idea in this religion is stupid like there views on homosexuality.
there are proberbly many more but they are the main reasons i can see. if your okay with how your friend acts but your just concerned go talk to her if you feel that her new found religion is completley changing who she is and you want that to stop its going to be a long road you have to get her to see that with either of the two so you can sutley get her to see that god dosnt exist and that the her new found religion is not so great that chrisians have done there fair share of evil deed in the name of god that the pope shelters the peodofile molesters under the idea that there men of god or that science proves god exists maybe in time she'll relise this. and two get her intrested in somthing like a realy adicttive game or series so that she'll either be to tired to go or so obcesed with it she wont stop untill shes finished and relises that she can spend her time on better things. even though route number two is easier while shes with her parents she is completely controlled so its best to sew the seeds of doubt then they will soon grow and blossom to open her eyes to the real one not obscured behind a holy book.

or theres the davinci code.
hope this all helps excuse poor spelling.

 

[P-mac]

It's up to her to decide to be extremely Christian or extremely Atheist.

The thing that really gets me about these "Jesus Camps" is that it's precisely not up to the kids that go there to make up their own mind. And if that's where the OP's friend went, then it really wasn't up to her either.

I know that going there wasn't her idea, but still she has the ability to decide to go along with what they say or not.

 

[Happy Sock Puppet]

In the end, she makes her own decisions.

Some people are very impressionable. She has the right to choose her own path, even if it's one you don't like. I am betting that if she got into it so quickly, she may get out of it just as quickly.


Just my opinion.

 

[Rakkana]

I'd happily explain whats going on there but with so many atheists on this site I think I'd only be met with hate. And I don't think it would help either.

Just leave her alone on the matter. She's entitled to her own option as much as you are. And as far as I know we don't brain wash but I can't speak for all of us. Some "Christians" don't seem to get the whole free will thing.

 

[Guffe]

You go to that camp next time and look if it was brainwashing, of course you won't notice since you will be gods pawns as well after it, or if you come home with no change of mind you could just say she was wrong before and noticed religion isn't such a bad thing. People change. Less often this drastically but it happens. Keep an eye out for her thou since "not being afraid of death" is not human according to me.