The increasing hostility to games as art, games journalism, the industry, and Mass Effect 3.

[Epona]

I hate being hit over the head with "games are art so you can't ask the dev to change anything". The same fuckin' people will turn around and talk about how devs are in the business to make money and anything goes in that regard. So which is it? Those two are usually at odds.

I tell you what I really think, people choose whichever argument fits their anti-consumer agenda and I am pretty damn sick of it.

 

[CAMDAWG]

Those who label "games as art" have suffered a similar fate. They are called "pretentious snobs", "anti-consumer", "stupid", and less nice names.

The reason why the "games as art" crowd, and also some of the journalists who espoused this, were exposed to such a huge amount of vitriol was because of the way they handled their side of the argument. For every well-reasoned and polite response, there were ten "ENTITLED WHINY FANBOYS! ARTISTIC INTEGRITY ARTISTIC INTEGRITY! BLARHRHHGRHGRHG" responses, and obviously these didn't go down well. There were also a whole heap of "you only think the ending's bad because you don't understand it" arguments as well. Now I don't care what anyone says, that is massively pretentious.

So yeah, the "change it" crowd bit back. No one side is at fault more than the other for this (except maybe the journos, they should be above it), but it's not fair to rail against one division of the community for calling another division names, when that other division was calling the original one names at the same time, if not ever so slightly earlier.

 

[drednoahl]

Well gaming is in a pretty shit spot right now, publishers and platform holders are trying to squeeze ever more from the market as it grows, there has been several years of pure stagnation and nothing else but sequels and reboots with the rare gem amongst them. Publishers are trying to force ever more insidious DRM on their customers and to take more of their rights away and they are pushing their games out faster and faster. They're kind of striving for a "FIFA"-rhythm for all their franchises and the quality goes down the gutter. They are pushing for "Online"-features in every title on the one hand and motion control/"social" on the other

Having only fanboys fawning over the amazing new ways EA/Activision & Co. think up for squeezing more money out of people would be the most damaging and toxic environment for "gaming" I can think of. People need to call these companies (and affiliated gaming pages - which are doing anything else but journalism and function more as an extended arm for company PR) out on their hype bullshit, hold them to higher standards and things might still turn out well in the end without being buried under a mountain of shit... luckily there are glimmers of light like the Indie market, KickStarter and certain companies like CDProjekt and Valve.

Pretty much this. I'd add that when a publisher calls me a pirate then they should expect a reaction. Then SOPA. Then trying to add malware to games, nasty EULAs and DRM in such an insulting manner - and on top of that insinuate that people who trade/buy used games are as bad as criminals; frankly I'm surprised so many gamers can remain calm.

Many publishers seem content in breaking consumer trust - the cornerstone of capitalism, and while these publishers continue their warlike stance on legitimate paying gamers I doubt that gamer's rage will end; if anything it appears set to get worse imo.

Many gaming journalists appear to have lost touch with their audience too imo, I strongly suspect that those sites/magazines with zero day reviews have a score restriction placed upon them by the publishers of the game forbidding a score below 8.5. Again this is a consumer trust issue. Games simply aren't living up to expectations, and when those expectations are built from a review that doesn't add up I think it's only natural to be angry because you've essentially been lied to.

If haters are going to hate regardless, why would publishers create more haters that in the long run do more damage to a business than good? You really don't want to know what I think the answer to that is.

I have no opinion on the games as art thing.

 

[ThePurpleStuff]

I've played games since I was 3 years old, but I don't call myself a gamer any more, I'm just a person who plays games, I have other less expensive hobbies I'd love to do instead of gaming. People are always gonna ***** and complain about something, no one is ever 100% happy or 100% angry over a game, it's impossible to please everyone. Also impossible to make everyone hate your product since there were people who said despite the ending they still liked ME3. That's why sharing opinions and trying to preach them as fact is just pointless, if there's still one person who says they liked the ending, those who hate it may be the majority but their anger is moot. We may not like business practices, but if one of us stops buying a companies games, we'll always be replaced by another who doesn't think about what they buy or support. We're always gonna have people in the community who just cause shit and drag the rest of the good people down, it can't be stopped, so getting angry over it is just pointless too.

Ignore the label of gamer and ignore the people who call themselves gamers who are just being jerks, not the people with actual constructive criticism. I say just keep buying games you love, whether it supports bad business practices or not, the company would still do it even without your money since they don't care what you think.

 

[Heinrich843]

Don't take this the wrong way, but is the point of this topic to actually gain insight to the situation, or merely to entice others to reinforce your point or contradict it?

The gaming industry, which includes gaming journalism, pretty much controls the market at the moment. You're extremely unlikely to find any great insight as to why the debates of art, journalistic integrity, and negative feedback are occurring.

In short, those displeased with the video game industry are consumers without a market selling to them (at least what they want), and thus they've renewed an old market/created a new market- and someone will be by shortly to sell to them. (Thus making them less angry.) As far as "art" is concerned- it's been brought up that the term was used in an attempt to armor design choices. (Considered to be bad by various people/individuals)

 

[xDarc]

While I wholeheartedly agree with those who touched on issues with game journalists backing EA/Bioware and other recent questionable industry practices; I will tell you why I am generally pissed off.

I am a gamer. I am turning 30 in a couple weeks. I hardly play games any more. Not because I can never find time, but because I can never find anything either worth playing or that does not have some ridiculous catch that pisses me right off. I buy just a few games a year now.

From the 90's I have dozens of encylopedia sized software boxes that 3.5" diskettes and CDs used to come in. I have always been a PC gamer, but I felt the ripples in 2006 when Xbox 360 was seeping like wildfire. The soul of the games seemed to leave their shells, technically the games stopped evolving, and the security measures became more aggrivating.

I remember games were partly interesting to me because of the technical feats they accomplished. Every year some new title was pushing the limits of what had been done up to that point. Now it's like they aren't even trying any more. Just re-releasing call of duty every year.

Bottom line- I'm pissed off because I'm a gamer that isn't gaming much. Apparently my business isn't missed much as there are endless armies of teens waiting in the wings to take my place and throw money at the business.

 

[ResonanceSD]

Gamers starting to act like regular consumers? Better put a stop to that and let the industry get away with whatever they want!

 

[BreakfastMan]

Gamers starting to act like regular consumers? Better put a stop to that and let the industry get away with whatever they want!

Ooh! And ad-hominem and a strawman! Never seen those too combined in such a way before! Good job completely misrepresenting my stance and missing the entire point of the thread!

 

[Pumpkin_Eater]

The powder keg has been slowly filling ever since the Kane and Lynch scandal, and ME 3 was like throwing a molotov at it. I for one couldn't be happier that gamers are actually standing up to the way the industry has been acting, and hope to see some closures in the gaming press (GIN and G4, I'm looking especially hard at you).

 

[malestrithe]

Are Games art?

I am dubious of that label. Whenever I hear it, it screams more of a marketing ploy than anything else. It is usually in reference to some game that you would not have picked up other wise. You know, games like Flower, Journey, Braid, Dear Ester, Amnesia, and so on. The games that would languish somewhere in complete obscurity, getting only small buzz around them.

 

[lumenadducere]

Well, games journalism in general is in a pretty sorry state. Too much of it revolves around ad revenue and exclusive deals with publishers and developers to get first-day reviews, previews, interviews, etc. The more exclusives you have, the more unique hits you have, thus the more profitable your site is. But the issue is that it becomes incredibly difficult to maintain any sort of objective independence when all of your income relies upon the very people you're reporting on. Who's going to give solid, objective journalism when the person paying their boss is the one being reported on? Very few.

Add to it that a lot of "game journalists" don't have any background in journalism at all and are often just thrown about to whatever needs to be done, and you have some problems with competency. How many games journalism sites have people completely uninterested in a sports game or a RPG review games within those genres? Way too many. How many times is objectivity completely thrown out of the preview/review process? How often do you see someone say "hey, y'know what? This isn't my cup of tea, but I can see how someone who likes this genre would enjoy this game." Very rarely.

So yeah, game journalists in general deserve a lot of flak. Note that this doesn't apply to everyone, of course - there are still good sites out there (this one included for now) that deliver quality material. But those good sites don't have nearly as many readers as the big ones that are completely stuck in the muck that is game journalism, and thus their ability to sway publishers or give meaningful information to a substantially large number of people is small. There need to be a huge shift on the consumer end away from the big sites before any meaningful change in game journalism happens, and considering most people who play video games aren't all that into the subculture I doubt that's going to happen anytime soon.

As for the "games as art" issue, I think it's the same people who have been against it from the beginning, but they just got a boost in the backlash against BioWare's "artistic vision" statement as to their rushed, nonsensical, and utterly half-assed ending. I've never understood the argument against games as art in the first place other than a vague fear that "if games become more artful, I won't ever get any fun games anymore" which is the most BS argument I've ever heard. The existence of The Black Swan or The Curious Case of Benjamin Button doesn't somehow stop The Avengers or Transformers from existing (although in the latter case maybe it should). Contrary to what certain people say, the existence of product does not prevent the existence of art or vice-versa.

 

[rob_simple]

I do not think that games journalism is evil and inherently corrupt.

I agree with most everything else you say but on this I feel you are mistaken.

Almost all published journalism is corrupt in some sense. From traditional magazines and newspapers to websites with huge corporate sponsors, they will twist their words and take sides dependant on who is giving them money.

It doesn't necessarily mean everyone that works for them shares this view --I'm sure we all remember the Jeff Gerstmann incident-- but as a general rule if you want to write for a particular website or newspaper, you will walk the party line.

That's what I love about the internet. For all it's many, many faults it has fostered a community of dedicated journalists and groups who will research stories and put forward objective truthes on their own blogs or forums like this, without fear of reprimand.

Before the internet, we wouldn't have heard about half the stories of EA's shady business practices or higher-ups in game companies encouraging employees to trash the work of people who gave them poor reviews.

So, yes, the people constantly arguing an shitting themselves over games as art and EA being the devil are annoying and ultimately redundant, but like any other group of people there are some who are doing good work and I think that's worth all the bullshit.

 

[fozzy360]

Look, OP, I'm just to go to sleep, and I'm sure many folks have already brought up some very good points, so I'll just throw in my shitty opinion for whatever it's worth.

1. I love the hostility I've seen in the past few weeks. Why? Because it shows that we're finally paying attention. I'd be more worried if we just took up our rusted tailpipes with nothing but a smile and a "thank you" with all the various shenanigans of late.

2. Many publishers lately have shown that have no interest in anything that doesn't involve nickel-and-diming the consumers for what they're worth. The hate they're getting is more than they deserve, and, re-iterating point 1, I'm glad to see people fed up with it.

3. A vision of unified, happy gaming "culture" is something I believed in too, but, to be honest, now it seems to be anything but dandy. It goes back to what I've been saying: having a community filled with gamers who are happy and smiling because they get to participate in gaming is one that I wan't to have no part. There's no fire to it, no passion to it, no reason to defend it vigorously from those who would wish to exploit it. Of course, this community (gaming, not necessarily The Escapist) has it's warts and faults, but I;d rather take that than the rosy utopia you or anyone else would love to live in.

4. I'm glad journalists are getting some hate. They've always seemed like more like advertisers than reviewers, and this whole ME3 debacle has shown how incredibly disconnected they are to the community they represent. It's also highlighted how it needs to be fixed and how it could possibly be saved from a complete lack of credibility (assuming there's any left).

tl;dr the passion's been great, why get rid of it, your idea doesn't sound great, fuck IGN.

 

[BreakfastMan]

1. I love the hostility I've seen in the past few weeks. Why? Because it shows that we're finally paying attention. I'd be more worried if we just took up our rusted tailpipes with nothing but a smile and a "thank you" with all the various shenanigans of late.

You can pay attention to what is happening and want to change it without resorting to insulting and demeaning those who disagree with you.

3. A vision of unified, happy gaming "culture" is something I believed in too, but, to be honest, now it seems to be anything but dandy. It goes back to what I've been saying: having a community filled with gamers who are happy and smiling because they get to participate in gaming is one that I wan't to have no part. There's no fire to it, no passion to it, no reason to defend it vigorously from those who would wish to exploit it. Of course, this community (gaming, not necessarily The Escapist) has it's warts and faults, but I;d rather take that than the rosy utopia you or anyone else would love to live in.

This is not what I want. I want a culture where I am not insulted for liking something or thinking a certain way. I don't have that right now. Is that too much to ask?

 

[kingthrall]

Snobby , Pretensions YEP sounds like me!

As for the Art business of gaming, well Gaming is an Art. To micro manage units whislt building and maintaining resources is just one example of an art.

NOT BLOOM, Rendering and design. If you want that kind of art then you should go do digital art and work in a gallery.

And to those who disagree with me about it being art, well that is probably why I would destroy you in multilayer alongside others while your counting the feathers on some fictitious bird.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Nope, sorry. You can toot your own horn with this "I just want everyone to be nice" rhetoric all you want, and have circle jerks with other people as you did in this thread, but I will have no part of it. If you want to picture everyone who's outraged at whatever is happening in the industry as a shit-smearing mongoloid, I can't really stop you from doing that, but if you, and people like you, keep making threads like these instead of trying to debate the actual points that are being presented, we're going to form an image of you as well.

Wow. Some people really just do not get what the hell I was going for with this thread. Despite the fact that I have repeated myself multiple times throughout.

To re-iterate:
I do not want "everyone to be nice". That is asinine. What I want is to not be insulted for having an opinion on something that others might not agree with. What I do not want is to see flame wars started over which internet video series people prefer. What I want is good, reasoned criticism, not mud-slinging.

EDIT: Also, hell of a nice strawman you got there.