The Power of a Samurai Sword

[Zykon TheLich]

You know, we had a very long thread like this a year or so ago. I bookmarked these.

http://www.thearma.org/essays/knightvs.htm
http://www.thearma.org/essays/katanavs.htm
http://www.thearma.org/essays/longsword-and-katana.html

They were both well made and highly developed weapons that served their purpose very well. The idea that European swords were just sharpened lumps of metal is quite frankly bullshit.

 

[ostro-whiskey]

Samurai swords are so over rated, you lose the edge on them so quickly and they are difficult to sharpen, as is the nature of folded steel.

The best type of sword was probably the Cavalry Saber used by the Prussian and British during the 18th century right up to the 20th century. After the Battle of Warterloo those pansy French protested its use due to the terrible wounds it inflicted.

 

[KillerH]

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)

1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)

2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?



I know, I know! I just couldn't not post this.

not that I disagree, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this.

 

[Zykon TheLich]

Spoiler

That's it. I'm sick of all this "Masterwork Bastard Sword" bullshit that's going on in the d20 system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.

I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the d20 system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)

1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)

2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?



I know, I know! I just couldn't not post this.

not that I disagree, but that doesn't really have anything to do with this.

Man, soooo many people aren't getting that post.

Just to let people know it's some old copypasta taking the piss out of...well, you can guess.

 

[Neo0MJ]

Man, soooo many people aren't getting that post.

It was too well written, a person can't resist but reply. Anyways, Katanas suck!

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

Hurray for the CheeseKnife!

 

[UltraParanoia]

Cheese vs chainsaw: Bad idea, it would probably gum up the chain like crazy.

Cheese vs katana: I don't really care, when I need to kill dairy products I use a gun

Spoiler: Kills Cheese Dead

 

[jamesworkshop]

Actually cutting chesse isn't a bad idea since its fairly soft a bit like flesh which the blade is made to cut.
the Katana is shaped like it is for a purpose in this case a tool of war, damaging a tool by using it incorrectly is not a fault of the tool a chisel isn't a bad tool if you try and use it to chop down an Oak tree your failure will be a user error.

The Katana has a single edge and has a wedge shaped cross-sectional geometry which when applied to unprotected flesh in a draw cut, which will cut deep because the blade especially the front 6" is very curved creating a deeper cut than a straight edged sword would the blade does not so much as cut but splits the flesh instead creating a much nastier wound.

However against very hard materials (steel armour) the wedge shape becomes a problem as it trys to push too much material to one side however despite most movies the common weapon of the Samurai is not the Katana (a rare and expensive weapon) but the Bow and Spear (Yari) which are quite effective against armour because they are piercing weapons.

Against armour one of the best swords didn't even have a sharpend edge the triangular cross-sectional geometry of the Estoc can't support an edge but the tapering creats a very strong pyramid shaped tip which is incredible strong and punctured armour easily.

 

[SsilverR]

first of all .. that isn't a PROPER samurai sword ... the ones i have from aikido class are all folded steel and each worth more than a grand .. that's just some cheap camden replica

secondly .. a proper samurai sword can quite easily take a low calibur round and even split it ... and a PROPER samurai sword would've gone through that cheese with nothing but its own weight (you wouldn't have had to swing ... not that i'd call that a swing)

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

First, I aim weeaboo at everyone, if they don't like it, they can report me like everyone else, and I'll take this up with the moderators, again. If you actually can read and write in Japanese, or are able to name more than three ethnicities in Japan, or be able to name the four big Islands, then I humbly apologize. If not, then you're a Japan-o-centric pervert weeaboo! Go watch more hentai.

Second, your abilty to read english is excellent, you may note, upon review, that I am responding to several posts at once in the text.

Thirdly, you seem to have a keen grasp of physics, but a poor one of sword making. If your grasp of iron working and metallurgy was a bit keener, you would know that the smith uses a carbon-adding substance called flux that ensured a uniform carbon content whilst removing impurites simultaneously. Also you would know the difference between tempering and annealing

I didn't respond to the weeaboo comment because I found it offensive, I responded because just talking about something from Japan (in this case, a sword) doesn't make one a weeaboo. And judging from your post, my suspicion that you don't know what the term weeaboo means is confirmed. Also, I do take offense to being called a pervert when nothing I have said warrants such petty namecalling.

I'll concede the second point with the suggestion you make it clear what parts of your post are directed at what parts of your quote in the future.

The third; you're right, I'm not exactly an expert when it comes to metallurgy. I do however know with 100% certaincy that folding a blade hundreds of times is pure nonsense.

Let's look at it from a perspective I'm more familiar with: Physics. Let's say you make exactly one hundred folds in stead of the "hundreds" you refer to. This means you end up with 2100 layers, or 1.267.650.600.228.229.401.496.703.205.376 individual layers. I'm sure you can begin to see my point just from the sheer size of this number. Even if you somehow were a supernaturally skilled smith who could make layers of exactly one molecule thick, you still wouldn't be able to fit that many layers into the thickness of one katana. So no matter what benefits the layering might provide, and even if you use tricks to counter the huge loss of carbon that would otherwise build up with such a long process, there just isn't a single benefit to making "hundreds of folds".

 

[Joa_Belgium]

It's a sword. It cuts.

What do you expect?

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

a proper samurai sword can quite easily take a low calibur round and even split it

The funny thing is, any blade made of steel could cut a bullet.

Bullets are made from much softer material than steel, so if it hits a sharp steel edge it will be cut. The impact might chip away at the sword or even break it, but a regular bullet would fare even worse than the blade simply because it's made of a completely different material for a completely different purpose. There's nothing inherently special about a katana that allows it to cut bullets (not to mention that even if you were somehow fast enough to cut a bullet during a fight, you'd still get hit with the bullet shards).

 

[Akai Shizuku]

Katanas are very over-rated. Sure, folding steel 1000 times allows it to be incredibly sharp, but incredibly brittle. They're only effective against flesh.

Considering the effort of making one, it's embarrassing that they snap like toys against another sword.

<url=http://dsc.discovery.com/videos/mythbusters-slicing-a-sword.html>lolwut?

OT: Were he trained in kenjutsu, he would have been able to slice through not just the cheese, but the can as well.

 

[Jamash]

That video reminds me of one I made when I bought a knock-off Bat'leth from the internet...

Spoiler: just like this one

We tested out it's sharpness by lobbing a cold turnip at my friend, who parried it with the Bat'leth... it wasn't a good day to be a turnip.

The Bat'leth effortlessly sliced through it with just a flick, which was quite impressive considering how hard & dense the turnip was, but it's not really surprising when you consider the Bat'leth is a very heavy piece of steel with a crude, but razor sharp edge, plus the momentum of the heavy turnip contributed to it's demise.

Those knock off Bat'leths aren't really practical weapons though, they may be heavy and have about 4' of razor sharp cutting edge, but they're crudely made and horrendously unbalanced.
I pity the Trekkies on a budget who buy them for cosplay because they're cheap, but don't realise they come battle sharpened... I mean who thought it would be a good idea to make and sell TV props with a real edge? Even real Klingons don't actually use sharp Bat'leths.

 

[Kurokami]

you sir are a pioneer of the sport known as cheese cutting.

*Icon of clapping hands*

I don't see why there isn't one available.

 

[Hurr Durr Derp]

Let's look at it from a perspective I'm more familiar with: Physics. Let's say you make exactly one hundred folds in stead of the "hundreds" you refer to. This means you end up with 2100 layers, or 1.267.650.600.228.229.401.496.703.205.376 individual layers. I'm sure you can begin to see my point just from the sheer size of this number. Even if you somehow were a supernaturally skilled smith who could make layers of exactly one molecule thick, you still wouldn't be able to fit that many layers into the thickness of one katana. So no matter what benefits the layering might provide, and even if you use tricks to counter the huge loss of carbon that would otherwise build up with such a long process, there just isn't a single benefit to making "hundreds of folds".

A katana was typically folded 16 times, if memory serves. Might be my fault for saying 1000 folds when I meant 1000 layers earlier in the thread.

It's slightly higher than my assumption of 10-15 times, but 16 seems like a reasonable number. You'll end up with 65k layers, which is a lot but not an impossibly huge number.

 

[Hawgh]

you sir are a pioneer of the sport known as cheese cutting.

*Icon of clapping hands*

I don't see why there isn't one available.

It's those damned international sports organisations, keeping down the pioneers.


@Hurr.
Not that I'm attacking your point, but seeing as the blade starts out with a single layer, wouldn't the math be 1 + 2^99?
Much smaller number, still ludicrously large, but much smaller.