The Surge in LGBT rainbow characters - AKA: The New Demographic and why its happening.

[CaptainMarvelous]

-snip-

I appear to have let frustration get the better of me, apologies for mis-interpreting your intentions the same way I have felt mine have been.

My stance is fairly simple in that I've been getting the feeling (emotional response and all) that there are individuals who are telling people what they can and cannot do/say in regards to video-games and it was beginning to feel the same way in this thread. For comparison, I had a discussion with Spot on page 3/4 area and amended my viewpoint; I have been roundly maligned or accused of using poor logic with every subsequent response rather than addressing any perceived problems since then or my extant admission of oversight.

My initial outburst is not that 'everybody who wants greater representation doesn't play video games and is an sjw' but that there are a number of ill-informed people raising social issues with gaming who don't have the experience in the medium to form a well rounded opinion (I guess the best example would be campaigning to ban cinemas because of the Saw movies or Jack Thompson's career); I don't believe it's a huge number just a loud one and I don't want to hunt down names to name, though I am sure I could find some. But even my original response has since seen some hindsight that there are ill-informed people campaigning on the opposite side so in the interests of neutrality, I should keep to myself and 'vote with my wallet'.

And I'm primarily becoming frustrated because I don't disagree with what everyone else is asserting (that more representation is good) but I disagree with the overly aggressive and often off-hand manner in which they are responding to my concern (that the surge isn't exactly new, or a surge, and we're making too much of a song and dance over the increase in LGBT characters that somewhat removes the legitimacy of them even being included.)

 

[Nocturnus]

Wow.

Just need to say something, and before someone jumps down my throat... i'm about the farthest thing away that someone can get when it comes to the whole "SJW Woo hoo" that's been resulting in things like Anita Sarkeesian showing up on ABC News. *Gag*

However, with that said, not every attempt that tries to offer inclusive content is the result of some "SJW Conspiracy". I see that showing up a whole lot, and to me, it just SCREAMS tinfoil hat. Gay character in a video game? MUST BE THE SJW'S!

It doesn't make a good argument.

 

[MrFalconfly]

You being gay is not an excuse for you to let your fear stop you, just as me being ostracised back then isn't an excuse for me to be introverted and cautious.

It doesn't really work like that. Telling people (like your parents) you're gay can change the way they feel about you for life. Even in today you'll hear of parents telling their children horrible things after they come out to them, or sending them to therapists to "fix" them. I've heard countless stories this year alone where that has happened.

There's being ostracised "back then", then there's being loved by your parents before but then being ostracised for life after you come out.

I already had this conversation.

Have a nice day.

EDIT:

I mean I have realized that the US is apparently a 3rd World country, where it's legal for parents to abuse their kids under the guise of "Religion" (which is fucking bollocks of the highest order, and should be fixed, and I don't care if the Constitution says "Congress shall make no law regarding religion" or some other bollocks).

 

[MrFalconfly]

I already had this conversation.

Have a nice day.

Pretty sure we haven't.

I edited the other post.

And I never said we had the conversation, but I had, with somebody else.

 

[MrFalconfly]

It doesn't need to happen under the guise of religion. Your parents can say whatever they want to you for whatever reason they want. I know a girl who was 13, had good grades, got along great with her parents, loved school, then she came out to them and her mum said she was some pretty horrible things, sent her to a therapist, asked her repeatedly why she's pretending and cries openly around her about her being gay, and now they barely speak. Her dad said he supports her, but he thinks she should never be allowed to get married, and her now her parents argue and fight loudly about her. By saying she likes girls she may have driven her parents to divorce and has forever changed her relationship with them.

Gonna say it here. That mum is a real grade A *****. Really. And this is where that girl needs support, because it isn't her tearing that family apart, but rather that ***** of a mum.

I know of another guy who was 20, again got along well with his parents, then he came out and they broke down in tears and told him he was wrong. They talked to him a lot, begging him to change his mind, but he stood by it. Then they sat him down in the living room one day, gave him a cheque for 20 grand, and said that he has to take that cheque and never contact them again or stop being gay, so he went back in the closet.

What a bunch of bigots those parents were.

I understand his decision, but I hope that he reconsiders when he moves, and gets his own place, just as a final act of defiance.

The point is being gay isn't like being ostracised or introverted, you can have great relationships ruined by coming out the closet. It's almost like an inversion, the ostracism can happen after you come out, and there's nothing you can do to change it. It will affect the rest of your life. I checked and you said in a previous conversation that good parents should be a given, not luck, but I'd argue that's an even bigger fantasy than the stuff that happens in MK.

So tl;dr, Kung Jin's fear is something a lot of gay people can relate to; having a person of massive influence on you affect your life and decision making. It's not exactly comparable to being ostracised by kids during high school because you have a weird interest, but being alright after. It's more like fear your family will ostracise you after, for the rest of your life, without you being able to do anything to change it.

Maybe this should have an asterisk to it.

Like " lot of gays*" *in the US.

But it still doesn't change the motivation. It's still self doubt. It's still the fear of "what if". People don't have to be gay to know that fear. It applies to everyone at some point in their life.

EDIT:

I feel this needs to be clarified.

Kung Jin doubting himself DOES NOT mean that he is "cowardly", far from it.

EDIT:EDIT:

In any case, I don't think that the fact that I have good parents is a privilege for me. And if it is, then I just lost a bit more faith in humanity as a whole.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Gonna say it here. That mum is a real grade A *****. Really. And this is where that girl needs support, because it isn't her tearing that family apart, but rather that ***** of a mum.

Not much support she really can get to be honest. She'll be around her mum almost 24/7, chances are after a few years of a hostile or negative atmosphere coming from her own mother, the thought she's to blame for the fights, and the knowledge her mum will be disappointed in her for the rest of her life, will eventually get to her in some way.

Maybe this should have an asterisk to it.

Like " lot of gays*" *in the US.

But it still doesn't change the motivation. It's still self doubt. It's still the fear of "what if". People don't have to be gay to know that fear. It applies to everyone at some point in their life.

EDIT:

I feel this needs to be clarified.

Kung Jin doubting himself DOES NOT mean that he is "cowardly", far from it.

EDIT:EDIT:

In any case, I don't think that the fact that I have good parents is a privilege for me. And if it is, then I just lost a bit more faith in humanity as a whole.

"It's still the fear of "what if". People don't have to be gay to know that fear. It applies to everyone at some point in their life."

Yeah you're right there. Not much else to say here so uh, thanks for the discussion I guess.

1) Well at least she has you right? I mean that's at least something.

2) You welcome.

 

[mecegirl]

Wow. See this is why the term "Check your privilege" exists.

Yes I realize I'm privileged to live in a country that has decided that education is something we all should have access to.

That is my privilege.

Not every country supports the citizens who decide to pursue a higher education, but luckily for me Denmark does, which means I receive close to 1000 USD every month because I'm studying engineering at DTU.

That is a privilege, I freely admit that. And it's a privilege I share with every other Dane.

Was there anything else?

EDIT:

How about, instead of asking me to "check my privilege", you actually check your civil rights. Because what you claim are my privileges, isn't. They're the rights of every citizen in any civilized country.

EDIT:EDIT:

I'd also appreciate it if you didn't dismiss my experiences.

I didn't dismiss your experiences. I pointed out that your experiences are different than other people. I pointed out that there are people who have it worse. That is not dismissal, that is truth. I'm straight as well, and that is a privileged position in our culture. You know another privilege? Having good parents. Gay or straight not every one has good parents that will support them and give them the strength to grow the self determination that you value. I got picked on in grade school, but my parents always had my back, even to the point of coming to the school and addressing the faculty on my behalf. And some of the things I was picked on were inherent qualities, like the color of my skin. But still I had people to support me. However, considering my parents religious leanings(and the fact that my dad is a preacher) if I weren't straight, and that became a matter of contention at school, I wouldn't have had their support. Not with all the fire and brimstone talk that happened in the congregation I attended as a child anyway. Not with how my father's side of the family hounds my gay aunt over her orientation. Learning to stand up for yourself is well and good, but there is a time for everything and sometimes laying low is the safest option. Its a fair bit easier to shrug off hate from outside sources, but from your family? If I were gay I would have had to grow up listening to sermon after sermon from my father's lips about how I'd be condemned for something I couldn't control. If that were the case I wouldn't say that it would be impossible to move past it, but I'd surely be stunted in the self esteem department.


Others have spoken to you about civil rights, I guess now you have a better idea of just how much protection those rights afford some people when someone else wants cross that line. Not everyone is treated equally in the U.S. They should be, but they are not, even when the law is involved, they are not. Beyond that no one has the right to go to college for instance. A badly timed confession of ones sexual orientation could very well leave a person without the opertunity to create a good life for themselves after loosing their parents support. If someone decided that it was better to wait a while, or not speak at all, to their parents about their orientation because they had a reason to fear that they would be cut off I couldn't fault them at all.

 

[Vault101]

So... guessing you didn't read the above thing that I am also in favour of having more representation of gay characters despite adamantly not identifying as an SJW.

youre making the assumption that "SJW" is a term that has a general agreed upon meaning, now granted we've all got meanings for SJW but I don't see people identifying as such unironically...eather that or its a label foisted upon them (usually for seemingly innocuous things)

[quote/]Also in favour of more black characters which I very rarely see people bring up but that's neither here nor there. So, I am in favour of a thing that I believe has been occurring organically within gaming for a while[/quote]
and how to these things "occur organically? I'm not sure, changing media landscape? people [b/]critiquing media[/b] and powers that be not being so risk adverse? you know....complaing basically

[quote/]and I'm aggravated at what feels like external meddling[/quote]
yeah...what FEELS like external meddling. Mabye its because stuff like this has gained traction since Sarkeesian became a household name, maybe people are making their voiced heard? maybe games are now open to serious criticism? (changing media landscape thing)

ALL of this has been amplified by the reactionaries, even before GG. The demographic that has mistakenly thought of itself as "default" now feels challenged...threatened even


[quote/]Frankly, I have a personal sub-category of SJA VS SJW, if I'm not called a shitlord or threatened for having a different opinion[/quote]
"shitlord" has gone out of vouge in "SJW" spaces...or at least the ones I frequent


[quote/]I generally consider someone a Social Justice Activist rather than Warrior.[/quote]
maybe you shouldn't even consider them that as

that implies they actually do "activism" when really all their doing is stating opinions, not particularly radical ones at that

 

[Karadalis]

It would be less to absolutely not aggravating if the companies that make these changes werent such dishonest dickholes.

Does anyone here really believe that companies like marvel, EA or DC really have equal representation in mind when they rewrite characters as gay or turn male characters into female ones or jampack their games so full of LGBT characters that it looks like some deranged version of pokemon (gotta include them all!)?

Hell no... they use the LGBT community for publicity and will throw them away just as quick as they picked them up in the first place when they realise that they are loosing customers because they alienated their old ones with these drastic changes.

Thats my main issue here... knowing that these companies interest in diversity and representation are not based on a desire to make their products better... but to blatant pandering to the SNW tumblr generation and the faschist progressive gaming media that has cropped up around them.

I mean how much longer then blatant feminist pandering female thor gets canceled because her readership is in a steady decline? (last i heard the writing is really bad in these comics too)

 

[Silvanus]

jampack their games so full of LGBT characters that it looks like some deranged version of pokemon (gotta include them all!)

My irony metre must be malfunctioning, I... I'm not getting a reading.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Does anyone here really believe that companies like marvel, EA or DC really have equal representation in mind

Companies? No. Certain individuals that happen to work at those companies, perhaps. Or, in cases, did work until shortly after doing that sort of thing, it seems.

jampack their games so full of LGBT characters that it looks like some deranged version of pokemon (gotta include them all!)

My irony metre must be malfunctioning, I... I'm not getting a reading.

Yeah, I can't even make a snarky comment about that.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Others have spoken to you about civil rights, I guess now you have a better idea of just how much protection those rights afford some people when someone else wants cross that line. Not everyone is treated equally in the U.S. They should be, but they are not, even when the law is involved, they are not. Beyond that no one has the right to go to college for instance. A badly timed confession of ones sexual orientation could very well leave a person without the opertunity to create a good life for themselves after loosing their parents support. If someone decided that it was better to wait a while, or not speak at all, to their parents about their orientation because they had a reason to fear that they would be cut off I couldn't fault them at all.

Which just reinforces that any "privilege" I live under, is geographical in nature, and not as a result of my genetics.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

jampack their games so full of LGBT characters that it looks like some deranged version of pokemon (gotta include them all!)

My irony metre must be malfunctioning, I... I'm not getting a reading.

If I had to guess, I would say somewhere close to zero.

Apparently the faschist SNWs are to blame for this imaginary surge in LGBT characters.

 

[the_dramatica]

Companies have never cared about the most vocal demographic. You'll need to find another reason.

 

[Black Reaper]

That's why i like Venom from Guilty Gear, in the words of IAmMC2 from Gamefaqs

Venom is gay yes. But I don't feel like that defines him, and his romance (however one sided it may be) with Zato is only a part of what makes him interesting. If we're going to give Guilty Gear anything, it must be said that they handled the prospect of a gay character with infinitely more mastery and tact than Blazblue did with its NII SAN and CARURU-KUN jokes. Ugh.

This is something that i see more in movies, but i'd like to see more well-written gay characters, it's not good diversity if minorities are boring characters or stereotypes

 

[Yeager942]

Holy shit, the escapist forums are filled with weirdos now.

One new character is openly gay and everyone is losing their minds and crying of "pandering." One gay character. One, in a cast of assumedly heterosexuals. As straight males gamers, we have the entire cast of female Mortal Kombat characters to gawk at, pandering for ourselves. The very existence of a gay character fills so many of you nerds with rage, crying of "sjw's."