First off its United States of America, not just America. You are the united states of a huge landmass that includes Canada and Mexico etc. Secondly, although its futile to argue that someone shouldnt have taken Saddam out the fact remains that it was done under false pretences. Bush had a grudge, pure and simple. Also, Im fairly sure Bush was just using his 'war on terror' as an excuse to fuck around with countries that had no chance of winning. North Korea were in the stupidly titled 'Axis of evil' but would Bush have ever had the balls to invade there? No chance. Iraq was a soft target that was intended to make the U.S look good and it backfired horribly. Likewise, would he had bothered with places like Zimbabwae? Of course not, whats the point in putting a U.S friendly government in power in a country with nothing worth buying? On the main issue of national pride, Im from England, and we've had our fair share of white supremacists over the years, and quite frankly we have nothing to be proud of. Just because a few people from the same nationality do something great doesnt mean you can walk around like your better than other countries/cultures. If anything it should highlight your own failings. I personally feel sick when I see idiots wearing shirts with there nations flag on it (or even worse, the dreaded flag tattoo). If you, as a white person, start to slide towards being proud of your nation heres something that should make you stop in your tracks and hang your head in shame...the slave trade. Outweighs any acievement in my view.
The White Man's Burden
- Thread starter Seldon2639
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Not really... lol, Well played though..Agayek said:
I'm just trying to say this: Survival of the fittest; The weakest die. If someone invades a country, and the government doesn't win... To hell with it. Society is spiraling into a self-destructive, tolerate of the weak mindset. Dude, retarded people place a huge burden on society, so do un-organized "countries" with no government, get rid of them all... we'll be better off... It used to be a fact of life, just like the fact that I will offend 868361982 people right after this post.
Have a wonderful day!
While it's true that whatever country you belong to is usually a random chance of birth and planetary alignments, I have to disagree. I'm proud to be an American because, for the most part, it's a great country. We've fucked up in the past, and will continue to do so into the future, but for the most part we're trying to do the right thing.Nmil-ek said:
Flags and anthems don't do anything for me either, and I'm not some rabid obsessive that thinks we can do no wrong. However, America is a great place to live, and has done a large amount of good for the world. Maybe more than some and less than others, and maybe a lot of evil has been swept under the rug. I don't know. But I can't base opinions on information when I've no hint of its existence.
Edit:
Why should I feel shame for something people I have never met, have no desire to meet, and have been dead for hundreds of years did.Simiou said:
I am just as divorced from the slavers as any random black man walking through the streets of Nigeria or living in the Congo.
Do I have slavers as my ancestors? Quite possibly. I've never looked into it. Has my country benefited greatly from the slave trade? Most assuredly yes.
None of that makes it in any way, shape or form my fault, thus I refuse to feel ashamed about it.
Also, if you feel sick for people supporting the country they choose to live in, you may want to consider life as a hermit. They love their home and are willing to support it. Why is that such a terrible thing?
I suppose the question comes down too what to the rest of the world expect of America? Ever since Vietnam you've been involved in wars against developing nations rather than stronger countries, and the world is a changed place. It's easy to forget the in the time of WWI the idea of nations having a lot of land and area was still considered a sign of power, which lies in stark contrast to todays society where economic factors as well as how developed/clean/healthy your country is are the better indicators.
Because of the greater influence of the media I would say people are more likely to speak out against things such as wars because those sorts of ideas are more freely spread around in the liberal media, such as theres always going to be two opposing sides, neither of which will ever be satisfied. I suppose thats all that has happened here.
Because of the greater influence of the media I would say people are more likely to speak out against things such as wars because those sorts of ideas are more freely spread around in the liberal media, such as theres always going to be two opposing sides, neither of which will ever be satisfied. I suppose thats all that has happened here.
Erm...ok, if those are your demands we'll see if we can make that happen for you. Seriously though, the first paragraph of that article admits that Tasmania etc are only technically part of it as they are on the same continental shelf, which is not included in the Oxford English dictionary definition of 'continent' Also, no one from New Guinea is complaining about Australia being called Australia, whereas this article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Americas#America.2FAmericas) states "While many in the United States of America and other countries generally refer to the country as America and US residents/citizens as Americans,[50] many people elsewhere in the Americas resent what they perceive as misappropriation[51] of the term" So yeah, your pissing people off, thats the major difference. Nice try though.Cheeze_Pavilion said:
That is a ridiculous comparison. Im not aware of any world's #1 dad mug owner pride organizations. Seriously the very fact you're comparing national pride to a novelty mug is laughable.
Hmm...yes fair enough. I perhaps should have been less sweeping with this statement. Certinally the slave trade should stop any pride anyone from the U.S or England or a lot of other places might have.
My point is if you insist on feeling pride in your country's success and history you should feel shame in it too. You say you refuse to feel ashamed because its not your fault, ok, then does the reason you feel proud of your country have anything to do with your own actions? You cant have it both ways. Also, by supporting do you mean 'blindly loving the lump of rock they happened to be born on'? I would consider life as a hermit but the hours arent great and besides, these people are thankfully in the minority. You ask 'why is it such a terrible thing?' I can tell you now for a fact that nationalism is one of the things stopping humanity's development as a species.Agayek said:
For that same reason you are not ashamed you should not be proud, you have nothing ot do with it anything your country has done has nothing to do with you. Too much pride in anything is a bad thing, being born in scotland i could say im proud of alot of things and i am but none of them have anything to do with this country. Im proud of the soldiers who went and died for the people thye loved and cared about, proud about the great minds who revolutionised the world, proud about my ancestors who won their freedom three times over but they arent the country they are people.Agayek said:
Anyone who dies for their country is a fool, anyone who dies for their people is a hero in my eyes.
Well America doesn't accept that it is only acting its own interest and generally insists it is serving the greater good. But the real problem isn't intervening in Iraq and doing nothing about a much more serious situation in Sudan, which is only a crime by ommision. The problem is you cannot claim credit for removing some dictatorships while positively supporting others.Seldon2639 said:
I think you can bet your ass the rest of the world would be fine with it. Almost every single American military intervention since the Second World War has been hugely unpopular in the rest of the world. I personally don't agree that Iran and North Korea need to be 'stopped' and even if they or someone else really did that shouldn't be the role of any one country but an international one.
