The White Man's Burden

[Eskay]

if america suddenly just disappeared, people would miss it

Only if we'd already launched the weapons.....

Seriously though:

I can understand the original posters frustration, but this largely comes down to perception. As has been stated before there will always be people looking at things differently, they're reacting differently to America's actions. The American media tendency towards glib "them against us" scenarios leads to the impression that you have. Not trying to blame it all on them, but its a mentally that tends not to distinguish between detractors.

A lot of abuse of things like Iraq comes from not only those who oppose the action, but those who oppose how it has been carried out. I myself have contempt for what Saddam did, but am also not impressed by the US' (and the UK's) actions in his stead.

As a final note try to consider interpretations of motive. Most Americans will steadfastly hold to the fact that they are trying to do the right thing. Fair enough. But others will not see it that way. It is natural to distrust foreign interventions and what their motives are, especially when (regardless of whether it was or not) there are such apparent other motives possible (placing in a friendly regime, oil etc.). An outside example may be useful. Iran states it wants nuclear power. Many western countries distrust their motives and will regardles of outcomes. This probably frustrates many Iranians who truly believe that they simply want whats best for them and no harm upon others.

 

[almaster88]

Well, thats cool to be patriotic and support your country and stuff, but as for thinking america is the greatest country in the world... I think you need a reality check, or maybe a history lesson. I've travelled a fair bit even though I'm still relativly young (20), but from what I gather, the general opinion around the world is that people dislike america.

I mean you know how many Americans have ever left their own country? Or even have passports? It's like less than 5% or something ridiculous.

Personally (I'm half british) England is a country to be proud of. Granted they havent done much lately, but how about in the past? They stopped the germans from taking over the world twice ( and dont say the americans saved world war 2 because if the japs hadnt have bombed pearl harbour they would have done nothing) the french just gave up and the british were holding off the germans like 70k from their own shores, and get this people, they are a little ISLAND!

Still not convinced? How about colonizing basically all of africa? No offense but africa was better off when they had 2 dudes in bright red uniforms guarding the whole country then now when ruled by its own people. The british started trades to asia, the carribbean and 2 of the biggest countries are common wealth countries with england (australia and Canada).

Want to give support to a country, how about england? The tiny island that could.

 

[Spacewolf]

On the main issue of national pride, Im from England, and we've had our fair share of white supremacists over the years, and quite frankly we have nothing to be proud of. Just because a few people from the same nationality do something great doesnt mean you can walk around like your better than other countries/cultures. If anything it should highlight your own failings. I personally feel sick when I see idiots wearing shirts with there nations flag on it (or even worse, the dreaded flag tattoo). If you, as a white person, start to slide towards being proud of your nation heres something that should make you stop in your tracks and hang your head in shame...the slave trade. Outweighs any acievement in my view.

then no nation can take pride in anything after all the slave trade run buy egyptions for thousands of years moved far more than the British/American slave trade did. Then theres also the Slave trade in the barbary coast by the corsairs also moved far more aswell. Then there where the Hunnic slave trade. So your saying that the slave trade outways any achivement by mankind?

 

[Agayek]

For that same reason you are not ashamed you should not be proud, you have nothing ot do with it anything your country has done has nothing to do with you. Too much pride in anything is a bad thing, being born in scotland i could say im proud of alot of things and i am but none of them have anything to do with this country. Im proud of the soldiers who went and died for the people thye loved and cared about, proud about the great minds who revolutionised the world, proud about my ancestors who won their freedom three times over but they arent the country they are people.

Anyone who dies for their country is a fool, anyone who dies for their people is a hero in my eyes.

Alright, fair enough. We have different definitions of country.

I abhor my government. It's full of corrupt idiots and will most likely lead the world into destruction.

I love my country though. The beliefs it was founded on, and the people who live in it. The government can go fuck itself. That doesn't mean I can't like my country.

 

[Agayek]

Well, thats cool to be patriotic and support your country and stuff, but as for thinking america is the greatest country in the world... I think you need a reality check, or maybe a history lesson. I've travelled a fair bit even though I'm still relativly young (20), but from what I gather, the general opinion around the world is that people dislike america.

I mean you know how many Americans have ever left their own country? Or even have passports? It's like less than 5% or something ridiculous.

Personally (I'm half british) England is a country to be proud of. Granted they havent done much lately, but how about in the past? They stopped the germans from taking over the world twice ( and dont say the americans saved world war 2 because if the japs hadnt have bombed pearl harbour they would have done nothing) the french just gave up and the british were holding off the germans like 70k from their own shores, and get this people, they are a little ISLAND!

Still not convinced? How about colonizing basically all of africa? No offense but africa was better off when they had 2 dudes in bright red uniforms guarding the whole country then now when ruled by its own people. The british started trades to asia, the carribbean and 2 of the biggest countries are common wealth countries with england (australia and Canada).

Want to give support to a country, how about england? The tiny island that could.

Apologies for the double post, but I can't let this stand. While you are 100% correct about WWII, European colonization of Africa completely raped the continent. Most of the reason for the current conflicts in the region are because of arbitrary rules and boundaries imposed by white men on the natives.

 

[Flying Dagger]

i'm not opposed to sorting out the world, i'm opposed to the americans doing it. or more specifically the way they fail at it.

to quote a line from the hives
"but if you do it, do it good"

 

[AhumbleKnight]

I think it comes from all the messed up things that we did during the Cold War, things that people still remember. We put up harsh dictators simply because they were on our side. We overthrew Iran's first democratically elected prime minister because he wanted to start taking control of his country's oil to be used for its people. We overthrew a Guatemalan democratically elected official because he wanted to kick out U.S. businesses that bought land but didn't use it (in order to have a monopoly). And in Iraq, we pushed a warlord named Saddam Hussein into power because he was thought to be anti-communist. And I haven't even mentioned what we did in Vietnam (support a corrupt, oppressive dictator and bomb a neutral Cambodia that led to the downfall of its government and a genocide by the people that came into power in Cambodia). So obviously anything America does on an international level is going to be looked at with skepticism.
Other countries are also probably upset with our excuses for the invasion of Iraq. They have WMDs? They don't? We gave them WMDs? We're fighting to get rid of Saddam Hussein? Why does that reason pop up last? And the Middle East has lots of oil?
I think we are seen as self-righteous, claiming that we represent freedom and equality, and all those other great things. We really do not. Now there's nothing wrong with not being the embodiment of everything good, but doing bad things and claiming that they're for good is obviously going to be looked down upon. And it's not like America hasn't done good things. We also definitely would not be able to hold down war-torn countries like Darfur or Somalia. It's just the fact that we claim to be helping so often, that people wonder why we don't help those nations that clearly need it.

Well said. You are absolutly correct about this. This is something most people seem to be unaware of. The Cold War and the other wars that came before it play a major part in much of the worlds conficts today. Despite popular belief, the cold war was not a bloodless war. The US and Russia just had other people do the bleeding for them. It was done with political/financial backing of insurgent groups in other countries, training them, providing them with arms. This is how the Taliban came into power in Afganistan and how Saddam became the horrible batshit dictator the simply had to go.

 

[Ignignoct]

Well, thats cool to be patriotic and support your country and stuff, but as for thinking america is the greatest country in the world... I think you need a reality check, or maybe a history lesson. I've travelled a fair bit even though I'm still relativly young (20), but from what I gather, the general opinion around the world is that people dislike america.

I mean you know how many Americans have ever left their own country? Or even have passports? It's like less than 5% or something ridiculous.

Personally (I'm half british) England is a country to be proud of. Granted they havent done much lately, but how about in the past? They stopped the germans from taking over the world twice ( and dont say the americans saved world war 2 because if the japs hadnt have bombed pearl harbour they would have done nothing) the french just gave up and the british were holding off the germans like 70k from their own shores, and get this people, they are a little ISLAND!

Still not convinced? How about colonizing basically all of africa? No offense but africa was better off when they had 2 dudes in bright red uniforms guarding the whole country then now when ruled by its own people. The british started trades to asia, the carribbean and 2 of the biggest countries are common wealth countries with england (australia and Canada).

Want to give support to a country, how about england? The tiny island that could.

America was sending your ass-- Excuse me-- your countrymen's asses massive amounts of goods and supplies throughout, and we were already pissed off at Germany for occasionally sinking said goods. I'm well aware of the Nazi brigade of converted Americans, however.

America is a large, clunky beast, at the whim of the uninformed mass' vote; the head of state and foreign policy sways back and forth between liberalism and conservatism. Mood swings between "WAR!" and "PEACE!" and sometimes just a little police action here and there.

In short, America is a well-armed bi-polar woman (redundant?). It would be best to stay on her good side. Respect her, fear her, and maybe, just maybe she'll let you take the nice suburban to Prom if you ask nicely.

I have no idea what that metaphor means either.

Personally, I give props up to JAPAN. Those wacky goo-- Err... Sorry-- esteemed Japanese have turned that Hiroshima-frown upside-down with their work ethic and sense of industry.

I give them the A-for-effort award. They may not be tops, but they're near it without having much land, and being bombed to sh*t just a few decades ago.

PS: Just so that you won't agree with me totally, I'll go ahead and say that I always thought Africa was garbage. CONGRATS EGYPT! Way to rest on your laurels. "Oh, we don't NEED technology to survive, it's not our fault we're ill-equipped to fend off invaders!" Well, you certainly are a beautiful unique snowflake, but unfortunately, the British brought flamethrowers =/...

People will read that and think it's racist. Watch.

 

[Ignignoct]

People will read that and think it's racist. Watch.

They'd be giving you the benefit of the doubt if they did. Its just...trying too hard.

I know. Insensitive honesty can land one a suspension/ban here. I LIVE DANGEROUSLY.

It doesn't matter to anyone here, I'm sure, but I just never fawned over the continent based on how tribal and primitive it remained; same goes for the Middle East, though they were shrewd enough to pimp themselves out. We had this discussion-- and a good one at that-- to death a while back.

<3 your judgements, Cheezy-Pavily.

 

[fontlas]

I'm not with you on the whole pride thing. I guess I can see what your saying but like Nmil-Ek (?) said: flags and anthems do nothing for me. But I do know what you mean with the help or no-help thing, seriously. Which one do you want?

 

[kawligia]

Can i ask why your proud to be an American? Its little more than an accident of birth it dosent endeer anything special upon us just which lump of rock we had the fortune to land upon.

That's like saying you shouldn't love your family or cheer for your local sports team because you didn't choose to be born into that family or in that city/state.

 

[Ignignoct]

People will read that and think it's racist. Watch.

They'd be giving you the benefit of the doubt if they did. Its just...trying too hard.

I know. Insensitive honesty can land one a suspension/ban here. I LIVE DANGEROUSLY.

Eh, it's more edginess that tries to be funny, but fails in both regards. Like Carlos Mencia.

YECH! You say that only because you know how much I hate name-changing half-Honduran Germans.

 

[Seekster]

Why am I proud to be American? The real question is, why shouldn't I be proud to be an American?

 

[Satki]

I think the problem in Iraq was the complete lack of social skills and the isolationism shown by the US army to the people in Iraq when patrolling, such as treating every civilian as a possible hostile... this is the main reason why the British soldiers have had much more (relative success), and so Iraqi opinion has turned against the US.

 

[Hungry]

Flags and anthems are not patriotism, their ways to express it. Patriotism is the love of your country and the willingness to do something for it.

The importance of patriotism for a nation's long-term survival cannot be understated.[/quote]


Amen brother.

 

[Ignignoct]

Why am I proud to be American? The real question is, why shouldn't I be proud to be an American?

*puts on a Daniel Day Lewis moustache*

SLLLLAAAAAVVVERRRYYY!!!

That's what the cool kids'll say anywho. Get used to it.

They never got the memo that racism is dead with Obama in office.