Things you'd like to see changed in America

[Zemalac]

...I'm thinking this argument has devolved into a flame war.

Housebroken Lunatic: I'm not going to go over your arguments individually, because, despite the fact that there's so much to cover there (for example, your misinformation regarding the beginning of the Cold War), I don't think there would be much point. Anything I say will be disregarded out of hand. Your main idea seems to be that Americans are all guilty because they stood aside and did nothing when their government went to war in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc--Dante's "The lowest circle of hell is reserved for those who, in times of great moral crisis, remained neutral." You're saying that Americans have a duty to overthrow their government because the US government believes that they can't remain neutral in international affairs. I'm not sure if you notice the contradiction there or not, but I can assure you, everyone else does. Your belief that the US should stay out of other countries affairs is admirable, but the way you present it borders on trolling and a lot of your ideas are, to be frank, unrealistic in the extreme.

I'm not sure what country you're from, but I'm guessing Switzerland from all the hints you've been dropping. You seem to think that being neutral in WWII is a great accomplishment. The thing is, being neutral in that war was not possible for anyone besides Switzerland. It was the Swiss mountains, riddled with tank-traps and fortresses, that prevented anyone from invading. In fact, throughout World War Two the Swiss military was preparing for an invasion by Germany that the evidence suggests would have occurred if D-Day hadn't interrupted. Neutrality was a coincidence, nothing more, so please don't try and use Switzerland as an example for your philosophies.

And as my final statement: stop double posting. Use the damn edit button, or just wait until you're done reading the entire thread before posting instead of throwing words at the first thing you come across.

JimmerDunda: You're worse than Lunatic in some ways. You're not even trying to use logic or reasonable arguments--you're just making personal insults. To be honest, I'm not even sure why Lunatic is even responding to you, seeing as you're just making ad hominem statements. I mean, Lunatic is too, but you're by far the worse offender.

 

[PurpleRain]

You my friend have surpassed Lunatic in being an idiotic liberal. Of course I wouldn't mind if we discontinued some of our nuclear programs but that fact of the matter is every superpower is gonna have nukes for the rest of eternity. No one is gonna give up that power. It is pretty much a deadlock and the USA is sure as hell not gonna give it up before Russia does.

Socialism and Capitalism are forms of Government. Seriously I usually hate the right wings nuts in my country right now for buying into fox news, but Jesus Christ how many idiots like you eat up the liberal media?

What deadlock?! Who's shooting at who?! We're not in the Cold War anymore! Russia doesn't hate America!

Also, I find you presented no points or counter points, just insulted me for having a radically different mindset then you. I barely listen to any liberal TV. I gain my knowledge through books and listening to people.

 

[Zemalac]

You my friend have surpassed Lunatic in being an idiotic liberal. Of course I wouldn't mind if we discontinued some of our nuclear programs but that fact of the matter is every superpower is gonna have nukes for the rest of eternity. No one is gonna give up that power. It is pretty much a deadlock and the USA is sure as hell not gonna give it up before Russia does.

Socialism and Capitalism are forms of Government. Seriously I usually hate the right wings nuts in my country right now for buying into fox news, but Jesus Christ how many idiots like you eat up the liberal media?

What deadlock?! Who's shooting at who?! We're not in the Cold War anymore! Russia doesn't hate America!

Also, I find you presented no points or counter points, just insulted me for having a radically different mindset then you. I barely listen to any liberal TV. I gain my knowledge through books and listening to people.

I don't think Jimmer has been actually arguing with anyone for the entire time he's been on here. He just keeps on insulting people. I'd suggest not responding.

Also: About Russia not hating America: That might be too early to call, actually. There's been a weird trend recently where the Russian population has been waxing nostalgic for the good old days of the USSR, when they were a power to be feared. It's kind of strange, all things considered, but I can sort of see where they're coming from. You know, if you ignore the Gulags and stuff.

There's a lot less tension between Washington and Moscow these days, but they're still both keeping a wary eye on each other--for proof, all you have to do is look at Russia's "Dead Hand" system, still active after all these years. Throw China into the mix armed with more nukes and you've got Hell waiting to break loose if someone makes a wrong move. Fortunately enough, everyone involved is too good at the political game to slip up.

Honestly, nukes won't ever go away, simply because they're too damn fine of a political tool. The moral ramifications don't matter, all the death and destruction that they represent--that doesn't even come into the equation. They're a tool that does their job very well. It's unfortunate that this is true, and if there were a way to make them useless--for example, a defensive network of the type that Lunatic believes the US to have, where nuclear warheads could be shot down before impact--then nuclear proliferation will stop.

 

[PurpleRain]

Honestly, nukes won't ever go away, simply because they're too damn fine of a political tool. The moral ramifications don't matter, all the death and destruction that they represent--that doesn't even come into the equation. They're a tool that does their job very well. It's unfortunate that this is true, and if there were a way to make them useless--for example, a defensive network of the type that Lunatic believes the US to have, where nuclear warheads could be shot down before impact--then nuclear proliferation will stop.

Well, good news with the UN on the nuke thing: Iran has started saying that it will be a challenge and a good move to get rid if all nukes and Japan is pressure China to do so. I feel this is leading in good places.

 

[Zemalac]

Honestly, nukes won't ever go away, simply because they're too damn fine of a political tool. The moral ramifications don't matter, all the death and destruction that they represent--that doesn't even come into the equation. They're a tool that does their job very well. It's unfortunate that this is true, and if there were a way to make them useless--for example, a defensive network of the type that Lunatic believes the US to have, where nuclear warheads could be shot down before impact--then nuclear proliferation will stop.

Well, good news with the UN on the nuke thing: Iran has started saying that it will be a challenge and a good move to get rid if all nukes and Japan is pressure China to do so. I feel this is leading in good places.

It could lead to less nukes, certainly. Which is good--we don't really need enough firepower to destroy the world a hundred times over. Once is enough, thanks.

Of course, this assumes that everyone involved won't smile and lie through their teeth, which for once I don't think they'll do. Nukes don't work as a political tool unless everyone knows you have 'em. It also assumes that Japan can actually pressure China to do anything, which I find doubtful--judging by the history between the two nations, I think China might do the opposite of anything Japan suggests just to spite them.

Iran, now...I was surprised when Iran agreed to hold talks about their nuclear program. I guess Ahmadinejad decided that he'd made his point by now. I thought he'd hold out for a little bit longer, just to give popular anger more time to change from him (for the accusations of election fraud) to the US (for asking about the nuclear program), but apparently I was wrong.

Anyway, back to the point: There'll still be nukes, but there might be a few less of them. The problem with nuclear disarmament, for countries who have so many bombs that losing a few doesn't matter much, is disposal of the nuclear material afterward. You can't just dump that shit anywhere--it's weapons-grade material. You have to put it in an isolated, high-security compound to keep it away from the sort of people who would love to have a pocket nuke, and then keep it there until it decays, which will take a couple thousand years or so (depending on what isotope is in the warhead). The whole thing is problematic every step of the way.

 

[JimmerDunda]

JimmerDunda: You're worse than Lunatic in some ways. You're not even trying to use logic or reasonable arguments--you're just making personal insults. To be honest, I'm not even sure why Lunatic is even responding to you, seeing as you're just making ad hominem statements. I mean, Lunatic is too, but you're by far the worse offender.

I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."

Use of logic in these threads don't work because everyone is too caught up in their own damn opinion to give a shit about logic.

I am stuck between a guy who thinks doing nothing in world conflicts is the right way to go and someone else who thinks that everyone should drop all their major weapons all together. They may sound good in theory but the execution of these would be a nightmare. We all want to dream of the perfect world with no guns but the fact of the matter is, in this world no matter where you are, someone is gonna want someone dead for some reason, one way or the other.

 

[deleted60525]

DELETED

 

[Spitfire175]

Here we go.
1)The education system. They had the money and the brains to begin with, what happened?
2)Metric system. No explanation needed.
3)Media oddities. Fox news. Oh my.
4)the general attitudde towards the rest of the world. They aren't the biggest and best anymore, nor do they own it.

 

[Rooster893]

1. NO MORE RAP OR EMO MUSIC
2. Please, no more ShamWow or Snuggie commercials.
3. No more canceling good tv shows and replacing them with CSI: Major City.

 

[PurpleRain]

JimmerDunda: You're worse than Lunatic in some ways. You're not even trying to use logic or reasonable arguments--you're just making personal insults. To be honest, I'm not even sure why Lunatic is even responding to you, seeing as you're just making ad hominem statements. I mean, Lunatic is too, but you're by far the worse offender.

I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."

Use of logic in these threads don't work because everyone is too caught up in their own damn opinion to give a shit about logic.

I am stuck between a guy who thinks doing nothing in world conflicts is the right way to go and someone else who thinks that everyone should drop all their major weapons all together. They may sound good in theory but the execution of these would be a nightmare. We all want to dream of the perfect world with no guns but the fact of the matter is, in this world no matter where you are, someone is gonna want someone dead for some reason, one way or the other.

Okay, firstly: 'I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."'
What's wrong with this? People can study topics and learn about certain goingons and discuss it. America, like all countries has many problems worth fixing. The thing with America you see, is that they can effect the global community and are shown widely on our news. Do historians live in history? No, but they study and argue over it. I can be a pro-gay marriage activist without being gay in the same way I can discuss the problems with America without being an American. You guys have this right to have freedom of speech, so why not let the rest of us do that?
Open your eyes some time and you'll discover that there are a lot of knowledgeable forum goers here.

For the last paragraph, again, you're not giving anything for discussion but insults. There are people like you in this world that hold everyone back. You see, I'm sure most people in power want to see a better future but there are far too many cynical pessimists that keep saying 'It'll never work and people are evil and will always kill one another.' I don't see how you can have such a warped view that you see disarming nukes and feeding people a bad thing.

 

[PurpleRain]

1. NO MORE RAP OR EMO MUSIC
2. Please, no more ShamWow or Snuggie commercials.
3. No more canceling good tv shows and replacing them with CSI: Major City.

1: You don't listen to a lot of music do you? There is a major hip hop scene that is very very good.
2: It's marketing. It's working. To stop it you have to stop everyone from buying it.
3: As number 1, you don't watch a lot of good tv do you, and like number 2, people dig it so it is made. American TV is producing dozens of great TV shows at the moment. Better then England or Australia or other. They have both the money and power to do a lot of great things, and they are.

 

[JimmerDunda]

JimmerDunda: You're worse than Lunatic in some ways. You're not even trying to use logic or reasonable arguments--you're just making personal insults. To be honest, I'm not even sure why Lunatic is even responding to you, seeing as you're just making ad hominem statements. I mean, Lunatic is too, but you're by far the worse offender.

I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."

Use of logic in these threads don't work because everyone is too caught up in their own damn opinion to give a shit about logic.

I am stuck between a guy who thinks doing nothing in world conflicts is the right way to go and someone else who thinks that everyone should drop all their major weapons all together. They may sound good in theory but the execution of these would be a nightmare. We all want to dream of the perfect world with no guns but the fact of the matter is, in this world no matter where you are, someone is gonna want someone dead for some reason, one way or the other.

Okay, firstly: 'I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."'
What's wrong with this? People can study topics and learn about certain goingons and discuss it. America, like all countries has many problems worth fixing. The thing with America you see, is that they can effect the global community and are shown widely on our news. Do historians live in history? No, but they study and argue over it. I can be a pro-gay marriage activist without being gay in the same way I can discuss the problems with America without being an American. You guys have this right to have freedom of speech, so why not let the rest of us do that?
Open your eyes some time and you'll discover that there are a lot of knowledgeable forum goers here.

For the last paragraph, again, you're not giving anything for discussion but insults. There are people like you in this world that hold everyone back. You see, I'm sure most people in power want to see a better future but there are far too many cynical pessimists that keep saying 'It'll never work and people are evil and will always kill one another.' I don't see how you can have such a warped view that you see disarming nukes and feeding people a bad thing.

Ok I didn't really throw too many insults that time, however I don't think disarming nukes would be a bad thing nor feeding the poor. I usually try to donate to our local food pantry whenever I can. However there are some issues with your theory. You think that disarming all nukes are possible, but at this point it isn't. There will always be the fear in every country with a nuke that if they get rid of theirs some other country will make them pay for it down the line.

Onto another issue with your theory. The USA is a capitalistic free market country. In case you haven't noticed the military also acts like a business. The military needs to buy things like food and supplies for its soldiers, which help drive the economy and stimulate some businesses. Same thing can be said about the nuclear technology program. The program is run by many smart and intellectual scientists who know a lot about nuclear physics. Now if we scrap that department we would also take away their jobs and thus make them more poor and would have to work a lesser job. Also the cost of upkeep for nuclear facilities also uses things like buildings, frameworks, specialized containers, etc. These things are made by other companies and bought by the military themselves. Again help stimulate the economy. Make more jobs.

One more thing, the nuclear program in the United States Military has also lead strides to also making more ways to use nuclear energy. Which is proving to be a growing source of energy today.

Well thats all I have to say about that. There is that less insulting and more reasoning for you?

 

[chris11246]

I think that our education system needs to be fixed. I think that the problem is that from grades k-8 there's usually only one level. Not everyone fits into that level. If you are more advanced you get bored easily and you dont need to study so you dont develop any concentration or study skills because you dont need them. If you arent able to keep up with the work you might lose interest because you dont think that you will be able to do it at all.

Im not an expert but I was always bored in classes and never studied so now I have no study habbits and very little concentration. Also teachers should have to show that they can work well with students before they can get tenure and if enough students fail a class or complain about a teacher then they should be reviewed by a national board. (although it would have to be anonymous so they cant just act like they're good for that time)

Also bills should be able to be passed in parts in congress or the senate.(Im pretty sure they cant be) If they cant be then a politician can just add something onto a good bill that should be passed that helps them and could ruin the bill just for their gain.

 

[PurpleRain]

JimmerDunda: You're worse than Lunatic in some ways. You're not even trying to use logic or reasonable arguments--you're just making personal insults. To be honest, I'm not even sure why Lunatic is even responding to you, seeing as you're just making ad hominem statements. I mean, Lunatic is too, but you're by far the worse offender.

I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."

Use of logic in these threads don't work because everyone is too caught up in their own damn opinion to give a shit about logic.

I am stuck between a guy who thinks doing nothing in world conflicts is the right way to go and someone else who thinks that everyone should drop all their major weapons all together. They may sound good in theory but the execution of these would be a nightmare. We all want to dream of the perfect world with no guns but the fact of the matter is, in this world no matter where you are, someone is gonna want someone dead for some reason, one way or the other.

Okay, firstly: 'I pretty much gave up any logic in this thread the moment I read "Ways to improve America" and then read "From a non-American."'
What's wrong with this? People can study topics and learn about certain goingons and discuss it. America, like all countries has many problems worth fixing. The thing with America you see, is that they can effect the global community and are shown widely on our news. Do historians live in history? No, but they study and argue over it. I can be a pro-gay marriage activist without being gay in the same way I can discuss the problems with America without being an American. You guys have this right to have freedom of speech, so why not let the rest of us do that?
Open your eyes some time and you'll discover that there are a lot of knowledgeable forum goers here.

For the last paragraph, again, you're not giving anything for discussion but insults. There are people like you in this world that hold everyone back. You see, I'm sure most people in power want to see a better future but there are far too many cynical pessimists that keep saying 'It'll never work and people are evil and will always kill one another.' I don't see how you can have such a warped view that you see disarming nukes and feeding people a bad thing.

Ok I didn't really throw too many insults that time, however I don't think disarming nukes would be a bad thing nor feeding the poor. I usually try to donate to our local food pantry whenever I can. However there are some issues with your theory. You think that disarming all nukes are possible, but at this point it isn't. There will always be the fear in every country with a nuke that if they get rid of theirs some other country will make them pay for it down the line.

Onto another issue with your theory. The USA is a capitalistic free market country. In case you haven't noticed the military also acts like a business. The military needs to buy things like food and supplies for its soldiers, which help drive the economy and stimulate some businesses. Same thing can be said about the nuclear technology program. The program is run by many smart and intellectual scientists who know a lot about nuclear physics. Now if we scrap that department we would also take away their jobs and thus make them more poor and would have to work a lesser job. Also the cost of upkeep for nuclear facilities also uses things like buildings, frameworks, specialized containers, etc. These things are made by other companies and bought by the military themselves. Again help stimulate the economy. Make more jobs.

One more thing, the nuclear program in the United States Military has also lead strides to also making more ways to use nuclear energy. Which is proving to be a growing source of energy today.

Well thats all I have to say about that. There is that less insulting and more reasoning for you?

Thank you for this post. I enjoyed reading it (not sarcasm).

Anyway, I feel the whole: 'but think of the jobs' argument can go to hell. I personally don't agree with many things that that argument stands for. I wish whaling could be abolished, I wish nuclear upkeep could be abolished, I wish oil mining in certain areas where it is doing more damage then good (we're looking at you Mr It-takes-1barrel-of-oil-to-produce-2-Canada)could be abolished and so on and so forth. All of these things, if removed by the hand of god would make this world better, but some people have jobs in it, some people are putting a lot of money into it, and some people need the products of it. I find it selfish but this is a personal opinion and not a very good arguing point I'm making.

I agree with your points now, however, I feel in this day and age, the whole country superstition thing is gone. We have the internet. Most citizens can talk to other citizens all across the globe thus destroying this entire 'them' mentality we once had. I would push for ending nuclear arms (not so much for the destructive side, but more so for the uselessness and money-guzzling side of things), but I feel it'll be some time.

 

[effilctar]

American Football uses hands and is similar to rugby, therefore American Rugby.

European football uses feet. American football uses hands- sometimes feet.[/quote]

Am I the only one who considers a mostly hand-using game to have foot in its name the slightest bit backward??

 

[historybuff]

*eye roll* Not one of these again...

 

[strangemoose]

ugh im American and i could go on about a lot of shit thats wrong with the U.S but theres also alot wrong with other countries too