This whole Rape Controversy has gotten silly,
- Thread starter Jimesis
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just going to say this for the people too scared to say it and im going to get a shit load of flame for this but had to be said. THIS IS A GAMING WEBSITE not a psychiatrists office, your not going to change the world with one article and you just put a "downer" on people who read it. i dont disagree with your point i disagree with how you put it across everyone who says its not the right place to say it is right.
Well I hope no one flames you, though it's not like I have a command of anyone here. I will say that I'm not trying to "change the world", I just want to talk about an idea and how our society views it, as well as how/if it is/can/should be expressed in the medium of videogames.random3 said:
I understand that it could bring people down which is why I wrote a disclaimer in the beginning. I don't know about you, but I think several people have added some meaningful insights to this conversation, have shared some very personal memories, and maybe learned about ideas and perspectives they weren't aware of before. In my book that makes the whole thread worthwhile. But then we might not even be playing the same game here.
Hmmm... I thought my post was really well thought out and quite serious, I'd also say that I understand the subject matter about as well as one can without experiencing the trauma himself. If the writing comes across as juvenile to you it's likely a deficiency on my part. If it's not too much trouble can I ask you to expand and explain what you mean?Kanatatsu said:
I think the trauma of rape is greatly amplified by our culture's hyper response to it. Women are taught their entire lives that being rapes is the absolute worst thing that can happen to you. Society is setting them up to be maximally traumatized. The truth is that rape is not the worst thing that can happen to someone, it is merely a bad thing among many other bad things. People really need to get some perspective. Would you rather be raped or killed? Would you rather be raped or lose all your limbs to an IED? Would you rather be raped or have everyone in your immediate family die?. For most people, these are not hard questions.
This is what I feel as well. That said, I don't think the way Tomb Raider went about it was wrong either. Maybe overused as a trope, but not wrong. Maybe it was a PR stunt, but I honestly don't think it'd have made a difference if the developers hadn't highlighted it. The minority probably would have once they played it, and we'd probably be in the same place we're in right now with the controversy. I just want some consistency out of gamers. People want games to be art...but the moment developers try, they're shamed to the point of denial? Are they shocked at all that they get nothing out of the AAA space?Lilani said:
I read that Anonymous article. It was harrowing and wrenching to say the least, but I cannot shake the feeling in my (thank the good lord) privileged mind that in a world of 6+ billion people, there's gotta be SOME out there that have fought off an attempted rape the way Lara Croft did. And if art reflects life, I don't see what's so wrong with the trope. It's not original and it definitely doesn't represent the reality in a well-rounded way, but this is a young industry that frankly, doesn't know how to express anything all that well yet. This generation is when it's truly begun to figure it out. So it might be a cliche, but, baby steps, you know? Maybe it's because I've never had anything that horrible happen to me that I can think those things, and I don't know if it invalidates my opinions, but I can't shake that feeling.
Tomb Raider could have lead to more and more refined tacklings of the subject. But no, the minority decided to set the precedent and now all I see in the future is more people afraid of the post-ME3 vocal minority. This is why I pump my fist when I hear Reggie Fils-Aime or the Tekken Tag Tournament producer tell it like it is about their most hardcore vocal fans that simply won't let up. The minority is long overdue that kind of response. There's got to be a point where we let developers breathe as artists without a minority shaming them into altering their vision, otherwise, kiss your stupid notions of "recognition as art" good bye.
I don't know how controversial it is to have this next opinion, but I'd like to get someone's take on it just to get a little perspective, seeing as I'm also very privileged in many ways in society: Speaking in literary terms, there's got to be a point where we let characters breathe as their own entities, independent of our idealizations. We didn't write them. We have no clue what went on in the writer's mind, and 9 times out of 10 I doubt it was "How can I oppress women/trivialize a big issue today?" We've got to experience the whole before providing any kind of feedback, criticism, or judgment.
Combine Rustler said:
It is hard to understand, you're right. It's even harder to understand why if you've just seen someone die you'd go out and buy a game with more people dying in it. I don't know about whether suffering makes you stronger or weaker (neither would be my guess) but that single point should be pretty obvious. We know that kids need protecting from violence and sex which is why we have ratings - when you're not a kid anymore you're expected to be able to decide for yourself whether you need protecting any more. You become, as it were, your own parent.
I thought your post was to bolster the argument against rape being in games. That's what this thread is about, after all. If not, then what WAS the point of your post?Combine Rustler said:
As someone who works in a mental heath clinic, this ^Combine Rustler said:
I'll add that the thing about "suffering builds character" is that to cope with trauma the person must develop coping mechanisms.
These coping mechanisms then become paradigms in other tough situations which in the case of extreme trauma need advanced coping strategies which when developped, are indeed more advanced then others who haven't gone through the trauma and is the part thought off as a "strength".
I am by no means well educated on the subject.
But is it really true that suffering never, in any situations, inspires strength or builds character?
I look at people like Oprah Winfrey and I have to wonder if it's always the case that it cripples you.
I mean, it seems a little demeaning to say to somone who feels they might have completely overcome and got passed their abuse, "no, you are still traumatized."
But is it really true that suffering never, in any situations, inspires strength or builds character?
I look at people like Oprah Winfrey and I have to wonder if it's always the case that it cripples you.
I mean, it seems a little demeaning to say to somone who feels they might have completely overcome and got passed their abuse, "no, you are still traumatized."
This is exactly the opinion that bothered my gf and myself and inspired me to start this thread in the first place. I'm not saying that some people aren't forever wounded by intense trauma, but to say that people who think they've overcome trauma don't exist or are lying to themselves is more than a little offensive.Combine Rustler said:
Now, again, I'm not saying you meant your post maliciously. I believe that you, and everyone who expresses a similar opinion, does so with the best of intentions. But being with a person who has been through something anyone would describe as horrifying and believes herself to be fine and happy now tells me that the above view can't be universally true.
I mentioned before that another really close friend of mine was sexually abused for a long time and he also went on living without being crippled by the experience. He passed away not very long ago, so it's not like I can talk to him about this anymore. Though to be honest if I ever had a chance to talk to him again all this would be far FAR from the top of my list of topics. Still though the only two victims of sexual assault I've known were not forced by their psyches to be chained to their pain forever and ever. I'm not implying that their experience is the norm. I haven't known enough people who had this happen to them. However their existence, logically, suggests that there are other people who have felt similar to the way they have.
There are very very VERY few things that are universally true when we talk about the way people feel, behave, and react to and in any given situation. Almost all generalizations that are made about such things are wrong because exceptions always exist.
Has anyone here actually seen the Tomb Raider trailer? When I first watched it, I finished it wondering where this supposed almost-rape scene was supposed to occur. Turns out it was when a guy grabs her, she pushes back and shoots him. If no-one had said anything, I wouldn't have realised that was attempted rape.