Timothy Plan Updates "Do Not Buy List" of Videogames for the Holiday Season

[lacktheknack]

"This is not an attempt to ban video games, or dictate whether people should play them," the website reads. "This is purely meant to inform parents who are concerned with the moral content/issues contained in video games and make available to them information which is not easily found."

It's actually very easy to find. It's a little box on the front of every game, and there's also a website with this detailed information. It's called the ESRB, and it has the advantage of being unbiased. Though, I'm sure Timothy Plan would argue whether or not that's an advantage.

The whole point is that it's biased towards Christianity, so they can mention stuff the ESRB might not. It's by Christians, for Christians, and it annoys me to see a scarily anti-theistic site (this one) do a full-fledged article on it.

 

[lacktheknack]

my one big problem with this is that it treats homosexuality as a bad thing or a threat,kinda makes them come accross as intolerent fucks also wtf playboy strip quest is less damaging then fable 3?! ,sigh, i guess its not a bad idea its just bad exacution

<link=http://www.timothyplan.com/ProActive/frame-ProActive-violators.htm>Again, link to explanation of why they include homosexualtiy as a descriptor.

Come on, ignorant masses who don't bother reading the site! I can do this all evening!

ok one please dont call me ignorant, its not going to help anything is it? two im strugaling (sorry bad spelling)to find there justifacation for using homosexualtiy as a negative could you provide a quick 1 line sum up of there argument, im genuanly interested to see what they have to say on the subject as i feel i may have the wrong end of the stick.

They use the Bible as the moral guideline, Bible says homosexuality is sin, end of. You know, stuff you already knew. The key lies in that, while they can't outright support homosexuality, they're NOT SAYING that homosexuals should all die. After all, homosexuality is on the same list of sins as adultery (implying they're similar in severity), and that's probably even more prevalent than homosexuality, and I don't here a massive call to the stoning of adulterers.

After all, one of the most memorable stories in the Bible was Jesus saving an adulteress from stoning with one sentence. It`s not about the condemnation of homosexuals, and it never was.

(I know that wasn`t one line, but oh well...)

right, ok i think i understand where there coming from now, i dont nessisarily (again yay spelling) agree with it but i see what they mean, i think my biggest surprise is that a game such as saw is by this method less damaging to children then say wow, which granted can be a huge time black hole (must not buy cata befor my january exams =S) but so far as i know is not based off a bunch of movies centered abound grosomly punishing people and very often killing them. of course that my opinion and you and everyone else in the world have every right to think of it as you may its just that i personally dont see this acting as a great aid, that being said i dont think its particularly damaging ether , man thats alot of text =P

It's true, though... they needed a much larger scale than three.

 

[thenamelessloser]

Nier is a pretty fucked up game and probably the most fucked up game on the list.

Spoiler

In the game you basically kill off all of humanity at the end. You kill a little kid's soul and his friend robot in the game as well in order to help revenge a the death of a soulless hateful dude's brother when the kid's soul and his robot weren't even responsible for the death of the soulless brother. I mean, you go around killing kids' SOULS and others' souls a lot in the game. It maybe forces you to do more evil in order to win the game than any other. Then it makes you do the second half of the game multiple times to see all the ending. What game is more fucked up than that shit?

(bit off topic this part and the rest of the post) Yet at the same time the game is a great parody/satire of video games and JRPGS in general. Basically should be a small ass game but because of keep making you go to the same areas over and over again (especially the side quests) the game last for dozens of hours. The game frequently makes fun of itself. And the slaughtering of human souls in the game is pretty much mocking how in video games we kill countless monsters and other beings without feeling any remorse. The poor repetitive game play with parodying storyline intertwines to be perhaps the greatest parody video game ever. The bad game design in a sense in other words could be seen as making the game as actually better.

The game even has a text adventure game in it which the characters ***** about rather a lot having to do. This was before Zork was put in a popular FPS game. The horrible character development and relation ship among the girl (or hermaphrodite up to your interpretation) with one of the party members was so bad with the kid party member and with how they so easily become tied into each other emotionally is also an excellent parody for it is because THEY DO NOT HAVE SOULS. The game is utterly brilliant. Maybe the best boring game I ever played.

 

[mireko]

Just one thing to say to this - I've heard your exact argument hundreds of times. How many times have you properly considered the one I gave? If the answer's "Less than one", then actually weigh the good and bad before automatically assuming I'm evil.

If you mean the argument that the list can be helpful for parents who want to know what content is in a game, and that this organization specifically isn't a game-censoring, baby-eating ogre. Then yeah, I agree with you.

By "extreme right-wing Christians" I meant the kind of people who lobby to ban gay marriage, enforce nonsensical laws and just generally ruin things for everyone else. Looking back at my post, that was unclear. That was an overreaction on my part. I get fired up about this kind of thing. So, uh.. my bad.

Though, for the record: this site is not anti-theistic. If this site was anti-theistic they'd be making fun of the site's writers for being Christians, not for being antiquated and weird.

 

[geoflo1024]

Morality is relative. According to Christian morality (and doctrine), homosexuality is a sin. There is nothing irrational, insane, or ignorant about it. It is a belief. Much like an opinion. I believe that homosexuality is a sin because I am a Christian who believes the Word of the Bible. I am not angry at homosexuals for being happy. I wish they wouldn't indulge in homosexual practices because I believe it a sin. And while I will agree with you that Christian extremists are something of a problem (if only because they make the rest of us look bad), the Timothy Plan does not seem to fit this criteria. They support the beliefs of the Bible without attacking or censoring or in any way hurting anyone else who believes otherwise.

Actually, the incident of homosexuality being classified as a 'sin' in Christianity is due to a translation error with the Bible. There was a Greek word that was used in the original that didn't have an English translation, so someone slapped in the 'homosexual' bit and viola! Homophobia and prejudice against it is actually a fairly modern conception and idea. It existed and was widely acceptable in Greek times, Roman times are a little more sketchy, and even in Renaissance times a lot of prominent people had lovers of the same sex.

The Christian faith is, let me remind you, divided about this issue. There are Christian churches and sects that have accepted homosexuality and do not promote it as a 'sin'.

I'm not going to tell you off on your opinion, you can hold it if you like, but when you cross that line in telling people that something that does not harm you is 'wrong' and 'sinful' you start wading into some ugly waters. Homosexuality is a NATURAL phenomenon. There are examples and instances of it in nature, which begs the question of why people call it 'unnatural' when, by nature of studying it, we come to the opposite conclusion.

The Timothy Plan is relatively sane and reasonable ? I'll give you that ? but I stand against some of the values that it promotes because I believe it isn't our right to tell people that whether or not they're attract to the same sex is wrong. The state and other people have no place in the bedrooms of others. Since I do have close friends who are homosexual, it hits very close to home for me when people start pushing the idea that who they are is wrong. Stick yourself in their shoes. See how much you like it.

I must say that I am somewhat pleasantly surprised at the level of intelligence and tact displayed by the responders to this thread - it is not usually my experience. While I'm well aware of the history of tolerance for homosexuality in ancient (and somewhat less ancient) cultures as well as the phenomenon of homosexuality in animals, I must admit that I am unaware of the mistranslation. As a devout Christian, it has always been my intention to read the Bible in its original languages, thus gaining a higher appreciation and understanding of it, but with modern life the way it is, that may not happen until I retire.
However, neither I, nor this site condemn homosexuals or judge them. It is our belief that homosexuality is wrong, but we do not hate homosexuals or are intolerant of them. I am well aware that many people use homosexuality as sin to justify their own bigotry, and I obviously would never support that.
With that in mind, I would hope that a site like this, that manages to walk the line where it merely supports the beliefs of the people for whom it is designed not to the detriment of any others who may think differently, is to be lauded for presenting its beliefs in a tactful and responsible way.

 

[lacktheknack]

Just one thing to say to this - I've heard your exact argument hundreds of times. How many times have you properly considered the one I gave? If the answer's "Less than one", then actually weigh the good and bad before automatically assuming I'm evil.

If you mean the argument that the list can be helpful for parents who want to know what content is in a game, and that this organization specifically isn't a game-censoring, baby-eating ogre. Then yeah, I agree with you.

By "extreme right-wing Christians" I meant the kind of people who lobby to ban gay marriage, enforce nonsensical laws and just generally ruin things for everyone else. Looking back at my post, that was unclear. That was an overreaction on my part. I get fired up about this kind of thing. So, uh.. my bad.

Though, for the record: this site is not anti-theistic. If this site was anti-theistic they'd be making fun of the site's writers for being Christians, not for being antiquated and weird.

All right, all fine then.

Although as to the "We don't make fun of Christians here" statement, please, for my sake, stay out of the Religion and Politics forum.

So... much... blood...

 

[geoflo1024]

The whole point is that it's biased towards Christianity, so they can mention stuff the ESRB might not. It's by Christians, for Christians, and it annoys me to see a scarily anti-theistic site (this one) do a full-fledged article on it.

You know, I really enjoy this website. And I am mildly upset about this post for just that reason. They've done articles on Christian extremists before, and rightfully so - some people only use Christianity for their own bigotry and hate. However, it seems like they were really searching to demonize Christianity again for a website that is not at all unreasonable. I know that The Escapist has run very pro-religion pieces in the past, so I think the fault my lie in the specific writer of this piece, and not the site as a whole.

 

[brodie21]

i noticed in the fallout new vegas description it said that it is implied that one of the characters has sex with a robot.

 

[Sporky111]

"This is not an attempt to ban video games, or dictate whether people should play them," the website reads. "This is purely meant to inform parents who are concerned with the moral content/issues contained in video games and make available to them information which is not easily found."

It's actually very easy to find. It's a little box on the front of every game, and there's also a website with this detailed information. It's called the ESRB, and it has the advantage of being unbiased. Though, I'm sure Timothy Plan would argue whether or not that's an advantage.

The whole point is that it's biased towards Christianity, so they can mention stuff the ESRB might not. It's by Christians, for Christians, and it annoys me to see a scarily anti-theistic site (this one) do a full-fledged article on it.

I happen to be a Christian, by the way. And while I commend them for not trying to outright ban games as a lot of the misguided masses of Christians out there would, they're still pushing an agenda that is disturbingly prevalent in modern churches; which is to control their adherents. Yes, they have the right to inform people about violent games, but the ESRB already does that. "Anti-family" is blatant fear mongering. Tell me what anti-family means! And tell me how a woman in her underwear in a game is somehow more guilty of it than all the women in their underwear that we see every day in advertisements on TV, billboards, posters, magazines, etc.

And the Escapist isn't anti-theist. They've reported positively on religious topics, and negatively as well. It's just that religion tends to be a justification for hatred, rather than a means to cleanse oneself of it.

 

[Harker067]

Aww look they failed to mention the LGBT characters in fallout. Way to do your research guys lol.

Edit: I see they also had to tell their readers that a half dozen playboys games have nudity.

post post script. I'm also shocked and appalled that persona 4 has nothing in the demonic box.

Really go read the actual list its far funnier then the summary.

 

[Tucker154]

Ok,seriously!? I fucking loved Alan Wake, and honestly, think that everyone should at least rent it, not for the gameplay, but the great story.

...and there goes my hope of humanity again.Damn it,almost had it for a week straight this time.

 

[Shining_Pyrelight]

Ugh, I horked a bit in my mouth after this. )

Though, I suppose it says something that I've never even heard of them. The site looks fairly cheap and a lot of the links don't work, so I hope there's not much validity in anything they say.

 

[Orcus The Ultimate]

Hey, Timothy:

it's not stupidity, it's more fanatism than stupidity... which in some way is a form of concentrated stupidity so you're right...

 

[lacktheknack]

You know, I really enjoy this website. And I am mildly upset about this post for just that reason. They've done articles on Christian extremists before, and rightfully so - some people only use Christianity for their own bigotry and hate. However, it seems like they were really searching to demonize Christianity again for a website that is not at all unreasonable. I know that The Escapist has run very pro-religion pieces in the past, so I think the fault my lie in the specific writer of this piece, and not the site as a whole.

I also enjoy this website, which is why I cannot stand the Religion and Politics forum. If that's where everyone drops their facade (and I think it is), then this website is very anti-religion indeed. Tolerance, my massive ass.

I wasn't saying that the articles are anti-religion, I'm saying three quarters of the readers are. And if you wish to contest that, you'll need to start in Religion and Politics. The only place where six people in a row told me to go die because I believe in "Skybeard".

"This is not an attempt to ban video games, or dictate whether people should play them," the website reads. "This is purely meant to inform parents who are concerned with the moral content/issues contained in video games and make available to them information which is not easily found."

It's actually very easy to find. It's a little box on the front of every game, and there's also a website with this detailed information. It's called the ESRB, and it has the advantage of being unbiased. Though, I'm sure Timothy Plan would argue whether or not that's an advantage.

The whole point is that it's biased towards Christianity, so they can mention stuff the ESRB might not. It's by Christians, for Christians, and it annoys me to see a scarily anti-theistic site (this one) do a full-fledged article on it.

I happen to be a Christian, by the way. And while I commend them for not trying to outright ban games as a lot of the misguided masses of Christians out there would, they're still pushing an agenda that is disturbingly prevalent in modern churches; which is to control their adherents. Yes, they have the right to inform people about violent games, but the ESRB already does that. "Anti-family" is blatant fear mongering. Tell me what anti-family means! And tell me how a woman in her underwear in a game is somehow more guilty of it than all the women in their underwear that we see every day in advertisements on TV, billboards, posters, magazines, etc.

And the Escapist isn't anti-theist. They've reported positively on religious topics, and negatively as well. It's just that religion tends to be a justification for hatred, rather than a means to cleanse oneself of it.

Anti-family = not constructive to the family structure. And they didn't say games are "more guilty" of anything. I fail to see where you're coming from considering that you quoted me.

EDIT: Wow, I screwed that post up. Apologies to anyone reading it pre-edit.

 

[InnerRebellion]

Ermm. Why is Wrath of the Lich King marked as mature? And for fuck's sake people, stop saying WoW is the most addicting life killer in the world. It's the personality of the player's fault, not the game's fault! (Referring to the Addiction: 3 score it got on that stupid chart).

 

[lacktheknack]

Ugh, I horked a bit in my mouth after this. )

Though, I suppose it says something that I've never even heard of them. The site looks fairly cheap and a lot of the links don't work, so I hope there's not much validity in anything they say.

Why? I sure hope there is.

 

[Hungry Donner]

I don't have a problem with lists like this but it seems haphazard. For example, in the alcohol category this list gives Fallout 3 a three and Fallout New Vegas a two. Fallout New Vegas lets you create alcoholic drinks, there is a companion who talks at length about her love of alcohol, and she even gives you a perk that removes the negative penalties from some alcoholic drinks. As for FO3, I don't remember alcohol being particularly prominent.

There is another discrepancy in the tobacco category, where Fallout 3 gets a one and Fallout New Vegas a zero. You can occasionally see characters smoke in FO3 and I'm pretty sure this is also true in New Vegas, so why the difference?


And really, do the Playboy games need to be listed? Even a parent who doesn't care enough to research the games their kid plays can probably figure out that these contain nudity.

 

[Cliff_m85]

"If you kill in order to save your child".

Read the Bible, dude. Remember a little story about 'god' asking a man to kill his son to prove his faith? Yeah, he was down for that test. God's all about the murder. Especially murder of the young.

 

[lacktheknack]

"If you kill in order to save your child".

Read the Bible, dude. Remember a little story about 'god' asking a man to kill his son to prove his faith? Yeah, he was down for that test. God's all about the murder. Especially murder of the young.

Problem with that... no child was murdered. God stopped the murder before it could happen. Wanna choose a less embarrassing example?