To all the Europeans and Aussie's on this forum...

[Booze Zombie]

Apparently you don't know much about the military do you? Because the US Military screens for Psychopaths for the reason that they do not make good soldiers, marines, sailors or airmen.

I got uppity about it because I am military, well ex actually, hopefully back in soon.

I thought an (undiagnosed) psychopath made a great "commando", generally. The type of guy who's willing to sacrafice himself for a quick bit of fun. Just as crazy as the suicide bombers but on your side.

How is that not a good soldier? Hand him a rocket launcher and let him clear out an insurgent occupied building, it all goes well, right?

Also, I find a great amount of humor in the fact that you're called Sgt.Looney...

 

[Dys]

But those are rare people, normally more suited to active duty in Iraq than criminality.

I'm sorry but did you just say that, someone in the military is just as bad as a murderer? Cause I'm not sure but it did sound like it was along those lines.

I understand the train of thought, but most suicides are done on impulse. Remove the impuslive means of killing yourself and you're far less likely to kill yourself.

But the same could be said about a knife, a rope or pills. They are all generally at hand when someone tries to kill themselves, guns aren't the only impulse weapon.

Of course not, I just thought it was odd in the list of "facts" and "myths" it dismissed something like 7 out of 13 underage deaths related to guns as "suicides". I was simply saying...how is that grounds for dismissal?
It's still tragic and it still counts as a death by a gun. It is possible that if the gun wasn't available they mightn't ended up dead (although it is also possible they would have).

I was just commenting on how unfair it is to dismiss deaths because they are suicides.

 

[falcontwin]

How many of the people who are in this thread arguing that they need guns for protection have ever had the need to usetheir gun to protect themselves. Or have actual first hand (not anecdotal) evidence of anyones life being enhanced by owning a firearm for self protection.

Saying that only 1200 people a year die from "accidental" gun use islike saying only 1200 people per year die from accidentally drinking poison. If the lethal object wasn't there those people would not be dead.

 

[ParkourMcGhee]

I don't know about other places but in England you're legally allowed to own weapons (barring some melee weapons and a pistol) as long as you go through the right channels.

ie: licenses, military... etc.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Well in the case of Commandos then I'd have to agree with you, to a certain point, they could make a good, commando and the ones that can fake their way the Psychiatric exams can make a good commando, even the best type but not always. Generally its just the average guy that volunteers that makes the best commandos.

What I'm saying is though, psychos (real ones) are rare and very deceptive, charismatic and unfeeling, you're more likely to be shot by one in a war zone than by one breaking into your house. That was my point.

I didn't mean to offend military types, it's just... a psycho seems like the type of person who would relish in combat. So, they'd be more likely to be in a fight club or an army or something, not breaking into your home.

I mean, you can't get much better than having Scarface on the battlefield, right?

Anyway, that nutty gun guy seems to be gone and everything seems to have calmed down.

 

[konkwastaken]

This is how i feel. NOT having guns as easy to get as bread and milk is the greatest thing ever that could happen. i don't need to be thinking everyone i walk past has the power to kill me in the blink of an eye, also in Australia i think we have about 30 people a year killed by guns across the entire country.

Someone said about if someone breaks into my house what am i going to do? i have bats and knives...all it means is that the robber doesn't have a gun either and carrying a bat with him would be impractical meaning i have the advantage

Also as joining the police force is what i want for a career no guns is just one less thing i will have to worry about everyday.

P.S. if anything is going to pick at my "having guns as easy to get as bread and milk" i know its not THAT easy, especially since you don't have to wait 7 days for your bread and milk but its still way too easy in my opinion.

 

[Goatlemon]

Well in the case of Commandos then I'd have to agree with you, to a certain point, they could make a good, commando and the ones that can fake their way the Psychiatric exams can make a good commando, even the best type but not always. Generally its just the average guy that volunteers that makes the best commandos.

This is an interesting topic on it's own. How many times have you heard someone describe a psychotic serial killer as polite, intelligent and charismatic?

Just look at Dexter. ;P

 

[MissShortosity]

I'm 18 and I've never seen a gun in real life other than the pistols holstered in the belts of police officers. I'd like it to stay that way. I'm glad Australian gun laws make gun access difficult - I personally wouldn't know where to obtain a gun other than breaking and entering a police station...
I personally could not be bothered reading through 14 pages of pro and anti gun possession, so forgive me if I repeat that which has already been stated.
It is irrefutable that increased gun possession increases gun related crime. Logic dictates that the greater the availability of something such as a firearm, the greater that weapon will be used in crime. It is irrelevant that the majority of gun crimes in the US involve illegal firearms, their presence and ease of access allows such crime to happen. Australia (and probably the UK) doesn't have this problem because guns are hard to get a hold of. Apparently ammo was avaliable in Wall Mart until after the columbine shootings. When you live in a culture that glorifies gun possession, it's no surprise that gun violence is such a problem.
I don't see why gun possession is necessary in the USA... the right to bear arms became the second amendment when the US didn't have a fully formed army, so gun possession enabled a civilian army if ever needed. Now that the US has both a competent police and defense force, I believe the second amendment is no longer necessary.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I think the problem is, unlike almost every other country, guns are part of US culture, and seen as a right, almost a duty to own one.

Coming from the UK, I can't imagine holding one, and I think if I shot someone and killed them, a burglar, whatever, I'd probably be emotionally damaged for life, and if that makes me a pussy, fair enough. We actually have a gun store in my town, but I think it only survives due to living in a posh area where there's lots of farmers and toffs who like shooting birds.

I'm with the above guy who says along the lines of 'lets see who great you feel when you're standing over some kid who broke into your house and he's crying and bleeding his last few minutes over your carpet.'

It's not the right to own guns that scares me so much as the gung ho attitude of some people, 'I got me a gun I gonna go shoot me some peoples'.

Also, I think there's a psychological barrier removed with a gun, sure, everyone has access to knives and blunt objects, but it takes a certain kind of person to stab another person, or bludgeon them to death, but distance lowers the emotional effect.

I also don't believe for a moment that knife crime is as prevalent as the media make it out to be in the UK, I don't for a moment believe that over half of teenagers regularly carry a blade 'for self defence'. I'd actually be surprised if it was even 1%. Hell most teenagers don't vandalise, rob, steal from stores or beat people up either, its all just hype from the media, and this is coming from someone who hates the chav culture and would love to blame them for everything.

 

[Booze Zombie]

What I'm saying is though, psychos (real ones) are rare and very deceptive, charismatic and unfeeling, you're more likely to be shot by one in a war zone than by one breaking into your house. That was my point.

I didn't mean to offend military types, it's just... a psycho seems like the type of person who would relish in combat. So, they'd be more likely to be in a fight club or an army or something, not breaking into your home.

I mean, you can't get much better than having Scarface on the battlefield, right?

Anyway, that nutty gun guy seems to be gone and everything seems to have calmed down.

Well I see your point and acknowledge the fact that psychos are a rare thing, still though I'd want to have a handgun or shotgun just in case. Now I would get it ready if someone broke into my house but I wouldn't pull the trigger unless I was 100 percent sure that he was a physical threat to me or my family, there would be a very angry "Get the hell out!" and pointing of the gun if they had the TV but no shooting.

I wasn't that offended I just thought it was something that needed clarifying.

Scarface would be good as a solo distraction, he's not enough of a team player.

I hate to say it but the nutty gun guy will be back it seems inevitable.

I had suggested non-lethal weapons for self-defence in an earlier post, though. Tasers, tranq darts, possibly even a stun gun. Doesn't matter how high or crazy someone is, you put enough tranq/electricity into someone to knock an elephant out, they aren't gonna be a threat.

I'm very much of the "I really don't want to kill you and I'm gonna try my hardest not to" type of personality, so naturally I'd like to think, optimistically, that most fights can be ended without fatalities.

 

[Goatlemon]

I had suggested non-lethal weapons for self-defence in an earlier post, though. Tasers, tranq darts, possibly even a stun gun. Doesn't matter how high or crazy someone is, you put enough tranq/electricity into someone to knock an elephant out, they aren't gonna be a threat.

Very true. Check this video clip out.

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=jmULmzXIbHw&feature=related

I'm sure there is a fair bit of marketing there, in that the guy was probably holding back from really hurting him in the punching and chocking bits, but it's still impressive none the less.

Sorry all for the bad quality; I'm pretty sure I've seen a better quality version but I can't find it right now.

 

[Brett Alex]

I am wondering though if civies can aquire O-ring rounds for their shotguns, if they do I'd buy some of those and have the first two rounds in the mag be those, which are less than lethal.

Thats a very good point, and a very good idea. Less than lethal but very painful, and you've got more chances to hit than a taser.

 

[Brett Alex]

I just did a quick search and it seems that civilians cannot purchase rubber bullets for their firearms, which is rather unfortunate for being able to have a shotgun as lethal and non-lethal is a good thing. Yes you do get more chances to hit, so if you manage to screw up you have a second chance and in case there is another assalent you can manage to stop him as well with out killing them. Though shotguns are harder to carry while out an about, which leads me back to the dual safety hand gun mentioned earlier and if I weren't at work I'd link to the companies page so I'll give the name in stead.

Springfield Armory XD .45

Shame about the rubber bullets. Just checked out your pistol as well, and am I right in my understanding that the triger safety means just that, the gun won't go off without the trigger being depressed?