To all the Europeans and Aussie's on this forum...

[barryween]

Maybe if the yanks decided to mass migrate to Australia then I would maybe want a gun for protection from the yanks and their gun totting ways

I realize that this may be a joke but if not, We Americans dont use guns all that much. Most are for hunting and protection and we dont usually whip them out willy nilly.
What exactly are your gun laws?

 

[Korolev]

Australia has one of the most sensible fire-arm laws - essentially, if you have a reason to own a gun, you can. Police officers, Farmers, etc, can all own a gun of some sort. Civilians can own guns, but only if they say they will use it for sporting purposes (target shooting, for example).

Australia, in general, doesn't have many guns and as a result, not many criminals have guns either. Unlike America, we didn't embrace gun culture, and as a result, not many criminals use guns, because there are simply not that many guns here.

I have no desire, or need, for a gun. No gun crime has been committed in my area of Brisbane, for as long as I can remember. Gun crime itself is extremely rare, because of a simple dynamic:

Less guns in society = less guns used in crime.

It's my firm belief, that if the US hadn't embraced gun culture or produced so many fire arms in the first place, it wouldn't have that much gun crime. The cause of gun crime in the US is because of gun culture. Look at Germany, Japan, the UK - these countries have low gun crime rates because they didn't mass produce and sell guns in the first place (although the UK is developing an alarming obsession with knife violence).

Unfortunately, in the US, gun violence has become a self-perpetuating problem. More gun violence causes more people to buy guns, which lets more guns out on to the street, which in turn, causes more gun violence, etc. If you don't buy a gun in the US, you are putting yourself in danger, but if you buy a gun, you are just helping the cycle continue.

I'm grateful that Australia didn't put itself into this kind of mess in the first place, and I do not want gun laws to be relaxed, because that will just cause problems like the US. And the gun problems in the US are difficult, if not impossible to solve. Best not to go there in the first place.

 

[TomNook]

I trust neither the cops nor the government, call me paranoid if you want, my country isn't the one with the highest amount of security cameras. It's not the government's job to allow you to have them, the government isn't there to tell you what you can and can't have. Either you control the government, or the government controls you.

Now where do we end our V for Vendetta quotes? If I want to fill my house with home made explosive should I? If I get my hands on weapons grade uranium should I keep it? If there is a cult nearbye and I think they want to sacrifice me should I cover my garden with landmines? Under your movie logic yes, but in reality we must accept that if the government doesn't stop people from getting their hands on whatever weapon they like, they become a danger to themselves and others. This can be backed up by countless statistics of family members getting shot by their own gun.

What is to stop the government from using all those things on you?

 

[Master_Corruptor]

I have no need to own a handgun or a firearm for that sake.
The reason to the gun problem is that most criminals/burglars carry a handgun or a form of firearm.
Since that is the case then most of the civil population allso want a gun to protect themselves from the criminal.

Americans have their reasons and they should not be classified as ''gunloving yanks with straws in their mouth, that shoot everyone they can't be botheed to look at''
All the tragic incidents with minors bringing guns to scool or shooting their relatives just show that the shooter suffer form a mental sicknes. It's a shame that these people didn't get the proper treatment before it went so horribly wrong.

In my country (Norway) you are completely allowed to own firearms and handguns... but you have to go through practical tests, have a clean criminal record and you must invest a huge amount of money in a high grade guncabinet to be allowed to have the weapon in the first place.

In the end...
me + guns = not likely to happen unless i'm way out in the forest, hunting.

 

[zebrin]

But those are rare people, normally more suited to active duty in Iraq than criminality.

I'm sorry but did you just say that, someone in the military is just as bad as a murderer? Cause I'm not sure but it did sound like it was along those lines.

No, I actually said that psychopaths make better soldiers than criminals, thus they're more likely to be in the army and less likely to kill you in your sleep, thus, you are more violent than almost anyone with enough guts to enter a home that isn't theirs, if you own a gun.

Also, military men do kill... so, they are murderers. But it's not illegal, so why do you care, right?

oho... so I am a psychopath huh? wow. I didn't know that! THANKS FOR BEING AN ASSHOLE JUNIOR!
Listen you generalizing prick, I am a MEDIC in the army. I am in it to SAVE lives, not end them.
Do you even know what is involved in soldiering? honestly? have you been a soldier before? no? well then don't talk about things you don't know about.

Now back onto the regular off topic-ness of this topic

I myself have some problems with the second amendment in the U.S. Constitution. I think that to own a gun, you should have to take a gun safety course and a test at the very least. Personally, I would institutionalize it into a full school course on gun safety. That way, you have to graduate high school(Or if you got your G.E.D./other diploma alternate, at the very least the safety course) before you got the chance to own a gun.
Does that infringe upon the rights stated in the second amendment? Well, I will admit, it steps on it's toes, but honestly, I believe that a sense of responsibility should be instated onto the ownership of anything designed to kill.
Keep in mind, In this course, gun safety and responsibility are the only things taught, none of that NRA or Anti-Gun rhetoric. Just straight up safety. If it was a mandatory class in school, then accidental deaths would be lowered, and more then likely violent crime as a whole in America would drop as well.
As I like to say, Understanding breeds Empathy.

I can understand that the Euros and Aussies would rather keep their way of doing things, and hell, I think that if it works for them, GO FOR IT!
But for most Americans, owning weapons is something that we were raised believing we could do. It is almost an intrinsic value in our lives.
But for the love of whatever deity you believe in, don't go friggen overboard! It is just STUPID!

I would also like to re-emphasis this

I have no need to own a handgun or a firearm for that sake.
The reason to the gun problem is that most criminals/burglars carry a handgun or a form of firearm.
Since that is the case then most of the civil population allso want a gun to protect themselves from the criminal.

Americans have their reasons and they should not be classified as ''gunloving yanks with straws in their mouth, that shoot everyone they can't be botheed to look at''
All the tragic incidents with minors bringing guns to scool or shooting their relatives just show that the shooter suffer form a mental sicknes. It's a shame that these people didn't get the proper treatment before it went so horribly wrong.

In my country (Norway) you are completely allowed to own firearms and handguns... but you have to go through practical tests, have a clean criminal record and you must invest a huge amount of money in a high grade guncabinet to be allowed to have the weapon in the first place.

In the end...
me + guns = not likely to happen unless i'm way out in the forest, hunting.

I like that. Good idea on how things should work!

[edit] Fixed some minor spelling and punctuation errors{/edit}

 

[Booze Zombie]

oho... so I am a psychopath huh? wow. I didn't know that! THANKS FOR BEING AN ASSHOLE JUNIOR!
Listen you generalizing prick, I am a MEDIC in the army. I am in it to SAVE lives, not end them.
Do you even know what is involved in soldiering? honestly? have you been a soldier before? no? well then don't talk about things you don't know about.

No, I said psychopaths are better at being soldiers than being criminals, by which I mean they'd be more suited to war zones than being serial killers or burglars.

There is a pretty big difference between the function of a medic and a soldier, right? Kinda like the difference between an engineer and a tank operator.

One's maintenance, one's the maintained. Anyway, I wasn't calling soldiers psychos, I was calling psychos more suited to warfare than subtle criminality or being serial killers. Calm the hell down.

 

[ChickaYeah]

I said it earlier and I'm saying it again: All of this is completely missing the point. We need guns for when Z-Day happens, so the survivors can defend themselves from the hordes of undead.

 

[JRslinger]

Norway is peaceful because of its people. America has the gang banger culture, which is where all the violence comes from. If we remove all the gang bangers, America would be the most peaceful country on the planet.

MosinMatt has the right idea. Most murders happen in a small geographic area where gang culture is dominant. Punishing law abiding gun owners wont stop these criminals from getting and using guns. In contrast Japan has a much more obediant to authority culture, which is why they have less violence.

Furthermore prohibition of a popular item is expensive both in terms of freedom lost and tax dollars, and is ineffective too. Banning alcohol in 1919 didn't work. The war on drugs costs billions and doesn't stop people who really want them from getting them. Therefore it's doubtfull that banning guns would work any better

The widespread ownership of guns has a deterrant effect against government oppression. Even though the government military could defeat the armed people, a lot of authoritarians would be shot before this happens. This makes the government afraid of trying to oppress us on a large scale in the first place. Also it wasn't a coincidence that evil governments have used gun control to facilitate murder. It was used by Turkey against the Armenians, the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia, the Japanese against the city of Nanking and the Soviet Union.

Positions of power are filled by power hungry people (in government especially) and they shouldn't be the only ones with guns

 

[magic8BALL]

Dang skippy. DOn't know much about nuthin' do ya? Why have a .50BMG? Why not? There isn't a reason Not to own one.
Just cause you don't "need" one, doesn't mean you can't have it. That is what freedom is about. unlike the prison colony you live in, we have freedom.
Also, Barret is over rated SHIT!
PS: Becareful of the dingos. They'll eat yo baby.

Hmmm.

I suppose your lack of a grasp of the English language has nothing to do with your responsibility with a firearm that is rated in a significant portion of the world (including parts of you ever so beloved "free" country) as an anti-material riffle, that is even if you even posses a Light Fifty. I never said that you shouldn't have one if you don't need it: it's just that I don't. Sure have your .50BMG semiautomatic, if that makes you feel more of a man, or more American, or whatever. Everyone needs their safety blanket. Mine is the internet. It is what allows me to observe people like you from a safe distance. See, I can tell you that posting on the internet need not be a rushed process; there is no need for typing errors, abbreviations or slang, and you can't shoot me.

Also, since you are so keen on post scripts, Australia was never a prison colony in its own right. Sure, every state capitol (except Adelaide) was founded as a community to support prison related work, primarily the detention of convicts, but the majority of our citizens are descendants of the guards, not the convicts. How can you tell? Convicts don't have children. Unfortunately, gun loving, war mongering, English misusing twits who pollute the internet with inaccurate stereotypes do.

 

[angelrubio]

Uhgh, and we wonder why Europe hates us. I've always hated US gun control, because I don't see the point of owning a gun. The harder it is to get a gun the harder it is to commit a crime with a gun. You don't need study's or rate information to know that it make logical seance. Ive shot fire arms at a gun range and I don't get get it, are we as Americans relay so insecure that we need a way to take another lift to feel safe?

Take Japan for an example, the law their is "No-one shall possess a fire-arm or fire-arms or a sword or swords." Few exceptions are made and their is VERY little crime in Japan. In Osaka less than ten crimes per 100,000 people, and about 1 in 100,000 is murder.

I hate US gun control entirely.

That's more of a cultural thing though so not quite a fair comparison. If you filled Japan with americans I'm sure the crime would go up, its just the culture+ other reasons unknown to me.
One reason firearms are so valued in the US is that the nation was founded on them, and important in the development(settling the west and whatnot) So the notion of firearms for the people was an important issue, the founders where very afraid of government getting all powerful and wanted the people to have recourse. Whereas your typical european country has been established for quite some time and had no major need for civilian gun ownership.
There are many points in owning a gun besides protection. I like many others enjoy the sport of it, you play soccer or videogames I shoot clay pigeons, and targets some like to hunt, some do need it for protection, some just like to collect them.

Half of me, thinks the amount of US guns is ridiculous. The other half thinks gun are cool and no ones gonna take my civil liberties away when I have a .50cal. I like to stick to the former, as the latter is a paranoid child.

Agreed guns I believe can deter oppression(though I'm sure to be labeled as a whacko for that statement, some may trust their government but I don't. As Vladimir Lenin said: "One man with a gun can control 100 without one.

I don't want it to get easier to get guns on my country (spain) because most people are stupid and I don't like the idea of someone like the one who made this comment having a gun and being around me or my beloved ones.

protection, HA! if nobody has guns we can stab, kick or strangle each other (ending up in minor injuries some bones broken and little to no deaths) but if we all easily have guns we may end up, i don't know... shooting each other? (ending up in lots of people dead or lots of serious wounds which will cost lots of money to the state to heal which will raise MY taxes).

America's thing with weapons and murder is this: weapon seller sees the opportunity to get money from you by selling you(you=everybody) a weapon, he tells you that it will protect you while selling it also to your potential attackers. this way your attacker/s and you (meaning you AND your family and friends) will most probably be in same conditions = probably dead or in pain for the rest of your "safe" lives. But the happy side of the story is that the (so much more intelligent) seller is going to get very wealthy while the government does nothing to stop it (to stop killing machines from being around me all the time) because people are stuck so deep in their shit that they would rise in anger (thick and obese anger but anger nonetheless) if somebody took out their beloved murdering "security".

Also about the government taking all the power... please... they already have it and you do nothing about it, for god's sake you're afraid of the government. You...no...WE FUCKING OUTNUMBER THEM, ASSHOLE!! WHY DON'T YOU HAVE FREE HEALTH CARE AND COLLEGE EDUCATION LIKE THE FUCKING REST OF THE EARTH?! WHY DON'T YOU HAVE ANY PRIVACY FOR HE SAKE OF THE "GHOST TALE" THAT IS TERRORISM?! WHY DON'T YOU TRY TO STOP BEING SO PROUD OF YOUR COUNTRY AND REALIZE IT'S THE MOST UNSECURE, MOST POOR(people wise), MOST IGNORANT, LAZY, TOXIC AND USER-UNFRIENDLY IN THE WHOLE FREAKING GLOBE(aside from china, except for the lazy part)!?

Get up, learn something from the French... cut some heads that are begging to be cut and make government shake in terror whenever they piss people. If after all that you are still willingly giving guns to everybody (cops and thieves alike), you can say that at least you chose it.

Big part of this message applies also to my not-so-beloved country, the beautiful (yet somehow americanizating when conservators on power and europeizating when good people in charge) spain.

 

[Specter_]

i wouldn't care if every last mental retard in my country had a gun as long as every last mental retard with a gun had someone responsible walking behind them, keeping the loud end of another gun aimed at the retards head

but since that is a less-than-ideal, very expensive and probably very messy solution i'm quite happy with the fact that private guns are almost not existing (ignoring hunters of course, which would lead me to a lenghty post about the stupid and totally retarded laws governing their behaviour) in my country

?:

Also about the government taking all the power... please... they already have it and you do nothing about it, for god's sake you're afraid of the government.

well said

 

[JRslinger]

Someone once said that people fear what they don't understand. I've read a lot of anti gun owner bigotry here. Bigotry is never justified because it is based on ignorance. Some people say every gun owner is a potential murderer. This is like saying that every muslim is a potential terrorist. Very unfair and predjudiced.


Think about this for a moment. The regions in America with the highest gun ownership are the rural ones. They are also the safest.

In my experience I've learned that it's best to look at both sides of an argument with an open mind before choosing one. In this case the pro-gun side is more logical to me for reasons stated in my last post.

 

[Goatlemon]

MosinMatt has the right idea.

Bigotry is never justified because it is based on ignorance.

One thing the limeys or Skippys dont understand...

Skippy, get off your high horse

Skippy...
Face it, limey.

Ok Skippy. I will let you live in your fantasy.

I guess to the Anglo pilferers, people are not supposed to look out for each other.

I know. Limeys are not allowed to defend themselves. Enjoy your police state.

They best thing to do, is just cull them out of the population. Once the hiphop gangsta culture is dead, there will be peace.

Are limeys that damn stupid?...Also. yes I am serious. Gang bangers need to be eradicated. Along with Chavs.

Dang skippy. DOn't know much about nuthin' do ya?...That is what freedom is about. unlike the prison colony you live in, we have freedom.

PS: Becareful of the dingos. They'll eat yo baby.

Brown shirts? Wait until next year When Obama gets his private police force that is as well funded as the military to "protect" domestic soil. He said it with his own mouth. Sounds like Brown shirts to me. Probably be his Blank Panther friends.

damn anglo pilferers. I can see why they support criminals all the time.

 

[BonsaiK]

I'm okay with all of you having guns except mosinmatt.

 

[spuddyt]

all that goatlemon needs to add now is "obvious troll is obvious"

 

[JRslinger]

Ok Goatlemon, you've correctly pointed out MosinMatt's bigotry. I only said he has the right idea in regards to gang cultures and gun violence.

This is the anti-gun bigotry I had in mind.

You can talk about freedom all you want but very few people have the temperance, responsibility and empathy to be given the power of life and death over someone else.

About 80 million law abiding gun owners might disagree with this.

Most people are morons. And you want them to have guns?

Maybe if the yanks decided to mass migrate to Australia then I would maybe want a gun for protection from the yanks and their gun totting ways

Correction: If the gang bangers and thug-life types migrate to Australia you'd have an increase in violent crime.

We don't feel the need to kill people recklessly. So, I prefer my neighbours unarmed.

This guy is projecting sociopathy onto his neighbors. Most likely unjustified. Most murders happen where gang cultures are strong.

Only as self-defense against the trigger happy yankees and other FPS-tards.

Who's trigger happy? The violent criminals in the ghettos, or the millions of law abiding gun owners like myself?

I'd like the people who are unfamiliar with guns to be more open minded about us.

 

[Jinx_Dragon]

I personally understand guns. I don't understand why others can't understand their purpose or their attraction. Yet I also don't understand why real regulations are fought so hard against, the over the top response to any regulations, even ones that will not hinder your ownership but will make you more responsible for what happens with your weapon. Regulations that would require safe storage and training alone would minimise accidental casualties but the NRA and kin fight tooth and nail against such.

Yet I find it disgusting the way the gun is blamed every time there is a murderous action taken by a person who just happened to have access, legal or not, to a firearm. Instead of... I don't know, blaming the damn person or questioning how he got a gun in the first place. I guess it is much easier to blame a tool for the incorrect and illegal actions carried out the person wielding it. Seeing violence is a part of our nature it must hit far to close to home and blaming the tool is a way to distance ourselves from the fact we all have wanted to kill someone.

Well not me, I just don't care enough, but on average we have all wanted someone dead. Being forced to look into ourselves and our own primitive violence is likely too difficult, so we blame something not even remotely human. But that is enough psychoanalyse, I want to tell you all a story:

The law that banned semi automatic rifles down here came about because of a brutal shooting by one insane man who stock piled these weapons and then shot a lot of innocent people. It was a tragic event, one that no one can look back on without some sort of remorse. Yet even as it unfolded the government was quick to blame the rifle being used, and not the actions of the one who wielded the weapon.

This man wasn't just some random person, he was known to the courts as his family had him declared legally insane! He had intense mood swings and was wasting the family fortune with a reckless disregard for the value of a dollar. Yet after being declaired insane, recognised by the courts and well documented in the paper work, guess who got a licence to own these types of fire arms and the means to legally purchase them. Yes, the shooter was a recognised homicidal and suicidal man but the government still gave him the means to own a firearm!

So: Are you surprised our government chose to blame it all on the make of the weapon?

Instead of taking a real chance to tighten up a obviously faulty system they created hysteria to push the blame away from themselves and the man in question, the two places where it should of laid. They where covering their own arses, and by making it such a hot emotional response of a topic they passed a bill that everyone in the government knew wouldn't make the problem go away but would allow them to divert attention away from the fact they where partly to blame. Now they could make a show of doing something, when in reality they only took firearms away from those who where already inclined to use them safely.

The criminal element?

Well now there is a black market, as many gun owners refused to hand over their weapons and that element swooped in to supply the demand that didn't just vanish. I hear news stories enough, know a few people I can talk to if I ever need a rifle and... well I will leave that line of thought there, I don't need a something I said online to come back and haunt myself or my friends. This has led me to understand that banning the weapons didn't magically make them vanish. It just drove the problem underground where there is now ZERO regulations or protections.

Now to leave you with some very wise words:
http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants/2rant-guns.mp3
If you want to stop the violence, you need to stop the hate.

 

[Sgt. Dante]

Not really. Guns hold very little attraction here apart from as tools for those who need them, like farmers.

We find your obsession with them a little creepy, actually.

Seconded.

Guns aren't toys, nor are they cool. They are tools, useful for very few things other than taking life.