To all the Europeans and Aussie's on this forum...

[mosinmatt]

I'm saying it wouldn't have been all lolipops and smiles if she had access to a gun, I'm saying that a once of incident does not justify all children being exposed to guns, most are not able to fire them properly and should not have to deal with the responsibility. It would make far more sense for the parents to have been looking after and, y'know, parenting their kids.

As for where you store your firearms, I think it is far from ideal and even farther from the worst cases I've seen/heard. Yes your gun storage may be reasonable in your circumstance at the moment, but that is not a reasonable level of gun storage for all other people. I wouldn't be impressed if someone with young teenagers or tweens kept firearms that casually stored.

I don't trust people to cook themselves dinner, much less judge what is a safe spot to keep a firearm. If we have a blanket guideline and insist on you owning a gunsafe (we can't force you to use it), then you actually have to think about it before you do something different,. Most people will keep their guns more secure than necissary rather than less. The people who are not gun enthusiasts, and who do not properly understand and respect their guns will simply follow the trend of using the gunsafe, especially for automatic weapons and shotguns (If you have a concealed firearm law I don't really care where you keep your handgun providing it's concealed and out of childrens reach). I really cannot see why so many people seem to think this is out of the question (you are not the first person to argue this with me).

Obviously you didnt read the report. The children were trained in proper handling of firearms. Also, many kids (especially teens) can take care of themselves for an evening. But with Calis laws, they were forced to lock away the only way they could of saved themselves.
Forced gunlocks KILL.
Who are you to say where I can keep my private property? If I want to keep my revolver on the coffee table, I fucking will.

 

[mosinmatt]

But really, you act as if you and most other Americans have their homes broken into weekly and people try to mug them daily, and the only your guns stop society as we know it from collapsing under the weight of lawless "illegals" and "gangsters". Is this true?

Also, how many people have you killed?

Both of these are serious questions and I would appreciate serious answers.

First question isnt serious, so i will ignore it.
Second one: No I havent, hopefully never will. But that isnt really up to me. That is up to the people that wish to harm me or my family.

 

[Booze Zombie]

Obviously you didnt read the report. The children were trained in proper handling of firearms. Also, many kids (especially teens) can take care of themselves for an evening. But with Calis laws, they were forced to lock away the only way they could of saved themselves.
Forced gunlocks KILL.
Who are you to say where I can keep my private property? If I want to keep my revolver on the coffee table, I fucking will.

Forced gunlocks don't kill, people do! Stop contradicting yourself. Did the gunlock kill someone? No? Oh, I guess they don't kill then. Just like you said guns don't kill people!

You do, of course!

 

[Eikoandmog]

If someone really wants a gun, they will be able to get it and that's a fact people seem to forget in a gun control debate. Australian customs is excellent but not bullet-proof. Gun control will even up the odds a little if we meet someone with an illegal firearm. Besides, people are still violent, look at the statistics for stabbings, beatings, etc. I personally wouldn't use one outside of hunting and target shooting. There's really not much paperwork to get a license here anyways.

 

[Brett Alex]

First question isnt serious, so i will ignore it.
Second one: No I havent, hopefully never will. But that isnt really up to me. That is up to the people that wish to harm me or my family.

Let me rephrase then.

How many times have you been mugged, assualted, had your house broken into or otherwise assualted with a weapon/by a criminal?

 

[Goatlemon]

I'm saying it wouldn't have been all lolipops and smiles if she had access to a gun, I'm saying that a once of incident does not justify all children being exposed to guns, most are not able to fire them properly and should not have to deal with the responsibility. It would make far more sense for the parents to have been looking after and, y'know, parenting their kids.

As for where you store your firearms, I think it is far from ideal and even farther from the worst cases I've seen/heard. Yes your gun storage may be reasonable in your circumstance at the moment, but that is not a reasonable level of gun storage for all other people. I wouldn't be impressed if someone with young teenagers or tweens kept firearms that casually stored.

I don't trust people to cook themselves dinner, much less judge what is a safe spot to keep a firearm. If we have a blanket guideline and insist on you owning a gunsafe (we can't force you to use it), then you actually have to think about it before you do something different,. Most people will keep their guns more secure than necissary rather than less. The people who are not gun enthusiasts, and who do not properly understand and respect their guns will simply follow the trend of using the gunsafe, especially for automatic weapons and shotguns (If you have a concealed firearm law I don't really care where you keep your handgun providing it's concealed and out of childrens reach). I really cannot see why so many people seem to think this is out of the question (you are not the first person to argue this with me).

Obviously you didnt read the report. The children were trained in proper handling of firearms. Also, many kids (especially teens) can take care of themselves for an evening. But with Calis laws, they were forced to lock away the only way they could of saved themselves.
Forced gunlocks KILL.
Who are you to say where I can keep my private property? If I want to keep my revolver on the coffee table, I fucking will.

And yet you still want to make this distinction between legal and illegal guns? Forget the safety issue for a moment, if your house is robbed when you're not home all of your guns can be stolen and used illegally.

Remember that point I've been making that the more guns there are the more illegal guns there are? It's people who don't store their guns correctly that are one of the reasons for that.

EDIT:

Obviously you didnt read the report. The children were trained in proper handling of firearms. Also, many kids (especially teens) can take care of themselves for an evening. But with Calis laws, they were forced to lock away the only way they could of saved themselves.
Forced gunlocks KILL.
Who are you to say where I can keep my private property? If I want to keep my revolver on the coffee table, I fucking will.

Forced gunlocks don't kill, people do! Stop contradicting yourself. Did the gunlock kill someone? No? Oh, I guess they don't kill then. Just like you said guns don't kill people!

You do, of course!

Self ownage for the win. I salute you Mr. Zombie.

 

[The Wooster]

I love guns. I love firing guns. I love looking at guns. I think they're wonderful little bits of engineering (some of them). Sleek, elegant, effective and very very cool.

I also think anyone who doesn't live in a fucking shack surrounded by bears and cougars doesn't need one.

Also I love this "I'm gonna shoot sumbody if they's in my house" bullshit. We'll see how long that line of thought holds up when you're looking down at the dead body of a teenager you've just ventilated.

Annoyance aside. Gun control works in the UK. Gun related deaths are down per capita. When was the last time we had a school shooting? That being said that doesn't mean it'd work in the states. Gun culture is so ingrained over there, both in the home and into the legal system, that removing firearms would be a complete horror.

I think a lot of Americans think the same way as a lot of the new guys you see at martial arts classes and what have you. They're always thinking about the 'ten ninjas' situation. Sure I don't want to break someone's arm, I don't want to shoot anybody, but what if I'm attacked by ten ninjas? With Uzis? Then I'm going to have to fuck people up. These people think in the back of their mind that that kind of situation would be awesome. They don't realize that they have to live with the consequences of their actions if they were perfectly legal. There was a great article on a conservative website not long ago about the personal cost of carrying a knife and having to use it, even in a situation where it was entirely justified. Anybody who wants to carry a knife or gun shouldn't be allowed to. Anybody who needs to should.

 

[mosinmatt]

I love guns. I love firing guns. I love looking at guns. I think they're wonderful little bits of engineering (some of them). Sleek, elegant, effective and very very cool.

I also think anyone who doesn't live in a fucking shack surrounded by bears and cougars doesn't need one.

Also I love this "I'm gonna shoot sumbody if they's in my house" bullshit. We'll see how long that line of thought holds up when you're looking down at the dead body of a teenager you've just ventilated.

Moral of the story. Dont break into houses, or you might get shot.
Seems like good crime deterent. It worked for Flordia

 

[Dys]

I'm saying it wouldn't have been all lolipops and smiles if she had access to a gun, I'm saying that a once of incident does not justify all children being exposed to guns, most are not able to fire them properly and should not have to deal with the responsibility. It would make far more sense for the parents to have been looking after and, y'know, parenting their kids.

As for where you store your firearms, I think it is far from ideal and even farther from the worst cases I've seen/heard. Yes your gun storage may be reasonable in your circumstance at the moment, but that is not a reasonable level of gun storage for all other people. I wouldn't be impressed if someone with young teenagers or tweens kept firearms that casually stored.

I don't trust people to cook themselves dinner, much less judge what is a safe spot to keep a firearm. If we have a blanket guideline and insist on you owning a gunsafe (we can't force you to use it), then you actually have to think about it before you do something different,. Most people will keep their guns more secure than necissary rather than less. The people who are not gun enthusiasts, and who do not properly understand and respect their guns will simply follow the trend of using the gunsafe, especially for automatic weapons and shotguns (If you have a concealed firearm law I don't really care where you keep your handgun providing it's concealed and out of childrens reach). I really cannot see why so many people seem to think this is out of the question (you are not the first person to argue this with me).

Obviously you didnt read the report. The children were trained in proper handling of firearms. Also, many kids (especially teens) can take care of themselves for an evening. But with Calis laws, they were forced to lock away the only way they could of saved themselves.
Forced gunlocks KILL.
Who are you to say where I can keep my private property? If I want to keep my revolver on the coffee table, I fucking will.

Go nuts, but if I had my way, you would have to own a gun safe (I can't control whether you use it or not).
Just because those kids in the example know how to use firearms does not mean all kids can.
Just becuase your kids know how to use firearms does not mean all kids can.
I don't really know you or your kids, so I can hardly judge if in your circumstance your kids are responsibly and mature enough to be trusted around firearms, But as a general statement children, especially in their early teens, are a group of people I generally distrust with tools that can kill people. You still haven't responded to my point about the parents, where were they in all this? I haven't read that story in the link your provided earlier, I have no clue how to find a specific story and it is a lengthy document. I'm reading parts that seem interesting.

Think of a gunsafe like a seatbelt. If you buy a car it has seatbelts, it's up to you whether you use them or not. It's up to you if you trust your kids to drive around in your car on private property, but out in the real world they cannot drive on roads. If you want to keep your guns laying around in such a way that they are easily accessable, that is your choice and I obviously cannot stop you doing this. However if people were better educated and better understand the seemingly pointless risks generally associated with leaving loaded firearms laying around, I beleive a lot of people would employ the use of a gun safe.

 

[mosinmatt]

However if people were better educated and better understand the seemingly pointless risks generally associated with leaving loaded firearms laying around, I beleive a lot of people would employ the use of a gun safe.

Who said they were loaded?
I have some loaded magazines, and stripper clips...
Would I like a gunsafe? not really. Would I like e cabinet? Sure. A place to display and store my long guns would be nice. But if it is up to you, and i have to have one. You better foot the bill.

 

[The Wooster]

I love guns. I love firing guns. I love looking at guns. I think they're wonderful little bits of engineering (some of them). Sleek, elegant, effective and very very cool.

I also think anyone who doesn't live in a fucking shack surrounded by bears and cougars doesn't need one.

Also I love this "I'm gonna shoot sumbody if they's in my house" bullshit. We'll see how long that line of thought holds up when you're looking down at the dead body of a teenager you've just ventilated.

Moral of the story. Dont break into houses, or you might get shot.
Seems like good crime deterent. It worked for Flordia

Like I say. It's wonderful until you actually kill someone at which point your armchair general logic falters. Have you ever ran over someone's dog or cat? Sure the cat shouldn't have been in the middle of the road, that was a stupid thing to do but you feel bad even if there was no way you could have avoided it. Now imagine the same scenario except you've shot someone's son or daughter in the face.

 

[Dys]

While the alledged numbers they are suggesting are not substancial enough to claim it as a nationwide statistic, I don't understand how a suicide is any less tragic and relevant.

Not trying to take anyones side here anymore, since no one will change my mind and I won't change theirs but someone who wants to commit suicide is gonna do it, gun or not.

I understand the train of thought, but most suicides are done on impulse. Remove the impuslive means of killing yourself and you're far less likely to kill yourself.

 

[mosinmatt]

But those are rare people, normally more suited to active duty in Iraq than criminality.

I'm sorry but did you just say that, someone in the military is just as bad as a murderer? Cause I'm not sure but it did sound like it was along those lines.

sounded like it to me.
probably one of those that thinks soldiers are baby killers.

 

[Lord Krunk]

Nope, and I want it to stay that way.

 

[Booze Zombie]

But those are rare people, normally more suited to active duty in Iraq than criminality.

I'm sorry but did you just say that, someone in the military is just as bad as a murderer? Cause I'm not sure but it did sound like it was along those lines.

No, I actually said that psychopaths make better soldiers than criminals, thus they're more likely to be in the army and less likely to kill you in your sleep, thus, you are more violent than almost anyone with enough guts to enter a home that isn't theirs, if you own a gun.

Also, military men do kill... so, they are murderers. But it's not illegal, so why do you care, right?

 

[Brett Alex]

2) Are you really a gun supporter or just an anti-gun nut who decided they'd create a second account with which they could belligerently and stupidly argue the side of gun supporters?

Damn! He's onto me!

Nah, seriously, I reckon if he was gonna do that he'd be even more one sided and offensive.