Transgendered Woman Beat Up In McDonald's; Employees Do Nothing

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mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Appleshampoo said:
If you're getting paid minimum wage in a job you hate, would you step in to help someone? I wouldn't, because I know for a fact I'd be fired for it. It is NOT in your job description to act like security.

But on the other hand, say you did step in and got pretty busted up but helped the person anyway. You think the managers are going to really be happy with you calling in sick the next day? You'd be fired because it's your own fault.

The employees are usually told to stay out of situations like this. The only one who should have stepped in was the manager, because safety is HIS responsibility.

So the employees should not be blamed for doing nothing. Except the one who recorded it, although it depends on his intention. If it was a 'LOLZ LETS PUT IT ON YOUTUBE' then yeah, fire his ass. But if it was a 'I can't step in, but I can get vital evidence on my phone' then give the guy a pat on the back for at least doing SOMETHING.

And if anyone should have stepped in, it should have been one of the customers, since they wouldn't lose their job trying to protect someone.
This. I also find it to be quite bullshit that so many people hear are calling out the employees but not saying a word about all the other customers in the place at the time who also did just as much jack shit as the employees did. At least the one who taped the assault happening can hand the video over to the authorities to be used as evidence to be used at trial, which is a hell of a lot more than almost everyone else in the building at the time did.

Vanguard_Ex said:
It's not about your damn job, that's the point. You don't just help somebody because you're paid to do so, you help somebody because that's what people do; help each other. Especially somebody who's getting their ass beat for being who they are. By the way, I don't get your first point...you wouldn't step in to help somebody on the count of your shitty job you hate, because you might get fired? Surely that's two birds with one stone?
And what's your lecture for all the customers who didn't do anything?
 

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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Kalezian said:
If we are living in a world where people value their low-paying, and quite frankly, shitty jobs over helping someone who is being beaten to death, then stop the planet, I want to get off.


You know what, and its horrible for me to say this, so feel free to rip into this next comment, I wish Vicki didn't come to her aid, how would McDonalds be then?

"McDonalds will give you $1 drinks, but wont save your life." Headlines would of read for a week, maybe a lawsuit or two would of come out of it, seeing as none of the employees even lifted a finger to help.
So you'd rather a person die so the headlines can be a bit worse and the place can get sued? Please do get off the planet at your earliest convenience, thanks.

And again, nobody seems to care that most of the customers did fuck all as well. Sue them too, right? Please.
 

katsumoto03

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Feb 24, 2010
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I'd just like to say something.

Sure, you could (and most likely would) get fired for interfering as an employee there, but isn't it worth it? I find it almost impossible to believe that there were no people who thought that a person's life and safety was more important that a shitty minimum-wage job.

Congratulations, world. You always know how to make me fucking smile.
 

Kerra

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Apr 30, 2011
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Therumancer said:
I disagree. Nothing basically grafts women's clothing onto someone who is a transgender and forces them to go around and act on their impulses.
Go and ask my multiple therapists exactly what happens if i dont wear female clothing or not act female, having it compared to someones choice to vocalise their opinions is a real kick in the teeth.

Im not saying that people dont have the right to disagree with my lifestyle or to hate me for it, its freedom of speech, but i do believe that a few minority groups are in a position where they are in a unique position of not having the choice to hide or show who they are, groups like racial minorities, transpeople, disabled people, etc.

Not trying to look female is NOT an option, alot of transpeople are in a fragile state and have a history of suicidal thoughts or suicide attempts, I myself know i have, and have no doubt that any regression back towards male especially one made out of fear of being who i am, no matter how small would be a devastating emotional blow.

Asserting that a transgirl acting male is the same thing as a supremacist choosing not to vocalise their opinions in public is just ignorance. Please sit down and talk to a transgender person before you try to compare what we deal with to what another group deals with. Ask them how hard it is to already deal with the constant glares and mumbles and reinforcements that most people will refuse to see you as your proper gender, and then ask them how they feel about being compared to white supremacists, who run their mouth off and live as ignorant bigots because they want to and not because it was basically the only option other than taking their own life
 

RoBi3.0

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Warty Bliggens said:
RoBi3.0 said:
Warty Bliggens said:
Why is this thread even here? All it's going to attract are trolls and stupid people saying "that ****** shouldn't have been pretending he was a girl" because that is what 99.9999 percent of the world believes. This thread has no reason to exist. As someone who's transgendered, calling more attention to the hatred that demographic receives is not something that needs to happen. Can't we have a news story about a female-to-male transman saving a kitten from a tree or something?
Ignoring it is the best possible way to insure it will continue. The Civil Rights movement India winning its independence, all happened because people stood up and showed the world the injustice and said enough is enough.

It really changes is going to happen the good and the bad needed to be shown, after all it can't be change if no one knows it is a problem.
It's not that no one knows it is a problem. It's that no one thinks it's a problem. Maybe one out of every million people doesn't consider the transgendered to be disgusting freaks of nature. If I have to be a freak, then I'd rather just sit at home and be a freak without having to hear about what happens to braver men and women than I(Brandon Teena has my sympathies). Women didn't earn their rights in a day, neither did racial minorities, and I think that the world has yet to fully accept gay people who are open about being gay, as opposed to 'faggots in denial' like myself. Call me a coward if you want, but the populous as a whole will never accept me for what I am within my lifetime, no matter how many banners I wave or how many impassioned speeches I make. I'd really rather not waste my time.
No one thought slavery was a problem at one point either, but slowly that was changed. If you don't want to fight your fight that is fine I wont call you a coward, but don't discourage others from fighting it for you.
 

Milo Windby

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ThongBonerstorm said:
what were the employee's to do? you know that when you get hired they tell you if you get involved in any confrontation, no matter the reason, you're fired on the spot. they can't take the risk of someone getting hurt. so if the kids (probably) valued their jobs there was nothing they could do.
Where the heck is this rule? After working at Wendy's and Safeway I have never ever been told about any such rule before... ever...
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Therumancer said:
I have mixed opinions on the subject there are multiple issues here:

When it comes to being a society of spectators, that's a problem with the laws in society more than anything. Whether it's viable for someone to be a good samaritan varies greatly from area to area, and of course on recent legal trends. For example after the famous stabbing of Kitty Genovese there was a lot of loosening of the laws allowing for random people to get involved to stop an act of violence.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitty_Genovese

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect

What those links don't get into is the simple fact that even decades ago when this happened people were concerned that getting involve in a situation like that could get them in trouble. If you stay step in to protect someone, and injure the assailant, you can likely be held responsible for numerous criminal charges, and/or be used by the defendant as an excuse, by claiming you inflamed the incident futher through intervention and thus can be blamed for their action. People being concerned about witnesses, because those people can be called in to testify against you, whether they agree with you or not, simply saying they know you got involved and being able to confirm certain facts from a quick response can land you in a lot of trouble.

We've seen the applicable laws loosened when dealing with good Samaritans, but inevitably as you get further and further away from whatever incident caused that trend, the laws tighten up again.

Like it or not, there are some good reasons for this and a sort of "lesser of two evils" mentality because of how Good Samaritan laws can very much lead to acts of vigilantism, not to mention the valid concern that people WILL overreact to a situation, and committ crimes far worse than what they were stepping in to prevent. After all, if some good Samaritan steps in and stops a guy from hitting his girlfriend and paralyzes him for life in the course of administering a beating while the guy fights back against the intervention, it opens all kinds of questions, and in the end people wind up not wanting to get involved because there is no way of telling how the situation will turn out. Self sacrifice might be a heroic thing, but that's because it's not expected or required, and getting involved as a Good Samaritan might very well BE an act of self sacrifice with the person doing it being sent to jail.

Of course there are other issues involved as well here, such as in domestic abuse cases both of the people involved turning on an outsider who gets involved. A battered wife or girlfriend is not nessicarly going to be thankful towards their apparent savior right then and there. Police run into that problem all the time, and random citizens don't have anywhere near the lattitude that police officers do.

-

The other side of this issue is of course responsibility for one's own behaviors. Someone who embraces an extreme lifestyle, needs to expect an extreme reaction in reaction to their behavior. Minorities of whatever sort need to understand that the majority of people have every right to disapprove of them, and when they do something, to understand their their own desicians can cause a backlash.

Let's change the situation here, by going with another minority group: White Supremicists. Now imagine for a second that some White Supremacist walks into a burger joint and starts insulting minorities. A couple of big black or hispanic guys who had been insulted jump him coming out of the bathroom, and the guy behind the counter records it and puts it up on Youtube.

A lot of the people defending the transgendered person here, would view that situation very differantly, the reason being that they like or support one minority group, but not the other. Both have the right to do what they are doing, but are embracing extreme lifestyles which provoke a substantial number of people, and when they choose to be aggressive in promoting whatever they are into this is a risk they take.

This is not to say that in cases of assault the people attacking them should be absolved of responsibility, however there is such a thing as mitigating factors, and being provoked.

The thing is that given the left wing, politically correct bias in that article, not a lot of attention is being spent on the accusations of the people making the attack. Did this transgender person make unwelcome advances towards a boyfriend? How much did they persist? Was there any words exchanged between the transvestite and the girls BEFORE the ambush that provoked the situation?

All of these things can contribute to the situation, and really for all comments about being a good samaritan they would sure as heck influance whether I'd get involved or just call the police/ambulance to sort out the aftermath. I for example would likely not jump in to defend a white supremacist who provoked a beating after lipping off to minorities. Sure it might be against the law for him to be assaulted, but when you take an extreme position, one has to understand that there is going to be a response when you push it to that kind of degree.

There is also no law saying you have to like a group of people. A fairly prevelant attitude among many people is they don't care about homosexuals and "transgenders" as long as they leave them alone. They might not approve, but feel that it's a lesser of evils compared to what would need to be done to get rid of them so to speak. On the other hand someone flamboyant enough to advertise it openly, and make passes, and scenes about the factor, isn't being "left alone". Like it or not, having limits on tolerance, does not make someone intolerant, anyone can be pushed.

In short, I think minorities with extreme behaviors need to take responsibility for those behaviors and watching themselves. Nobody is going to prevent you from a mode of dress, or speaking your mind, but take responsibility for it, and understand if your a walking aggravating factor, you should be prepared to deal with it. Whether you dress in cross gender clothing, insist on wearing a turban or religions/cultural dress, or tattoo an inverted pentagram with a swatstika in the middle on your forehead, you should expect a reaction when you interact with other people, and should not expect to be able to push their buttons and be absolved from responsibility for provoking them.
This is a point well argued, but I think there's a world of difference between a Transgender: someone who would by and large simply like to be treated with the basic curtsey of a human being and be allowed their human rights and a White Supremacist; who largely exist to spread discord and racism based of severely flawed ideology, some of it co-opted from the Nazi Party.

From a legal standpoint, yes, aggravation and attitudes must be taken into account at all times with everyone. Even our White Supremacist would be able to charge his assailants with assault, even if he had sat there calling them every abusive and cruel name under the sun.

Morally however, I can't compare the two, because even if they both seem to set off the 'wrongness' sensor in my brain at different levels for different reasons: I'll side with the group whose key principals is one of inclusion and equity rather than division and hatred.

Again, yours was a point well argued, if hotly contested.
 

Custard_Angel

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Aug 6, 2009
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I think its a good thing that the McDonalds staff didn't get involved.

Lets face it. People are really lawyer happy these days and if a McDonalds employee intervened in the fight, one of the attackers could easily claim the employee caused some form of injury.

There would be an almighty lawgasm as a frivolous lawsuit is brought against McDonalds who are forced to defend the actions of a staff member.

Blah. Blah. Blah. It happens every day, but its worth mentioning that statistically speaking, the employee would be under 18, and if anything bad occurred in court, that would scar them for life.

At least the actual case before the court is a real assault case and not a frivolous one. At least there will be real justice i.e. what the law is meant to be for.
 

tippy2k2

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I've always kind of wondered how you're supposed to react in these situations (as an employee or even a customer).

Now, think of it this way. I'm a 25 year old male who weights 235 pounds, I'm not exactly a small guy. I have two ladies (Ages 18 and 14) attacking the other person. If I get involved, a few things can happen:

1. My presence alone stops the fight (unlikely I would feel given a "crime of passion" but I'll put it on the board for arguments sake)
2. The girls continue to attack the victim while I just get in the way (heck, probably my best case scenario that's likely to happen)
3. The girls turn on me and attack me

Now my issue here is if #3 happens. I'm a big guy, but I can't stand the argument that I should be able to overpower the girls without hurting them. If I have to hurt them, I'm now a 25 year old guy who just knocked out a 14 and 18 year old girl...yeah....that's probably gonna look bad no matter my justification. Not to mention the fact that even a 14 year old can do some damage, whatever argument you want to make about how I "should" be able to overpower them.

I'd like to think that even with the worst case scenario, I'd step in but we really don't know how we'd act until it happens. I've had a car accident happen right in front of me. First time, froze like a deer caught in the headlights. After I recognized what I did and how I should have reacted, the second car accident I witnessed had me jump into action right away. You don't know how you'll react until shit + fan collide in front of you.
 

RoBi3.0

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Warty Bliggens said:
RoBi3.0 said:
No one thought slavery was a problem at one point either, but slowly that was changed. If you don't want to fight your fight that is fine I wont call you a coward, but don't discourage others from fighting it for you.
If someone wants to go to bat for me and mine, then Brillo-bananas, but do you really think that the internet is a good place to discuss that? Really?
Also, comparing transphobia to slavery is fucking stupid. Nobody has a goddamn chain around my neck.
The discussion has to start some where and the internet is incredibly far reaching so why not?

And I wasn't comparing slavery to transphobia in anyway. I simple stated that slavery was other injustice that the majority didn't have a problem with at one point. Obviously that has changed.
 

Kerra

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lemby117 said:
DefinitelyPsychotic said:
Ellen of Kitten said:
-Drifter- said:
DefinitelyPsychotic said:
Ellen of Kitten said:
DefinitelyPsychotic said:
AverageJoe said:
Risingblade said:
So this is former guy who got beat up by a bunch of girls?
DefinitelyPsychotic said:
Yeah, pretty much.
...and your points are?
That its pretty pathetic a former guy couldn't defend himself from a bunch of teenage girls...
You are incorrect; It's a girl that got beat up by a bunch of teenage girls. It's considered felony assault, and she was pretty heavily thrashed, and blind sided a few times.
No, you are incorrect. If you are born a guy, you are a guy.
End of conversation.

End of conversation? Hardly. I get the feeling this is going to be long, drawn out affair, and it's not going to end well.
Nope. the previous post just above this one has sealed it for him. 99.9% sure.

And it was well worth it!
Can we just have a vote on this.
those in favour of a perme ban for mister phsco say aye. and if you don't want him gone your insane. yeah we got 100% wanting you gone. no suprise

OT: it is terible that nobody stepped in sure but then how did those people know that the teens didn't have a knife that they had not used.
Aye say I
 

D Moness

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Sep 16, 2010
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Therumancer said:
No, but they bother a lot of people. It doesn't matter why they bother them.
So because other people that do not understand transgender people they are so bothered by it they might attack them without any real provocation (and yeah i read the statement she gave).Gives you the right to compare transgender people to a group that does go out of the way to discriminate other just because they are of a different race.

So if because you look at someone else the wrong way they are in their right to kick you into a hospital is just total bs. Since your reasoning says provoked being provoked you should agree with the person trying to beat the crap out of you.

Transgender people are not out there to bother people , people are bothered by something they can not understand. This is NO reason to get violent. Violence is never a solution.
 

Velocity Eleven

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May 20, 2009
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Kerra said:
Therumancer said:
I disagree. Nothing basically grafts women's clothing onto someone who is a transgender and forces them to go around and act on their impulses.
Go and ask my multiple therapists exactly what happens if i dont wear female clothing or not act female, having it compared to someones choice to vocalise their opinions is a real kick in the teeth.

Im not saying that people dont have the right to disagree with my lifestyle or to hate me for it, its freedom of speech, but i do believe that a few minority groups are in a position where they are in a unique position of not having the choice to hide or show who they are, groups like racial minorities, transpeople, disabled people, etc.

Not trying to look female is NOT an option, alot of transpeople are in a fragile state and have a history of suicidal thoughts or suicide attempts, I myself know i have, and have no doubt that any regression back towards male especially one made out of fear of being who i am, no matter how small would be a devastating emotional blow.

Asserting that a transgirl acting male is the same thing as a supremacist choosing not to vocalise their opinions in public is just ignorance. Please sit down and talk to a transgender person before you try to compare what we deal with to what another group deals with. Ask them how hard it is to already deal with the constant glares and mumbles and reinforcements that most people will refuse to see you as your proper gender, and then ask them how they feel about being compared to white supremacists, who run their mouth off and live as ignorant bigots because they want to and not because it was basically the only option other than taking their own life
same again for me... to live as a male is not an option, I cant even conceive the idea of being male... If I cant live as female then it means not having a life
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Aug 22, 2010
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Warty Bliggens said:
RoBi3.0 said:
No one thought slavery was a problem at one point either, but slowly that was changed. If you don't want to fight your fight that is fine I wont call you a coward, but don't discourage others from fighting it for you.
If someone wants to go to bat for me and mine, then Brillo-bananas, but do you really think that the internet is a good place to discuss that? Really?
Also, comparing transphobia to slavery is fucking stupid. Nobody has a goddamn chain around my neck.
Unless you're into that sort of thing :p

I kid of course. While slavery is probably an extreme example to use, perhaps the fight that gained women the right to vote, and the marches and speeches that saw segregation legally end in the United States (and similar movements in other countries such as India and Australia) are valid comparisons.


First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.
A famous statement attributed to Pastor Martin Niemöller

Just saying, you don't have to be front and centre and fight for the rights of others, just make sure you stand up for your own.